Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
8,504
2,000
113
76
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Everyone knows that all coins have 2 sides. You cannot argue with only one side of the coin without also considering the other side of this same coin.

So which comes first? A) or B)?


A)--Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation [of born again saints] bringing forth the fruits thereof(Matthew 21:43)

B)--Lord, wilt thou at this time restore AGAIN the kingdom to Israel?
(Acts 1:6)
If you will notice, Jesus could not answer "yes" or "no" to their question, but rather revealed that any decision for an event for kingdom restoration to Israel was entirely in the hands of the Father only.
Therefore, we should NOT assume that such a proposal is even under consideration by God, that His original judgment should be reversed.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
 

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
8,504
2,000
113
76
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Who is Israel in Acts 1:6? The Godly Jews. The ones who loved God and kept His commandments.

Remember there are two Israel’s in the Bible, Godly Israel and the enemies of the gospel. The enemies of the gospel were the ones who hated God, persecuted the people, murdered the prophets and shut up the kingdom of heaven against men and wouldn't let anybody in.

The kingdom was taken from them and restored to the rightful owners - the Godly Jews.
Surely you are meaning "born again" of the Holy Spirit Jews,... correct?

Did you know that God the Father does not see who is a Jew or Gentile believer, who are born again by His Holy Spirit through faith in Christ?
Edit: as for those Jews who are of the unsaved, having no faith in Jesus, they are EQUAL to the Gentiles in sin.
Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
 
Last edited:

IndianaRob

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2023
2,183
889
113
55
Louisville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Surely you are meaning "born again" of the Holy Spirit Jews,... correct?
Did you know that God the Father does not see who is a Jew or Gentile believer, who are born again by His Holy Spirit through faith in Christ?
I mean the people of God — anyone, in any age, who believed God and had it counted to them as righteousness. Abraham, David, the thief on the cross, you and me.

Yes I agree there is no Jew and Gentile in Christ.
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
17,951
7,229
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Everyone knows that all coins have 2 sides. You cannot argue with only one side of the coin without also considering the other side of this same coin.

So which comes first? A) or B)?


A)--Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation [of born again saints] bringing forth the fruits thereof(Matthew 21:43)

B)--Lord, wilt thou at this time restore AGAIN the kingdom to Israel?
(Acts 1:6)
What kingdom do you think will be restored to Israel? Do you think the kingdom will be taken away from the church and given to the nation of Israel in the future? The kingdom of God that we're in now that "is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17)? If you're talking about the kingdom that will be inherited when Jesus comes at the last trumpet, scriptures says that people with mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit it (1 Corinthians 15:50) and those who inherit it will inherit eternal life in the kingdom (Matthew 25:31-46).
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
17,951
7,229
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I never said the fulfillment of those Daniel 9:24 items depended only on Daniel's brethren and Jerusalem. Of course they all are fulfilled by Lord Jesus Christ. You're just making up stuff I never said, which is a lie.
You should read your post #576 again. You did NOT say those things were all fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ in that post. Perhaps you are losing your memory and maybe even completely losing your mind.

When will you Jews here ever get tired of personally attacking one's credibility?
Stop ruining your own credibility by denying what you had said in post #576 where you said NOTHING about Daniel 9:24 being fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: covenantee

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
17,951
7,229
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Who then is Israel meaning in Acts 1:6? And why didn't Jesus tell them they were sadly mistaken if they thought the kingdom was going to be restored again to Israel if indeed it wasn't going to be? Jesus was not a rookie. He would not have made a rookie mistake by not telling them they were wrong if He knew they were wrong.
Jesus did not always explicitly tell the disciples they were wrong when they were wrong about something. Do you not think that what He said in Acts 1:8 relates to His answer to their question? What kind of kingdom is the kingdom of God?

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Do you not think that the kingdom of God started to be spread in Israel, starting in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, before spreading throughout the world? Is that not what Jesus was saying in Acts 1:8 in response to their question?

Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

But, even if the question was in relation to the future visible manifestation of the kingdom of God that will be a kingdom that is only inherited for eternity by those with immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:50-54, Matthew 25:31-46), so it will not be an earthly kingdom located in Israel populated by mortals, as premills believe.

