Who Created or Made a Sin Nature?

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JunChosen

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I believe God gave us a new nature when we are born again and that this is what the apostle Paul taught. Then where did this idea come from that we are still sinners by nature, and that the spirit of Christ makes our flesh spiritual

When first we became born again only in our mind or soul, spirit essence have we been saved and not in our flesh. Paul speaks of this in Romans Chapter 7. However, there are those wo will tell you that Romans 7 speaking of the old covenant.

Before we became saved, when we commit sin, both in our body and in our mind there was no conflict. In fact, in our flesh and mind we were in one accord or agreement. But when we became born again, only in our mind, or soul, or spirit essence have we become saved not in our flesh. The proof of this can be found in 2 Co. 5:8. IOW, when a believer dies he goes to be with the Lord but his flesh returns to the dust until Christ raises it up on the last day.

So at the meantime while we are still on this earth our flesh will continue to lust after sin. I suggest you read Romans Chapter 7. I hope this helps.

To God Be The Glory
 

Peterlag

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When first we became born again only in our mind or soul, spirit essence have we been saved and not in our flesh. Paul speaks of this in Romans Chapter 7. However, there are those wo will tell you that Romans 7 speaking of the old covenant.

Before we became saved, when we commit sin, both in our body and in our mind there was no conflict. In fact, in our flesh and mind we were in one accord or agreement. But when we became born again, only in our mind, or soul, or spirit essence have we become saved not in our flesh. The proof of this can be found in 2 Co. 5:8. IOW, when a believer dies he goes to be with the Lord but his flesh returns to the dust until Christ raises it up on the last day.

So at the meantime while we are still on this earth our flesh will continue to lust after sin. I suggest you read Romans Chapter 7. I hope this helps.

To God Be The Glory

Every single person I know has told me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands.
 

robert derrick

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Not quite. Death has NOT passed upon all men by sinning, but by the sin of one man, Adam and can be seen by your Scripture reference below:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by (Adam's) sin; and so death passed upon all men (including babies), for that all (without exception) have sinned.

You insert (Adam's) into the Scripture, to make it appear that death passes upon all men, at birth, and by Adam's sinning. It negates the Scripture that death only passes upon all men, because they themselves sin, even as Adam did.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, Sin entered into the world by one man sinning. Not into all men that one man's sin. and death by sin; Death passed upon any man by sinning. and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. and so death still passes upon all men, because they also sin like that first man.

This is called reading distinctly what is written, and giving the simple sense of it.
Your doctrine of death passing upon all men, for all have sinned by being made and born of Adam's sin, is obviously false.

Christ is not the maker of anything sinful, including the flesh of man, neither does He tempt all men to sin from the womb by doing so. That false doctrine is condemned in James 1:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

Including babies as per Psalms 58.

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Babies don't speak anything from the womb, but only as they grow to childhood, where the learn to speak the truth or lies.

The Jewish fable that Jeremiah spoke in prophecy from the womb, is of course as the children's fables of Aesop, which are innocent enough. But suggesting Scripture teaches wicked babes speak lies from the womb, only shows how far false teachers will go to speak their own lies.

If all babes are made wickedly in the womb according to the flesh, and so go astray and speak lies from the womb, then so did Jesus, since He was also made of the natural seed of David with the flesh of Mary's womb:

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.

This Scripture simply says that Jesus' body was made of the same mortal flesh and seed of all men from Adam, by way of Noah, Abraham, Jacob, and David.

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.

Let me tell you a mystery. Jesus who is God Himself had to come to earth BECAUSE it was man who sinned, so man needed another man (Jesus) to save him from the wrath that is to come for "The wages of sin is death."

Yes, that mystery has been made known to the all men, and especially His church, from the beginning after His resurrection. You repeated it accurately. Congratulations.

And, Jesus did not come to save all living creatures. Only His people. LOL Matthew 1:21

Never heard that one, but thanks. Maybe you can explain who teaches that and how. It's always interesting to see how man comes up with false doctrine by twisting of Scripture, or inserting (Adam's) name into it, where it doesn't belong.


Please, I urge you to read Scripture and by the leading and guidance of the Holy Spirit

Dittoes.

The true Gospel have been manifested to you by @PinSeeker and myself. There is now no excuse:

I've heard your gospel before. No thanks.

And, unless you have some new twist to it, that I haven't yet seen, then I won't bother correcting it anymore with you.
 

JunChosen

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And, unless you have some new twist to it, that I haven't yet seen, then I won't bother correcting it anymore with you

MOI??? Once a heretic always a heretic. You guyz will die in your sins if you don;t believe Jesus is God!!! But be of good cheer, today is still the day of salvation.

It flabbergasts me the reason why you people can't believe that there are three distinct separate persons in the Godhead, Scripture tells us that this is so unless you folks don't believe that 2 Corinthians 13:14 is NOT Scripture, which reads:
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all, Amen."

If you can't see this part of Scripture then you are spiritually blind!

