Who is Jesus Christ?

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CoreIssue

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This was in response to the question "What happens when a man dies?" But it is totally incorrect. Man is comprised of body, soul, and spirit. Introducing the word "flesh" simply leads to confusion. The soul and spirit are immaterial and imperishable. Therefore physical death is the SEPARATION of the soul and spirit from the body.

The body goes into the grave, but the soul and spirit either go to be with Christ in Heaven (for those who are in Christ), or to Hades (the abode of departed spirits without Christ). So the soul does not go into the ground, and that is the false doctrine of Soul Sleep.

Since Hades is in the lower parts of the earth or the heart of the earth (near the core of the earth, not a pit in the ground) Paradise was never in Hades. Paradise has always been in Heaven (after the Fall), and it called *the Paradise of God*.

I'm not introducing anything. It's already in the Bible.

And we been over the soul and spirit issue more than once. The soul is not eternal spirit is. Soul is your emotions etc. spirit is you.

Go review the definitions again.
 

CoreIssue

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well it's true, you read it.

so all that Father and son as separate persons are out the window.

Yes, the "ALPHA AND OMEGA" is Jesus who is God.

"the First and the Last" is Jesus who is God.

and "the which is, and which was, and which is to come" is JESUS, who is God.

so in Revelation 1:1, it's not two separate PERSON, but the SAME one PERSON "diversified" in flesh.

see, how easy that was?.

PICJAG.

The father never says he is the Alpha and Omega. Only Jesus does.

This was in response to the question "What happens when a man dies?" But it is totally incorrect. Man is comprised of body, soul, and spirit. Introducing the word "flesh" simply leads to confusion. The soul and spirit are immaterial and imperishable. Therefore physical death is the SEPARATION of the soul and spirit from the body.

The body goes into the grave, but the soul and spirit either go to be with Christ in Heaven (for those who are in Christ), or to Hades (the abode of departed spirits without Christ). So the soul does not go into the ground, and that is the false doctrine of Soul Sleep.

Since Hades is in the lower parts of the earth or the heart of the earth (near the core of the earth, not a pit in the ground) Paradise was never in Hades. Paradise has always been in Heaven (after the Fall), and it called *the Paradise of God*.

How could the Old Testament saints ascend from paradise to heaven if they were already there?

Eden, Abraham's bosom in heaven have all been called paradise.

Where did I ever say paradise was in Hades? Never did.

How could the Old Testament saints ascend from paradise to heaven if they were already there?

Revelation 2:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Luke 23:42-43 New International Version (NIV)
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

The Septuagint uses the Greek paradeisos [paravdeiso"] for the garden of Eden in Genesis (called the "garden of God" in Isa 51:3 ; and Ezek 28:13 ).
Paradise Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
 

Marymog

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(Matt. 16:13) "...Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?"

(Matt. 16:15) "...whom say ye that I am?

Peter answered, "...Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

(Matt. 16:17), "...Blessed art thou Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Stranger
He is also, just as he claimed, the bread of life (John 6:35).

Bible study Mary
 

101G

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The father never says he is the Alpha and Omega. Only Jesus does.
are you sure? Alpha in English means "FIRST", and Omega in English means "LAST". this is according to dictionary.com
now, knowing this read Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, and 48:12

which means Jesus is the Father and the son.
PICJAG
 

CoreIssue

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are you sure? Alpha in English means "FIRST", and Omega in English means "LAST".
now, knowing this read Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, and 48:12

PICJAG

By that logic the father had a beginning and is not eternal. Jesus had a beginning.

By that logic the father has an end and is not eternal. But Jesus had an end. He died on the cross.

Only a believer in modalism can make your claim.
 

Enoch111

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How could the Old Testament saints ascend from paradise to heaven if they were already there? Eden, Abraham's bosom in heaven have all been called paradise. Where did I ever say paradise was in Hades? Never did. How could the Old Testament saints ascend from paradise to heaven if they were already there?
Since you said that the OT saints were in Paradise when they were in Sheol/Hades, you said that Paradise was in Hades. But since Paradise was in Heaven (in the New Jerusalem) at that time, they all went to Heaven FROM Sheol/Hades after the resurrection of Christ.
 

Enoch111

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And we been over the soul and spirit issue more than once. The soul is not eternal spirit is. Soul is your emotions etc. spirit is you.
Since every regenerate person has a dead spirit, the soul is *you*. And it is not just emotions but the total person -- mind, will, emotions.
 

CoreIssue

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Since every regenerate person has a dead spirit, the soul is *you*. And it is not just emotions but the total person -- mind, will, emotions.
Where does the Bible say that?

