Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?

[CrowCross]

It is obviously a tangible building.
Beyond obvious.

Wow
How tedious.

What's next?
The scroll in Rev 5 is not real either?
The white horses are not really horses in Rev 19?

They believe the thousand year reign really isn't literal.
The beast system isn't a real event or it already happened.

 

[rebuilder 454]

They believe the thousand year reign really isn't literal.
The beast system isn't a real event or it already happened.

Plus amil says the gt is past event.
You can not get more bizarre than that.

But they pose as normal people.
Talk to us as if they agree on some things.
Then start refuting every single sentence.

They are "players".
Here to toy with us and get personal.
Then hopefully their little trashy mess gets someone banned.
Cunning and sick people.

....with TOTALLY DIFFERENT BIBLES.

 

[rebuilder 454]

They believe the thousand year reign really isn't literal.
The beast system isn't a real event or it already happened.

You outta see what they do to the 144,000 Jews.

It is hilarious.

Why????
Because they are ANTISMITES.
Ask one of them about the 144,000.

 

[rwb]

The tribulation when you have a bad day....lose a job, find yourself in the middle of an earthquake, lose a loved one, get bit by a dog.....is not the wrath of God tribulation presented in Revelation.

Where from Scripture can you show the wrath of God as tribulation? The wrath of God shall come upon all the earth after believers have been caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds. Tribulation both great and small come upon faithful saints as we proclaim the gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ, beginning with the first martyr for faith and ending when the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete.

 

[rwb]

Are you saying the bride of Christ has 12 gates? Was 1,380 miles long, high and wide?

As to "brick and mortar"....I would say Jasper and mortar...wouldn't you? It is presented as a physical building. Why couldn't a God who created the world and universe be able to make such a city?

According to the Bible what do the twelve gates with names written thereon, which are names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel represent? Also what/who does the measuring of an hundred forty four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel (human messenger)? The city also has twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb?

 

[rwb]

I was showing you that your statement ..."None will be bodily changed before the hour coming when the last/seventh trumpet sounds"....and using the marriage supper of the Lamb proved you were wrong.

You never did answer my question....will the food simply drop through the spirits and land on the gold floor?

I was showing you how the resurrection of Christ who is the only human to have been bodily resurrected immortal & incorruptible, while clothed in body of flesh & blood just as He was clothed in mortal flesh and blood before His death on the cross. The marriage supper of the Lamb is not physical but spiritual. I typically try not to answer questions that appear to be folly.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where from Scripture can you show the wrath of God as tribulation? The wrath of God shall come upon all the earth after believers have been caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds. Tribulation both great and small come upon faithful saints as we proclaim the gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ, beginning with the first martyr for faith and ending when the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete.

If you need the hyper definition, then you got it backwards.

Because wrath ALWAYS contains within it tribulation.
What the trib vs wrath people need to show, is some deal where "trib"comes from the devil, and "wrath" comes from God.
Which they do regularly....
...and are partially correct, but then take it past what it really is, then take the modified Bible with them into their error.

 

[rwb]

Jesus said "before the flood, normal life, normal activities, half a group is taken, watch and be ready"
So tell it to Jesus. Since you say he is wrong.

It's the fact that things according to all those who are not watching and waiting for Christ shall appear to be like every other day, is the reason for the warning. Why do you think Christ warns of false christs and false prophets showing lying signs and wonders?

Matthew 25:13 (KJV) Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

[CrowCross]

Plus amil says the gt is past event.
You can not get more bizarre than that.

But they pose as normal people.
Talk to us as if they agree on some things.
Then start refuting every single sentence.

They are "players".
Here to toy with us and get personal.
Then hopefully their little trashy mess gets someone banned.
Cunning and sick people.

....with TOTALLY DIFFERENT BIBLES.

I agree....It seems as if they want to face this judgement/wrath described in the book of Revelations...or....say they have no worries as it already happened.

 

[rwb]

If you need the hyper definition, then you got it backwards.

Because wrath ALWAYS contains within it tribulation.
What the trib vs wrath people need to show, is some deal where "trib"comes from the devil, and "wrath" comes from God.
Which they do regularly....
...and are partially correct, but then take it past what it really is, then take the modified Bible with them into their error.

The question asked is where can you prove the wrath of God that shall come upon the whole earth is called tribulation? The devil can only achieve that which God allows, because the devil is not more powerful than God.

 

[CrowCross]

Where from Scripture can you show the wrath of God as tribulation?

10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

The above is from Revelation 3...christians will be kept from the wrath in Rev 3....why? They're not here.

