Who is “the new Moses”?

[Matthias]

Not exactly on point but still a powerful vid on Jesus claiming to be the law of Moses.

Not even the truth, as the producers themselves acknowledge.

”According to scripture, Jesus obeys the law of Moses perfectly and fulfills the law completely. But He doesn’t say the He is the law of Moses.”

Did Jesus Say "I am the Law of Moses"? | Angel Studios

Jesus is quoted frequently throughout the New Testament, including many "I am" statements. But did Jesus ever say "I am the law of Moses?"

www.angel.com

 

[Wrangler]

Not even the truth

Oh boy! It’s entertainment!! Did you find the scene entertaining?

 

[Matthias]

Oh boy! It’s entertainment!! Did you find the scene entertaining?

Sure. Truth > entertainment. If interested, see my thread “The Chosen - Godly Truth or Dangerous Fiction?”

 

[Wrangler]

Oh boy! It’s entertainment!! Did you find the scene entertaining?

Sure.

Great! Good to hear. Did you ever read the producers advise people to read the actual Gospel?

 

[amigo de christo]

It’s not uncommon to hear theologians refer to Jesus as “the new Moses”. Last week actor Jim Caviezel referred to Donald Trump as “the new Moses”.

There are theological and political implications associated with the concept of ”the new Moses.”

I don’t have an issue with referring to Jesus as “the new Moses.” For me, referring to Donald Trump - or anyone else - as “the news Moses” goes too far.

Jesus is “the news Moses” -> how do others feel about that?

Donald Trump (or anyone else) is “the new Moses” -> how do others feel about that?

Its impossible for JESUS to be the new moses . I mean HE EXISTED LONG before MOSES ever did .
Just a real simple reminder .
Before ABRHAM WAS , I AM . BEFORE ANYTHING created was created , JESUS WAS .
SO , yeah he aint the new MOSES .

 

[amigo de christo]

HE is THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT

 

[Matthias]

Its impossible for JESUS to be the new moses . I mean HE EXISTED LONG before MOSES ever did

You believe in literal preexistence. I believe in notional preexistence.

The interesting thing to me is that trinitarians who believe in literal preexistence and unitarians who believe in literal preexistence have taught for nearly 2000 years that Jesus is the new Moses.

.
Just a real simple reminder .
Before ABRHAM WAS , I AM . BEFORE ANYTHING created was created , JESUS WAS .
SO , yeah he aint the new MOSES .

See above.

 

[Matthias]

Great! Good to hear. Did you ever read the producers advise people to read the actual Gospel?

I don’t think I’ve ever read them saying it but I have heard them saying it during television interviews.

Do you by chance happen to remember a comedian whose stage name was Soupy Sales?

When I was a child I thought he was very entertaining. The partial episode I watched of The Chosen reminded me of ol’ Soupy.

A Soupy Sales Jesus might be entertaining but a Soupy Sales Jesus wouldn’t align very well with the description of Jesus of Nazareth preserved for us in scripture.

Let’s continue the discussion of The Chosen in the thread I started on the program.

 

[Matthias]

Back to the new Moses.

Is Jesus or is Jesus not identified in scripture as the prophet like Moses whom God promised to raise up from among the people?

 

[amigo de christo]

You believe in literal preexistence. I believe in notional preexistence.

The interesting thing to me is that trinitarians who believe in literal preexistence and unitarians who believe in literal preexistence have taught for nearly 2000 years that Jesus is the new Moses.




See above.

actually i just believe the bible .

 

[Matthias]

actually i just believe the bible .

Me too! Feel free to laugh. Such assertions get us nowhere.

I just read something yesterday about how claims like that are useless. If I can find it again, I’ll post it.

 

[amigo de christo]

Me too! Feel free to laugh. Such assertions get us nowhere.

I just read something yesterday about how claims like that are useless. If I can find it again, I’ll post it.

Actually you believe your own concepts about the bible .
Example you just wrote earlier about what you call literal verses notional . You are already trying to reason
away the simple things by rationalizing it in your own mind .
As for me . JESUS simply said BEFORE ABRAHAM was I AM.
People often do as you do . Specially if they have been taught of men who had such reasoninings .
Men will always try and find a way around something literal , IF what is said opposes what they believe already to be true .
In other words men often read the bible through a lens of what THEY believed to be true .
And they see the scrips in a way that will back up their own ideals of what they thought the truth was .
Instead of just reading the bible and letting the TRUTH form in them
they go into it with a mind that has determined in part already what truth is .
They then read it in a way that agrees to , conforms to their own ideas . You aint alone either .
I would say in part MOST FOLKS do just that .
As for me , i read it and beleived it as a child and it all comes together more and more in time .
Too many folks went into the bible under pre concieved teachings and ideas of men or ideas they themselves had .
As i stated earlier .