The total person, speaking of us on this earth, is spirit, soul and body/flesh.

Luke 23:46 New International Version (NIV)
46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”a]">[a] When he had said this, he breathed his last.

Psalm 146:4 New International Version (NIV)
4 When their spirit departs, they return to the ground;
on that very day their plans come to nothing.

New International Version
The angel answered me, "These are the four spirits of heaven, going out from standing in the presence of the Lord of the whole world.

Angels are never called souls.

Soul Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

Strong's Number: 4151

Browse Lexicon
Original Word
Word Origin
pneu'ma from (4154)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Pneuma 6:332,876
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pnyoo'-mah Noun Neuter
Definition
  1. the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
    1. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the \\Holy\\ Spirit)
    2. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of \\Truth\\)
    3. never referred to as a depersonalised force
  2. the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
    1. the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
    2. the soul
  3. a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
    1. a life giving spirit
    2. a human soul that has left the body
    3. a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
      1. used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
      2. the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
  4. the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
    1. the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
  5. a movement of air (a gentle blast)
    1. of the wind, hence the wind itself
    2. breath of nostrils or mouth
Strong's Number: 5590

Browse Lexicon
Original Word
Word Origin
yuce from (5594)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Psuche 9:608,1342
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
psoo-khay' Noun Feminine
Definition
  1. breath
    1. the breath of life
      1. the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing 1a
    2. of animals 1a
  2. of men
    1. life
    2. that in which there is life
      1. a living being, a living soul
  3. the soul
    1. the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
    2. the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
    3. the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
 

CoreIssue

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Since you said that the OT saints were in Paradise when they were in Sheol/Hades, you said that Paradise was in Hades. But since Paradise was in Heaven (in the New Jerusalem) at that time, they all went to Heaven FROM Sheol/Hades after the resurrection of Christ.

I never said that.

I said they were in the pit in paradise.

Hell and paradise are two distinct chambers in the pit.

Since the resurrection paradise is empty.

The new Jerusalem didn't exist then.

When Christ ascended he said he went to make a place, the new Jerusalem.

As I've shown before, Christ decended and preached.Then he ascended to heaven with them. So they were not in heaven as you claim.

What possible reason would there be to preach to somebody already in the new Jerusalem in heaven?
 

101G

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By that logic the father had a beginning and is not eternal. Jesus had a beginning.

By that logic the father has an end and is not eternal. But Jesus had an end. He died on the cross.

Only a believer in modalism can make your claim.
first thanks for the reply. second, you ERROR, and here's why. First somply means the first to do something, meaning the ORIGINATOR. see how your Logis, and thinking is flawed. but out of chaos comes oeder. by being the "Originator" he is called "FATHER", meaning he's the a. "CREATOR" and "MAKER" of all things. see the WISDOM of God vs your flawed "logis" of men?.

and then you logically ERRORED by saying "JESUS had a begining". not JESUS, but the flesh he came in had a begining. scripture,
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

so CoreIssue get off the logic, and get wisdom. and with wisdom comes,
Proverbs 4:7 "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding".

How do one get this wisdom? let's check the record,
James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

James 1:6 "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

James 1:7 "For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.


so CoreIssue, JESUS is the First, meaning he's the Father. and he's "EVERLASTING", let's see,
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Who only hath immortality? so where is his begining? get your search lights out. Oh ... I forgot, he made the light to your flashlight..... :D


ps, you said, "Only a believer in modalism can make your claim".
(smile), I claim nothing, but states FACTS..... I leave all claims to you..... :D
PICJAG
 

Stranger

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His soul and flesh will return to the ground.

If Born-again his spirit goes to heaven. Otherwise it goes to hell.

Before the resurrection a believers soul went to paradise, which is off the pit in the ground.

This is true. I asked the question to 101G because he claimed God cannot die. No doubt he doesn't understand death. When man dies, he still lives. Because God the Son became a Man, God can experience death also which is separation from the body.

Stranger
 

CoreIssue

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This is true. I asked the question to 101G because he claimed God cannot die. No doubt he doesn't understand death. When man dies, he still lives. Because God the Son became a Man, God can experience death also which is separation from the body.

Stranger

You do not understand the body, flesh of Jesus Christ was not and is not the second person of the Trinity, his spirit is.

While his flush, his humanity, could die, his spirit could not and cannot.

Son of God refers to his humanity, not his divinity. Same as Adam was the son of God.
 

Stranger

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You do not understand the body, flesh of Jesus Christ was not and is not the second person of the Trinity, his spirit is.