Now, that's not to say those who become christians during the tribulation won't be part of the wrath.

 

[CrowCross]

According to the Bible what do the twelve gates with names written thereon, which are names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel represent? Also what/who does the measuring of an hundred forty four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel (human messenger)? The city also has twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb?

What are you trying to say?

How do you measure a symbol?

 

[CrowCross]

I was showing you how the resurrection of Christ who is the only human to have been bodily resurrected immortal & incorruptible, while clothed in body of flesh & blood just as He was clothed in mortal flesh and blood before His death on the cross. The marriage supper of the Lamb is not physical but spiritual. I typically try not to answer questions that appear to be folly.

With all due respect I see your symbolic marriage supper of the lamb as folly.

Perhaps you can explain with biblical references why the symbology is? Remember, biblical support rather than your speculation.

 

[CrowCross]

It's the fact that things according to all those who are not watching and waiting for Christ shall appear to be like every other day, is the reason for the warning. Why do you think Christ warns of false christs and false prophets showing lying signs and wonders?

Seriously, are you saying the end of the tribulation when Jesus returns physically will be every other day?

Sorry RWB, but if you can't explain this then you need to retract your speculative view.

 

[rwb]

10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

The above is from Revelation 3...christians will be kept from the wrath in Rev 3....why? They're not here.

Now, that's not to say those who become christians during the tribulation won't be part of the wrath.

The hour of temptation is NOT the wrath of God that shall be poured out upon the whole earth. Christ is giving assurance, here to the church of Philadelphia who have kept His word being kept from temptation (not wrath) that was coming to them from those who call themselves Jews, Christ says are in fact the synagogue of Satan. As long as they remained faithful, God will write upon them the name of God (Christian) "and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem". This too tells us new Jerusalem from above are spiritually called by the name of the holy city.

Revelation 3:10 (KJV) Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 3:11-13 (KJV) Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

[IndianaRob]

We are born again (birthed) through Christ as we hear the gospel of the Kingdom of God and according to grace through faith we believe. It is in that manner that whosoever has been born again are children of heavenly Jerusalem.

The church of Galatia believed there was still merit before God under the Old Law. They had learned otherwise through preaching by Paul. Those who had been under the Law had been redeemed becoming sons according to adoption through the Spirit of Christ. They had gone from being servants to the Law, and heirs of God through faith in Christ.

Galatians 4:5 (KJV) To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Galatians 4:6 (KJV) And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:7 (KJV) Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

For whatever reason some among them believed after having become heirs of God with Christ they should turn again to the Law that brought them under bondage. After having been born again through Paul's preaching, he thought it necessary for them to once again recall the travail or difficulties that come when faithfully preaching the gospel to them, now it seemed he needed to once again preach the gospel until it became apparent that Christ was formed in them. IOW proclaiming to have been born again and an heir of God with Christ, but turning back to the Law, shows their profession of faith did not outwardly show them as a new creation that is Christ like through His Spirit within them.

Galatians 4:9 (KJV) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Galatians 4:19 (KJV) My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

As you said, those Galatians were saved believers — yet Paul is still travailing to birth Christ in them, which means Christ was not yet formed in them at that point.

It goes back to the discussion you and I had a while back where I said born again and saved are two different things.

 

[rwb]

With all due respect I see your symbolic marriage supper of the lamb as folly.

Perhaps you can explain with biblical references why the symbology is? Remember, biblical support rather than your speculation.

That's because you lack understanding of the things of God. Only the Spirit can reveal these things to you.

1 Corinthians 2:11-14 (KJV) For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[rwb]

Seriously, are you saying the end of the tribulation when Jesus returns physically will be every other day?

Sorry RWB, but if you can't explain this then you need to retract your speculative view.

Yes, it will be for all who are not waiting and watching for Him to return, who are living in darkness and unbelief.

1 Thessalonians 5:2-5 (KJV) For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

 

[rwb]

As you said, those Galatians were saved believers — yet Paul is still travailing to birth Christ in them, which means Christ was not yet formed in them at that point.

It goes back to the discussion you and I had a while back where I said born again and saved are two different things.

Apparently, like many professing to be born again, they have a head knowledge without having a new heart/Spirit to be a new creation like Christ.

To be born again means to be eternally saved.

 

[CrowCross]

Revelation 3:10 (KJV) Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

This time of wrath, trial, testing, temptation comes upon the whole world...not just the church of Philadelphia.

This quote comes from the book of Revelation...which presents this time of trial or wrath.