To God Be The Glory
 

robert derrick

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MOI??? Once a heretic always a heretic. You guyz will die in your sins if you don;t believe Jesus is God!!! But be of good cheer, today is still the day of salvation.

It flabbergasts me the reason why you people can't believe that there are three distinct separate persons in the Godhead, Scripture tells us that this is so unless you folks don't believe that 2 Corinthians 13:14 is NOT Scripture, which reads:
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all, Amen."

If you can't see this part of Scripture then you are spiritually blind!

To God Be The Glory
So, you've decided to just play games now. I'm not interested.
 

Wrangler

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It flabbergasts me the reason why you people can't believe that there are three distinct separate persons in the Godhead, Scripture tells us that this is so unless you folks don't believe that 2 Corinthians 13:14 is NOT Scripture
Woah! If Scripture were to reference, Moe, Larry and Curly, it does not mean they are all god.

Of course, 2 Corinthians 13:14 is Scripture but it is not a trinity statement; it does not say something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. If there were such a verse, it would be the most quoted verse in Scripture by those who claim one’s salvation depends on believing it. The concept of the trinity is so important that in 66 books, it is not mentioned once!

By contrast, there are verses that say only the Father (singular) is God, we are only to give glory to him (singular) and have no other god (including the trinity god) before him (singular). Jesus said he has a God who is the only true God. Why is that not good enough for you?
 

Jack

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Yes they do if they have not been saved in eternity past, before the foundation of the world!

Tell me, "Does a baby rattlesnake not as poisonous as it's father???

To God Be The Glory
I think those who believe babies go to Hell are the ones who will go to Hell.
 

PinSeeker

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I think those who believe babies go to Hell are the ones who will go to Hell.
I don't think, Jack, that Jun ~ or any other like-minded individual ~ thinks that all babies go to Hell. What I understand him (or her?) to be saying (and I agree) is that not all babies are members of God's elect. Now, we can't verify or refute that (more on that in a moment), because God's Word says nothing to indicate one way or the other. All we really know, both from the Old Testament and the New, is that God has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and compassion on whom He will have compassion. Paul, in speaking of God's elect, wrote this very thing in Romans 9:15 ~ referring to what Moses, who quoted God, wrote in Exodus 33:19, that "I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy." There is no age "floor" at which this happens or does not happen. Some He has mercy and compassion on, and some He does not, and as Creator, that is His prerogative ~ regardless of age. This is His purpose ~ God's purpose, regardless of whether we think it's "fair" or not ~ of election.

Now, back to not being able to Scripturally verify or refute that not all babies are members of God's elect... or even that they are... I think the silence on that is deafening. God extends His grace and mercy to some, and to others He does not. Regardless of age.

Grace and peace to you, Jack.
 

PinSeeker

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PinSeeker said: I don't think, Jack, that Jun ~ or any other like-minded individual ~ thinks that all babies go to Hell.​

You think wrong. She admitted it.
Okay, fine, I didn't know he she actually said that, but I really don't care. Yes, if he/she believes all babies go to Hell, he/she is wrong. However... she said, "Yes they do if they have not been saved in eternity past, before the foundation of the world!" So she put a qualifier on there, meaning there is a certain condition in which that baby will not go to Hell, right, Jack? And by saying, "if they have not been saved in eternity past, before the foundation of the world," Jack, she is saying, "if they are not members of God's elect, will go to Hell." And, Jack, if that is in fact the distinction she's making, then she's right.

As for you... I mean, certainly, I'm not assigning this to you, much less condemning you for it, but if you suppose all babies go to Heaven, then I would posit that you are wrong.

Dude. Ease up. :)

Grace and peace to you.
 
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Jack

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Okay, fine, I didn't know he she actually said that, but I really don't care. Yes, if he/she believes all babies go to Hell, he/she is wrong. However... she said, "Yes they do if they have not been saved in eternity past, before the foundation of the world!" So she put a qualifier on there, meaning there is a certain condition in which that baby will not go to Hell, right, Jack? And by saying, "if they have not been saved in eternity past, before the foundation of the world," Jack, she is saying, "if they are not members of God's elect, will go to Hell." And, Jack, if that is in fact the distinction she's making, then she's right.

As for you... I mean, certainly, I'm not assigning this to you, much less condemning you for it, but if you suppose all babies go to Heaven, then I would posit that you are wrong.

Dude. Ease up. :)

Grace and peace to you.
Ease up on what? Defending the Bible and babies? I have no doubt that anyone who thinks babies will burn in Hell are children of Satan, heading for Hell themselves. How Satanic is it that those who deny the eternal Hell fire think babies will burn in Hell.
 
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Jack

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Yes they do if they have not been saved in eternity past, before the foundation of the world!

Tell me, "Does a baby rattlesnake not as poisonous as it's father???

To God Be The Glory
So tell us JunChosen, does Kingdom Hall teach that God will burn babies alive?
 

PinSeeker

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Ease up on what?
It's just conversation, Jack. In answer to your question here, you're whole demeanor. Ease up on that. :)

Defending the Bible and babies?
Wow.