Here are examples where the disciples had a wrong understanding of something and Jesus did not explicitly tell them that their understanding was wrong.

Luke 9:46 Then a dispute arose among them as to which of them would be greatest. 47 And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a little child and set him by Him, 48 and said to them, “Whoever receives this little child in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me. For he who is least among you all will be great.”

The disciples were wrong to dispute about which of them would be greatest. They were supposed to be working on being humble servants, not trying to be greater than everyone else. But, Jesus didn't rebuke them for that and tell them they were wrong for doing that, even though they were. Instead, He illustrated to them what it really means to be great in His eyes, which was completely unlike what they were thinking at the time.

What Jesus told them must not have sunk in at that time because here is what happened some time after that just after the last supper...

Luke 22:24 Now there was also a dispute among them, as to which of them should be considered the greatest. 25 And He said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those who exercise authority over them are called ‘benefactors.’ 26 But not so among you; on the contrary, he who is greatest among you, let him be as the younger, and he who governs as he who serves. 27 For who is greater, he who sits at the table, or he who serves? Is it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as the One who serves.

Despite them foolishly having the same argument again that they had previously, showing they did not take what Jesus said back then to heart, He again did not tell them they were wrong for having that dumb argument and for wanting to be the greatest. Instead, He illustrated to them that being great is related to being a servant and not to being one who is served.

Luke 19:11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately.

This verse is in relation to the full manifestation of the kingdom of God that will occur when Jesus returns. The disciples thought it should appear immediately, but instead of telling them they were wrong to think that the full manifestation of the kingdom of God would appear immediately, Jesus proceeded to tell them a parable related to Him going away and later returning to give them a reward while at the same time punishing unbelievers, which relates to Him ascending to heaven and later coming back from heaven to reward His people and judge unbelievers.

So, your argument that Jesus would have corrected them and told them they were wrong if they were wrong about the kingdom being restored to Israel in the way that Premills think it will be, is flawed because it's simply not true that Jesus would have explicitly told them they were mistaken in their misunderstanding since He did not always do that.

BTW, how much later was Pentecost in relation to when Acts:16 is meaning? Was it not some mere days later? As if it makes sense that Jesus would say to them---It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. As if within a mere few days times and seasons come and go. Except no reasonable person would insist a mere few days, maybe 50 in this case, consists of times and seasons passing by before day 50 arrives. That is profoundly absurd. Therefore, Pentecost couldn't possibly be when the kingdom is restored again to Israel. Plus it is absurd that it was not for them to know if the answer to their question lie merely days away. That makes sense exactly how?
The reference to times and seasons does not imply that times and seasons had to pass first before the kingdom could begin being restored. The reference to them not knowing the times and seasons that God put in His own authority means that only God had already determined the timing of the restoration and spreading of the kingdom in Israel and it was only something for Him to know. It doesn't imply that times and seasons still had to pass before the beginning of the restoration of the kingdom. The times and seasons Jesus referenced weren't future times and seasons, but rather times and seasons that God had already predetermined that would lead up to the spreading of His kingdom throughout the world, starting in Jerusalem.

Your understanding of Acts 1:8 is as if what Jesus said there had no relation to their question in verse 6, but that is not the case. That was part of His answer to their question, so this shows that the kingdom would not be restored in Israel in the way that they thought and that the kingdom would be a spiritual kingdom that would spread through the power of the Holy Spirit starting in Israel and then expanding throughout the earth.
 

ewq1938

Mod
Staff member
Jul 11, 2015
8,678
1,753
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I mean the people of God — anyone, in any age, who believed God and had it counted to them as righteousness. Abraham, David, the thief on the cross, you and me.

Yes I agree there is no Jew and Gentile in Christ.


You likely know this but just to make clear to whomever is reading:

There are Jews and Gentiles in Christ. I know many of both. What scripture teaches is there is no spiritual difference between a Jewish Christian and a Gentile Christian because both are equal in the body of Christ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IndianaRob

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
16,201
3,449
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Is your view that Judah and Israel are two different peoples, or one people that was politically divided for a few centuries?

