Who are the sons of God and the daughters of men

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Waiting on him

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2018
11,674
6,096
113
56
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God drove them out because they lied.

God asked Adam did you eat? He blamed the woman.
God asked the woman did you eat? She blamed the snake.
Neither one of them took responsibity for their own actions.

So God didn't even bother asking the snake he just condemned him on the spot.
God knew what was happening and what would happen.
I think he wanted to know if they would confess their sin, and they didn't, they just passed the ball.

They hid themselves....

Jhn 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

They tried to cover their sins with fig leaves. But fig leaves couldn't save them, papyrus leaves can't save men.

this is interesting.. sincerely I enjoy the questions it gives me something to dig for.
Can you dig it? :D

A Torah scroll may only be written on parchment from the skin of a kosher animal. However, the animal need not necessarily be slaughtered in a ritually acceptable manner. As long as the species is kosher, the parchment may be used for a Torah scroll.

That gives a whole new meaning to what God clothed them with...
so cool
Hugs
Scripture says he drove the man out. It doesn’t mention the woman. I believe it’s implied they became one as Jesus and His Father are one. Jesus says from the beginning He created them as one?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ziggy

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,184
9,752
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Scripture says he drove the man out. It doesn’t mention the woman. I believe it’s implied they became one as Jesus and His Father are one. Jesus says from the beginning He created them as one?
Yeah so if you think about Christ and the church as the husband and the wife...
Consider Israel the wife who was married to God..
which leads back to the garden.
That they two as one flesh should have been married to God, but they as one flesh disobeyed, or in another sense,
had an adulterous affair with what is written as a snake, I see as a false prophet and it's doctrine.

I believe Adam and Eve broke every commandment the moment they ate that fruit.
Go through them 1-10 and see how by just one bite they broke them all.

Did Israel keep God's commandments?
Do we keep Jesus' commandments?

see how this rolls into the same theme over and over?

Do we love God, do we love our neighbors as ourselves?
Would we lay our own lives down for eachother?

Time will tell.

Hugs
 

Waiting on him

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2018
11,674
6,096
113
56
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God drove them out because they lied.

God asked Adam did you eat? He blamed the woman.
God asked the woman did you eat? She blamed the snake.
Neither one of them took responsibity for their own actions.

So God didn't even bother asking the snake he just condemned him on the spot.
God knew what was happening and what would happen.
I think he wanted to know if they would confess their sin, and they didn't, they just passed the ball.

They hid themselves....

Jhn 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

They tried to cover their sins with fig leaves. But fig leaves couldn't save them, papyrus leaves can't save men.

this is interesting.. sincerely I enjoy the questions it gives me something to dig for.
Can you dig it? :D

A Torah scroll may only be written on parchment from the skin of a kosher animal. However, the animal need not necessarily be slaughtered in a ritually acceptable manner. As long as the species is kosher, the parchment may be used for a Torah scroll.

That gives a whole new meaning to what God clothed them with...
so cool
Hugs
Jesus nailed it to the Cross.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ziggy

Waiting on him

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2018
11,674
6,096
113
56
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yeah so if you think about Christ and the church as the husband and the wife...
Consider Israel the wife who was married to God..
which leads back to the garden.
That they two as one flesh should have been married to God, but they as one flesh disobeyed, or in another sense,
had an adulterous affair with what is written as a snake, I see as a false prophet and it's doctrine.

I believe Adam and Eve broke every commandment the moment they ate that fruit.
Go through them 1-10 and see how by just one bite they broke them all.

Did Israel keep God's commandments?
Do we keep Jesus' commandments?

see how this rolls into the same theme over and over?

Do we love God, do we love our neighbors as ourselves?
Would we lay our own lives down for eachother?

Time will tell.

Hugs
The woman will be saved in child bearing, if she remains sober, along with hope and charity etc .,
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ziggy

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
— Genesis 2:17

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
— Genesis 3:5

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
— Genesis 3:22-24

It appears God didn’t wish for them to know the difference between good and evil.
Why
Yeah so if you think about Christ and the church as the husband and the wife...
Consider Israel the wife who was married to God..
which leads back to the garden.
That they two as one flesh should have been married to God, but they as one flesh disobeyed, or in another sense,
had an adulterous affair with what is written as a snake, I see as a false prophet and it's doctrine.

I believe Adam and Eve broke every commandment the moment they ate that fruit.
Go through them 1-10 and see how by just one bite they broke them all.