 

[amigo de christo]

example . many read the bible through a universalist mindset . So they see scrips differently
and they will take scrips out of text to support the UNIVERSAL mindset they do believe .
OR OSAS
or Pre trib
or prosperity gospel .
IF we read the bible through the lens of our own carnal desires and beliefs , teachings of men who already twisted it .
We wont be learning TRUTH . only some truths and some lies .
But if we would just return to it and as a child simply believe and just read it with joy in our hearts .
Not for ambitions
Not for agendas
not for self glory or to seem wise .
But just read it so we can learn of GOD , HE GONNA TEACH US . I PROMISE .
JESUS never said lest ye become wise as scholars
rather he said LEST YE BECOME as children .

 

[Matthias]

Actually you believe your own concepts about the bible .
Example you just wrote earlier about what you call literal verses notional . You are already trying to reason
away the simple things by rationalizing it in your own mind .
As for me . JESUS simply said BEFORE ABRAHAM was I AM.
People often do as you do . Specially if they have been taught of men who had such reasoninings

How foolish we are when we convince ourselves that if someone doesn’t believe what we believe then they don’t believe the Bible. We can say it a thousand times and it won’t persuade those holding a different interpretation / understanding of scripture.

Biblical hermeneutics is the tool that helps us understand why others believe what they do about scripture.

.
Men will always try and find a way around something literal , IF what is said opposes what they believe already to be true .
In other words men often read the bible through a lens of what THEY believed to be true .
And they see the scrips in a way that will back up their own ideals of what they thought the truth was .
Instead of just reading the bible and letting the TRUTH form in them
they go into it with a mind that has determined in part already what truth is .
They then read it in a way that agrees to , conforms to their own ideas . You aint alone either .
I would say in part MOST FOLKS do just that .
As for me , i read it and beleived it as a child and it all comes together more and more in time .
Too many folks went into the bible under pre concieved teachings and ideas of men or ideas they themselves had .
As i stated earlier .

I think you’re guilty of doing what you assert those who don’t believe what you believe do. Are you persuaded by that? Certainly not.

 

[Matthias]

I couldn’t convince you in a hundred years that Jesus preexisted as understood in terms of Jewish monotheism. I can discuss it with others who don’t embrace Jewish monotheism - and have - and they will know instantly that interpretation method is the difference. None of them were so foolish as to say that I don’t believe the Bible, nor was I so foolish as to say that they didn’t believe the Bible.

I taught biblical hermeneutics. I know why those who believe in literal preexistence do and why those who believe in notional preexistence do.

You believe in literal preexistence. If you disagree, say so.

“I believe the Bible and you don’t believe what I believe so you don’t believe the Bible” = stupidity.

 

[Matthias]

Back to the new Moses.

Is Jesus or is Jesus not identified in scripture as the prophet like Moses whom God promised to raise up from among the people?

Here is the question that needs to be answered. It is answered, in the Bible.

Method of interpretation isn’t an issue with the question. Those who believe in literal preexistence and those who believe in notional (also known as, ideal) preexistence should easily be able to agree with one another that the NT identifies Jesus as the prophet like Moses.

 

[Matthias]

There isn’t a human being on the face of the earth and taken a reputable course in biblical hermeneutics who hasn’t learned about typology.

 

[Matthias]

I don’t agree with the theology embraced by the linked source, nor do they agree with my theology - yet I’m able to agree with them and they with me in regard to Moses typology.

Moses typology doesn’t originate with them, nor does it originate with me.

9. Typology of Christ | Bible.org

Not only does the Old Testament reveal the coming messiah through prophecy, it also reveals him through typology. Typology refers to historical people, places, objects, or events which foreshadow Christ and his work in the Old Testament. Consider the verses below, which speak of OT typology...

bible.org

 

[Matthias]

I did a quick online search for an organization whose Statement of Faith agrees with the Christianity Board Statement of Faith and disagrees with my Statement of Faith. The first one that came up in the search meets the criteria.

Next. Does this organization publish literature which addresses Moses typology? Yes. Here it is:

21 Proofs that Yeshua is the "Prophet Like Moses" - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry

Moses said, “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers – it is to him you shall listen.” Who could it be?

www.oneforisrael.org

That was easy. I don’t agree with everything they say in this piece but I’m able to agree completely with them that Jesus is the prophet like Moses.

 

[Wrangler]

I couldn’t convince you in a hundred years that Jesus preexisted as understood in terms of Jewish monotheism.

Just for my edification, is your position that Jesus pre-existed as a thought in God’s plan?