I have no doubt that anyone who thinks babies will burn in Hell are children of Satan, heading for Hell themselves.
Do you see the heart as God does, Jack?

How Satanic is it that those who deny the eternal Hell fire think babies will burn in Hell.
I mean, Jack, people may be wrong about this or that, but it is not necessarily "Satanic." My goodness.

So, Kingdom Hall... do you think JunChosen is a Jehovah's Witness? It looks like he/she believes in the triune-ness of God, and regarding eternity does not believe in annihilation. Both of those would be disqualifiers for any prospective Jehovah's Witness... :)

And just between you and me, we should talk about this "burning alive" thing... :)

Grace and peace to you.
 

Jack

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It's just conversation, Jack. In answer to your question here, you're whole demeanor. Ease up on that. :)

Wow.
If you don't see something seriously wrong with saying God burns babies in Hell, you need help.
Do you see the heart as God does, Jack?
Never said nor implied any such thing.
I mean, Jack, people may be wrong about this or that, but it is not necessarily "Satanic." My goodness.
Like I said, "If you don't see something seriously wrong with saying God burns babies in Hell, you need help."
So, Kingdom Hall... do you think JunChosen is a Jehovah's Witness? It looks like he/she believes in the triune-ness of God, and regarding eternity does not believe in annihilation. Both of those would be disqualifiers for any prospective Jehovah's Witness... :)
Why don't you ask JunChosen instead of making presumptions?
And just between you and me, we should talk about this "burning alive" thing... :)

Grace and peace to you.
So let's talk about it.
 

JunChosen

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I think those who believe babies go to Hell are the ones who will go to Hell.

Firstly, I didn't say that babies go to hell when they die. God said it in
1 Corinthians 15:22: "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." The first word "all" means "each and every" Obviously, the second word "all" cannot mean the same, otherwise the verse will not make sense. I thought you knew of the verse above.

You think wrong. She admitted it.
Sorry, I'm a male and I've NEVER admitted to all babies going to hell except those who are unsaved. This is a terrible excuse for people who can't read posts, let alone read scriptures.

So tell us JunChosen, does Kingdom Hall teach that God will burn babies alive?
If they're found unsaved, yes! I don't know what Kingdom Hall teaches, or are you accusing me of being a JW? Haven't you learned your lesson? Ask???!!!

To God Be The Glory
 

Jack

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Firstly, I didn't say that babies go to hell when they die. God said it in
1 Corinthians 15:22: "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." The first word "all" means "each and every" Obviously, the second word "all" cannot mean the same, otherwise the verse will not make sense. I thought you knew of the verse above.
Did you really say that God said babies go to Hell???
Sorry, I'm a male and I've NEVER admitted to all babies going to hell except those who are unsaved. This is a terrible excuse for people who can't read posts, let alone read scriptures.


If they're found unsaved, yes! I don't know what Kingdom Hall teaches, or are you accusing me of being a JW? Haven't you learned your lesson? Ask???!!!

To God Be The Glory
Unsaved babies? How Satanic!
 

JunChosen

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Unsaved babies? How Satanic!
Apparently we serve two different gods! You serve a god that you've created in your mind whereas, I serve the God of the Bible. My Shepherd knows who I am and I know, and listen, and I follow, and believe Him.

If God shows me in Psalms 58 that babies are wicked and estranged from the womb, who am I to argue with Him? But there are many who does, apparently they think they know more than God! Go figure!.... ha, ha, ha.... (Psalms 2:2-4).

Again,,,,read my lips....study and ponder the words written in Psa, 58:3 and don't be such a stiff-necked.

To God Be The Glory
 
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theefaith

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People keep trying to tell how a sin nature was put into man, with a process for which man is now born with it.

But no one has ever said who did so. Until we have a creator and maker of something new, then there is no such thing that actually exists.

Except in the imagination of people.

the sin nature was caused by the fall of man!

the lower carnal passions are no longer subject to the intellect and will!
Man is predisposed to sin, pride and the other deadly sins!

Christ redeemed himself a but does not restore us completely in this life so prayer and suffering are the remedy for the sin nature.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
 

atpollard

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People keep trying to tell how a sin nature was put into man, with a process for which man is now born with it.

But no one has ever said who did so. Until we have a creator and maker of something new, then there is no such thing that actually exists.

Except in the imagination of people.
I nominate YOU.
You are now responsible for the way we all are.
Are you satisfied now? :)

Jesus is still the only one that can FIX what is broken. :joyful:
 

Jack

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Apparently we serve two different gods! You serve a god that you've created in your mind whereas, I serve the God of the Bible. My Shepherd knows who I am and I know, and listen, and I follow, and believe Him.

If God shows me in Psalms 58 that babies are wicked and estranged from the womb, who am I to argue with Him? But there are many who does, apparently they think they know more than God! Go figure!.... ha, ha, ha.... (Psalms 2:2-4).

Again,,,,read my lips....study and ponder the words written in Psa, 58:3 and don't be such a stiff-necked.

To God Be The Glory
"Babies are wicked"? My, oh my, oh my! Are you pro abortion?
 
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