Did Israel keep God's commandments?
Do we keep Jesus' commandments?

see how this rolls into the same theme over and over?

Do we love God, do we love our neighbors as ourselves?
Would we lay our own lives down for eachother?

Time will tell.

Hugs

Who was the serpent in the Garden?
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,184
9,752
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why


Who was the serpent in the Garden?
I say this all the time and usually get blasted for it.
I believe the thought to do it was in their hearts all along.
They blamed the snake rather than look at their own hearts.

I refer to Job:

Job 31:33
If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:

It was there all along.. I would not know sin, except the law say thou shalt not covet.
They knew no sin until God said, don't eat.

So until God said don't it wasn't sin. Doesn't mean the thought didn't cross their minds.
Hugs
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I say this all the time and usually get blasted for it.
I believe the thought to do it was in their hearts all along.
They blamed the snake rather than look at their own hearts.

I refer to Job:

Job 31:33
If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:

It was there all along.. I would not know sin, except the law say thou shalt not covet.
They knew no sin until God said, don't eat.

So until God said don't it wasn't sin. Doesn't mean the thought didn't cross their minds.
Hugs
As you know, God does not conclude sin upon us for facing temptation or even having the temptation in our thoughts.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
James 1:12-15

It always comes down to what we do with the temptation.
 

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
5,730
2,132
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@CadyandZoe why is knowledge of good and evil a bad thing?
Knowledge of good and evil is not a bad thing. With regard to Adam and Eve, the salient question is, "What did they both learn from their experience?" In Genesis, the verb "to know" means "to experience something or someone in an intimate way.

Or to put it another way, what was the purpose of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil? Why did God place that tree in the middle of the garden?

The tree was set into the garden as a test. It is important to realize that when God tests us, the purpose of the test is so that WE might learn something about OURSELVES. God placed the tree in the middle of the garden as a test so that Adam and Eve might learn something about themselves.

What did Adam and Eve learn about themselves? Each of them came to learn that they were capable of disobedience. They were given a chance to obey; they disobeyed instead.

God does the same thing with us. He tests us so that we might see ourselves the way we truly are.

Comments
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ziggy

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,184
9,752
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
As you know, God does not conclude sin upon us for facing temptation or even having the temptation in our thoughts.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
James 1:12-15

It always comes down to what we do with the temptation.
I don't believe there was anything wrong with the fruit itself.
How can you know good if you don't have something to measure it by?
Problem was.. as is, or can be, that they didn't go to God seeking his instruction of what goos and evil was.
They took it upon themselves to figure out.

So today we look for the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth, and not to lean on our own understanding.
Same fruit, different day.
Hugs
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't believe there was anything wrong with the fruit itself.
How can you know good if you don't have something to measure it by?
Problem was.. as is, or can be, that they didn't go to God seeking his instruction of what goos and evil was.
They took it upon themselves to figure out.

So today we look for the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth, and not to lean on our own understanding.
Same fruit, different day.
Hugs

Excellent

Now what about the serpent in the Garden?
You said you believe it was a false prophet.
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,184
9,752
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Excellent

Now what about the serpent in the Garden?
You said you believe it was a false prophet.
Yeah, I think the story of Adam and Eve have a lot of layers and can represent a lot of things but all in the same concept.

So, there are a lot of passages about false prophets all through the bible. They come with a message of deception.
And those with itching ears listen to them...
2Ti 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Well God said don't eat because if you do you will die. Thats sound doctrine right there.
But who did they listen to? Is the snake a somebody or is it themselves?

The other assumption people make is that only Adam and Eve inhabited Eden. I believe the Bible is the ancestry or family tree of Israel.
The other nations seem somehow to get cut off and are only mentioned here and there, like Esau/Edom and Ishmael... these paths never go into details about their lives their history. So the bible is exclusive to Israel (flesh) until the NT (spirit) is knitted to it.

So let's say there are other nations not recorded in Eden, the closest neighbor is Egypt.
And we know Egypt was dabbling with a lot of pagantry. Idols, they had their own set of laws and rules and gods.

And then you go to the NT and Jesus is calling the Pharisees hypocrites, John is calling them vipers.
So who or what was in the garden with them?

Another thing I think about is the idol of the snake Moses made and put upon a pole. So when they got bit, if they looked to it it would save them.
And we know the meaning of Jesus on the cross.
But let's look backwards.
Why a snake on a pole, like a tree in the garden. Was it an idol they had made and went to for council?