No, that's not it. They are all Israelites descended from Jacob. But they came to represent different nations.

Start out by studying 1 Kings 11 and continue all the way through 2 Kings 17, and you should grasp how God's Word reveals that God divided up old Israel in Solomon's day into two separate kingdoms, and in Ezekiel 37 calls them two separate nations.


Here's how they were divided up, and what they were called AFTER God split them apart:

1. "kingdom of Judah" -- also called the "house of Judah", or just "Judah", or "Jerusalem". Capitol city was at Jerusalem. Territory was the southern holy lands, Judea, from just north of Jerusalem all the way to the southern tip of lands. Solomon's son Rehoboam of the house of David continued in the king lineage over this kingdom.

2. "kingdom of Israel" -- also called the "house of Israel", or just "Israel", or "Joseph", or "Ephraim", or "Samaria". Its capitol city was at Samaria in the north. Its territory was the northern parts of the holy land north of Jerusalem-Judea. God made Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim its king.

1 Kings 14:30 and1 Kings 15:6 even says those two kings, Rehoboam and Jeroboam and thus kingdoms had war against each other all their days.

1 Kings 14:29-30
29 Now the rest of the acts of Rehoboam, and all that he did, are they not written in the book of the Chronicles of the kings of Judah?
30
And there was war between Rehoboam and Jeroboam all their days.
KJV

So I wasn't giving you some doctrinal tradition of men with this, I was covering Bible history from The Old Testament, and Bible prophecy like Genesis 35 and Genesis 48 where God said how it would happen and to whom. Without knowing about the split of the old nation of Israel in Solomon's day, one will not properly understand who the later Bible prophecies given after the split are actually for and about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IndianaRob

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
16,201
3,449
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
You should read your post #576 again. You did NOT say those things were all fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ in that post. Perhaps you are losing your memory and maybe even completely losing your mind.

At the very start of what I wrote I had declared that ALL... of those Daniel 9:24 items are completed BY JESUS' 2ND COMING.

So what's your problem? You trying to say all those Daniel 9:24 items have already been fulfilled for the unbelieving Jews in today's nation of Israel? Not even one... of them has been fulfilled in Jerusalem by the unbelieving Jews there, which are in majority there by the way. So quit trying to take up for the UNBELIEVING JEWS in today's JERUSALEM. They will not convert until they SEE Jesus coming in the clouds!
 
Apr 7, 2026
602
92
28
75
Lexington KY
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Surely you are meaning "born again" of the Holy Spirit Jews,... correct?

Did you know that God the Father does not see who is a Jew or Gentile believer, who are born again by His Holy Spirit through faith in Christ?
Edit: as for those Jews who are of the unsaved, having no faith in Jesus, they are EQUAL to the Gentiles in sin.
Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
IMO:

There is no difference between Jews and gentiles, in the sense they serve the same God. But the Jews are God's special people (Romans 3:1-2).

Abraham is Father of the faith, and Abraham is a gentile. Jesus is Savior, a descendant of Abraham, and Jesus is Jewish.

In a larger sense Jesus is neither Jew nor gentile, rather Jesus is truly God incarnate (Matthew 1:22, also Luke 39-3).

If Jesus had been born in the normal manner he would have fallen under the curse on Adam and Eve.
 
Last edited:

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
16,201
3,449
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
You likely know this but just to make clear to whomever is reading:

There are Jews and Gentiles in Christ. I know many of both. What scripture teaches is there is no spiritual difference between a Jewish Christian and a Gentile Christian because both are equal in the body of Christ.

However, the idea of nations will still exist. (@IndianaRob)

See Psalms 72; Psalms 82:8; Psalms 86:9; Isaiah 2; and Revelation 11:15.

The ideas some in the seminaries have that we shall live in the clouds above the earth is not written in God's Word. They do not refer to the Old Testament Books which give more detail on God's future Kingdom, and even more info about Christ's coming Millennial reign with His elect, on earth. Christ's elect from both Israelites and Gentiles will reign together with Jesus at Jerusalem in His Millennium temple. But the nations will still exist, even as shown in Zechariah 14.