While his flush, his humanity, could die, his spirit could not and cannot.

Son of God refers to his humanity, not his divinity. Same as Adam was the son of God.

Can the spirit of any man die?

Stranger
 

Jun2u

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(Matt. 16:13) "...Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?"

(Matt. 16:15) "...whom say ye that I am?

When speaking of the Godhead none of us really know nor can we understand. God declares He is one God, yet the Bible also declares the Godhead consists of three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

The call to the world by the Father is: “Believe in my Son!”

Believe him in what?

ANSWER

John 8:23-24
23) And he said unto them ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am NOT of this world.
24) I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

NOTE the word “he” is italicized warning the English reader it is not in the original manuscripts.

Therefore, we can render this phrase, "for if ye believe not that I am (God), ye shall die in your sins." Bold letters for emphasis.

I don’t like to agree with @101G who has a different gospel from that of the Gospel of the Bible, but I agree “God cannot die.”

He is the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.

To God Be The Glory
 

101G

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I don’t like to agree with @101G who has a different gospel from that of the Gospel of the Bible, but I agree “God cannot die.”
A different gospel? are you saying I'm a false minister of God?.

yes God DIED, let's check the scriptures,
Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

now Jun2u, is this not Jesus whom you say is God?

see here's your ERROR. there is two death. A. naturaal death meaning loss of blood. the second death is the cut off from God, or erased from memory.

when God took on, and wass not a partaker of flesh and blood. that NATURAL life he died from. if he didn't then you have no resurrection, and it's you who have a false gospel.

because NO MAN was found in heaven nor on earth who could die for the sins of the world. God himself diversified himself in flesh and died from that NATURE of blood.
Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

now Jun2u, what was Jesus before he took on flesh and blood? ..... the answer Spirit. listen, "And being found in fashion as a man". if he was found in fashion as a man then he is and was not a man. STOP, and let that sink in. it's only three types of entities, 1. God 2. the angels, and 3. us humans.

let's do some deductive reasoning. scripture,
Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels". to be made lower, that mean he is higher than the angels, and that's GOD.

BINGO, God the "DIVERSITY" died from the FLESH he took on. not the Spirit died but the flesh he took on.

this is too easy.

PICJAGPS do you understand? if not ask questions.
 

Stranger

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When speaking of the Godhead none of us really know nor can we understand. God declares He is one God, yet the Bible also declares the Godhead consists of three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

The call to the world by the Father is: “Believe in my Son!”

Believe him in what?

ANSWER

John 8:23-24
23) And he said unto them ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am NOT of this world.
24) I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

NOTE the word “he” is italicized warning the English reader it is not in the original manuscripts.

Therefore, we can render this phrase, "for if ye believe not that I am (God), ye shall die in your sins." Bold letters for emphasis.

I don’t like to agree with @101G who has a different gospel from that of the Gospel of the Bible, but I agree “God cannot die.”

He is the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.

To God Be The Glory

Well, as I said earlier, what is death? When God the Son was given a human body, then He could experience death, just as any other man experiences death.

So, do you understand death?

Stranger
 

CoreIssue

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Well, as I said earlier, what is death? When God the Son was given a human body, then He could experience death, just as any other man experiences death.

So, do you understand death?

Stranger

The second person of the Trinity became the son of God when he was incarnated in the flesh. The flesh he took on was the son not his spirit, which was always God, equal to the father and the Holy Spirit.

The second person of the Trinity has no father.

The father-son Holy Spirit relationship with the Trinity did not exist in the Old Testament. It was first, second and third person of the Trinity.

The third person took on the role of Holy Spirit. The second the role of Angel of God. The first one who sat on the throne of heaven.
 

Stranger

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The second person of the Trinity became the son of God when he was incarnated in the flesh. The flesh he took on was the son not his spirit, which was always God, equal to the father and the Holy Spirit.

The second person of the Trinity has no father.

The father-son Holy Spirit relationship with the Trinity did not exist in the Old Testament. It was first, second and third person of the Trinity.

The third person took on the role of Holy Spirit. The second the role of Angel of God. The first one who sat on the throne of heaven.

No. The Son always existed with the Father as the Son. He was given a body at the incarnation. He now was the God/Man.

The Father/Son relationship has always existed.

The Son becoming Man had nothing to do with He being God the Son. The Son becoming a Man had everything to do with He being the firstborn of many brethren, so that others would become sons of God also. (Rom. 8:29) The resurrection is the birthing room for this beginning. (Acts 13:33)

Quantrill