2Ki 1:6
And they said unto him, There came a man up to meet us, and said unto us, Go, turn again unto the king that sent you, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that thou sendest to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron? therefore thou shalt not come down from that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die.

Think about the commandments.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

We don't know the length of time from the 6th day sundown until the Lord returned to the garden.
It could of been a thousand years as a day. In that day, that they would eat, they would die.
So over a passage of time, not knowing where the goodman of the vineyard was... parables..
did they abuse their position, did they take other gods as Aaron had done with the golden calf?

There is a LOT going on in that first and second chapter of Genesis. I don't think we can even see the whole picture,
because there is a little here and a little there like pieces of a puzzle written through the entire bible.

And maybe that one story covers a whole lot of stories, because it is the foundation of man and his ways,
Unlike Christ is the foundation of God and his ways.

There two levels of understanding written in them pages. The carnal and the spiritual. And we are told to rightly divide them.
But we can't rightly divide anything without the Holy Spirit leading us.
And sometimes if he don't think your ready to know, he'll keep you digging until it is.
I'm still digging on a lot of things.

But it keeps me hungry for the word. It keeps me coming back for more.
If we knew everything, why would we need to ask, seek, and find?

It's the digging, thats the work that is a good work, when we take it to the Lord.

Think of when you have a new understanding or learn a new meaning as a sacrificial gift you give to God and say.
I found this! and you give it to him and he either accepts it or rejects it.
If it is rejected we shouldn't get angry like Cain did and slaughter someone else because what you found was vanity.

You keep digging until you find that pearl.


I don't even know if I touched on your question sorry..
I'm just rambling and I got these wings I'm checking out. I feel like I'm flying
:D
I left my pick and shovel on the ground below me and my head is in the clouds!
LOL
Hugs
 

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
5,730
2,132
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You seem to think they were not separated from God. Part of their death punishment was being banned from the Garden. If they were allowed back in it would not just be for food, but also fellowship.
You honestly think that we can become physically separated from God? Physical location or address has no bearing on my relationship with God.

Theologians use the term "separation" to refer to having enmity with God, not a person's address. Whether I am considered an enemy or friend of God depends solely on the state of my heart and my attitude towards Him.

Romans 5:1-2
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

Formerly, we were God's enemies. But now, in Jesus Christ we peace with God.
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yeah, I think the story of Adam and Eve have a lot of layers and can represent a lot of things but all in the same concept.

So, there are a lot of passages about false prophets all through the bible. They come with a message of deception.
And those with itching ears listen to them...
2Ti 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Well God said don't eat because if you do you will die. Thats sound doctrine right there.
But who did they listen to? Is the snake a somebody or is it themselves?

The other assumption people make is that only Adam and Eve inhabited Eden. I believe the Bible is the ancestry or family tree of Israel.
The other nations seem somehow to get cut off and are only mentioned here and there, like Esau/Edom and Ishmael... these paths never go into details about their lives their history. So the bible is exclusive to Israel (flesh) until the NT (spirit) is knitted to it.

So let's say there are other nations not recorded in Eden, the closest neighbor is Egypt.
And we know Egypt was dabbling with a lot of pagantry. Idols, they had their own set of laws and rules and gods.

And then you go to the NT and Jesus is calling the Pharisees hypocrites, John is calling them vipers.
So who or what was in the garden with them?

Another thing I think about is the idol of the snake Moses made and put upon a pole. So when they got bit, if they looked to it it would save them.
And we know the meaning of Jesus on the cross.
But let's look backwards.
Why a snake on a pole, like a tree in the garden. Was it an idol they had made and went to for council?

2Ki 1:6
And they said unto him, There came a man up to meet us, and said unto us, Go, turn again unto the king that sent you, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that thou sendest to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron? therefore thou shalt not come down from that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die.

Think about the commandments.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

We don't know the length of time from the 6th day sundown until the Lord returned to the garden.
It could of been a thousand years as a day. In that day, that they would eat, they would die.
So over a passage of time, not knowing where the goodman of the vineyard was... parables..
did they abuse their position, did they take other gods as Aaron had done with the golden calf?

There is a LOT going on in that first and second chapter of Genesis. I don't think we can even see the whole picture,
because there is a little here and a little there like pieces of a puzzle written through the entire bible.

And maybe that one story covers a whole lot of stories, because it is the foundation of man and his ways,
Unlike Christ is the foundation of God and his ways.

There two levels of understanding written in them pages. The carnal and the spiritual. And we are told to rightly divide them.
But we can't rightly divide anything without the Holy Spirit leading us.
And sometimes if he don't think your ready to know, he'll keep you digging until it is.
I'm still digging on a lot of things.

But it keeps me hungry for the word. It keeps me coming back for more.
If we knew everything, why would we need to ask, seek, and find?

It's the digging, thats the work that is a good work, when we take it to the Lord.

Think of when you have a new understanding or learn a new meaning as a sacrificial gift you give to God and say.
I found this! and you give it to him and he either accepts it or rejects it.
If it is rejected we shouldn't get angry like Cain did and slaughter someone else because what you found was vanity.

You keep digging until you find that pearl.


I don't even know if I touched on your question sorry..
I'm just rambling and I got these wings I'm checking out. I feel like I'm flying
:D
I left my pick and shovel on the ground below me and my head is in the clouds!
LOL
Hugs

What about satan?
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,184
9,752
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What about satan?
Oh Boy.....

I believe Satan is a tool God uses to punish man that have gone out of the way.

I believe Satan is the judgment man uses in his own law, like the man who had his mother, and Paul said to hand him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so the spirit could be saved...
this would mean to me tha the was handed over to the sanhedrin and they probably whipped him 39 times according to the law.

Satan is the adversary or opposite of God. God don't look upon evil, so he send Satan to be his eyes and ears.
God doesn't tempt man, so he sends Satan to test and try and tempt.

Satan plays a big role in God's court. But Satan got too big for his britches and God threw him out.
Like Adam got thrown out of the garden... hmmm

Like King Nebuchadnezzar I think who was abased as an animal and lost his kingdom for awhile.

Now thats another interesting point I'll have to dig on later.. Nebu got to come back after he humbled himself.

Job lost everything because of what? sef-righteousness, pride. But when he humbled himself God gave him back double.

This gets curiouser and curiouser lol

I believe man can be his own Satan,, by decieving himself, tempting himself. Putting himself in places that they know they won't be able to refrain. Like an alcoholic going to the bar.

Satan wears a lot of hats.
But mostly he hangs out with the rich men north of richmond who want to play god over us lowly slaves.


Hugs
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Oh Boy.....

I believe Satan is a tool God uses to punish man that have gone out of the way.

I believe Satan is the judgment man uses in his own law, like the man who had his mother, and Paul said to hand him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so the spirit could be saved...
this would mean to me tha the was handed over to the sanhedrin and they probably whipped him 39 times according to the law.

Satan is the adversary or opposite of God. God don't look upon evil, so he send Satan to be his eyes and ears.
God doesn't tempt man, so he sends Satan to test and try and tempt.

Satan plays a big role in God's court. But Satan got too big for his britches and God threw him out.
Like Adam got thrown out of the garden... hmmm

Like King Nebuchadnezzar I think who was abased as an animal and lost his kingdom for awhile.

Now thats another interesting point I'll have to dig on later.. Nebu got to come back after he humbled himself.

Job lost everything because of what? sef-righteousness, pride. But when he humbled himself God gave him back double.

This gets curiouser and curiouser lol

I believe man can be his own Satan,, by decieving himself, tempting himself. Putting himself in places that they know they won't be able to refrain. Like an alcoholic going to the bar.

Satan wears a lot of hats.
But mostly he hangs out with the rich men north of richmond who want to play god over us lowly slaves.


Hugs
Do you suppose that satan was in the serpent that tempted Eve?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ziggy

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,184
9,752
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do you suppose that satan was in the serpent that tempted Eve?
ok, I'm going to put this into another scenerio...

1Ki 22:19
And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
1Ki 22:20
And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
1Ki 22:21
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1Ki 22:22
And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
1Ki 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Now we know in Job that even Satan comes before the throne. Satan can't do anything unless God gives him permission.

So rewording here..
And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Asam to eat of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, so that he may die and I may raise him in the last day?

And Satan came forward and said, I will go forth and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of the snake.

And God said Go ahead.

But remember, it was God that gave them the truth to begin with. They had a choice.
But I believe God knew because otherwise why would there be a need for redemption.
I believe that while there was no commandment to eat, they was frolicking and doing whatever and they had no shame.

When time was up and they had to face the music, God sent the serpent with a lying spirit to tempt them.


That's what I'm thinking..
Hugs