In Isaiah 45:18 God said He created this earth to be inhabited, to be lived upon, and that is how it will be in His future Kingdom at His future return. The Isaiah prophecy even says we will build houses and plant vineyards.

And the idea of nations is actually a creation by God, not by man. The Gentile nations will flow unto Jerusalem, and here is an example how the middle east will be divided up in His future Kingdom on earth...

Layout in God's future Kingdom after Christ's Millennium reign:

Isa 19:23-25
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.

24
In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:

25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, "Blessed be Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel Mine inheritance."
KJV
 

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
8,504
2,000
113
76
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
IMO:

There is no difference between Jews and gentiles, in the sense they serve the same God. But the Jews are God's special people (Romans 3:1-2).

Abraham is Father of the faith, and Abraham is a gentile. Jesus is Savior, a descendant of Abraham, and Jesus is Jewish.

In a larger sense Jesus is neither Jew nor gentile, rather Jesus is truly God incarnate (Matthew 1:22, also Luke 39-3).

If Jesus had been born in the normal manner he would have fallen under the curse on Adam and Eve.
It's not about the KoG being restored back to Israel, but rather the reverse.

Listen to  HOW the disciples asked Jesus the question: "wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?".

In John 3:3-7, Jesus said that EACH of Israel could be restored back into the KoG by God the Father, when they believe on Jesus as their Messiah/Savior and King.
He even helped them to know how and when that should take place by God the Father's own decision.
God the Father decided that all of Israel may EACH begin returning back to the KoG, beginning on the day of Pentecost.

Therefore, all who are of Israel, and are born again of the Holy Spirit, the KoG has been restored back to them.
Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
God the Father has been acting upon that power many times for 2026 years.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CTK

CTK

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2024
1,580
341
83
73
Albuquerque
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's not about the KoG being restored back to Israel, but rather the reverse.

Listen to  HOW the disciples asked Jesus the question: "wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?".

In John 3:3-7, Jesus said that EACH of Israel could be restored back into the KoG by God the Father, when they believe on Jesus as their Messiah/Savior and King.
He even helped them to know how and when that should take place by God the Father's own decision.
God the Father decided that all of Israel may EACH begin returning back to the KoG, beginning on the day of Pentecost.

Therefore, all who are of Israel, and are born again of the Holy Spirit, the KoG has been restored back to them.
Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
God the Father has been acting upon that power many times for 2026 years.

Reflective Narrative:
From Israel’s Expected Kingdom to the Worldwide Kingdom of God

After His resurrection, Jesus spent forty days with His disciples, “speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God” (Acts 1:3). Yet when they gathered with Him, their question revealed that they were still thinking primarily about Israel’s national restoration:

Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
—Acts 1:6

Their question was understandable. The prophets had spoken repeatedly about the restoration of Israel, the exaltation of Jerusalem, and the reign of the Messiah. The disciples therefore expected Jesus to restore the kingdom that Israel had lost and perhaps establish something resembling the kingdom of David—only greater and everlasting.

What is especially significant is the way Jesus answered them. He did not say that Israel would never be restored, that the prophets had been misunderstood, or that Israel had simply been replaced. But neither did He explain the timing or political form of Israel’s future kingdom. Instead, He redirected their attention:

“It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
—Acts 1:7–8

The disciples asked, “When will the kingdom be restored to Israel?” Jesus answered, in effect, “You are about to receive the Holy Spirit, and you will carry My message throughout the world.” That is a remarkable change in emphasis. Their attention was directed away from the timing of national restoration and toward the worldwide mission of the kingdom of God. This was consistent with what Jesus had taught throughout His ministry. His central message was not simply the restoration of Israel’s political kingdom. He repeatedly proclaimed the kingdom of God:

“The kingdom of God is at hand.”
—Mark 1:15
“I must preach the kingdom of God.”
—Luke 4:43
“He went through every city and village, preaching and bringing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God.”
—Luke 8:1

Jesus also sent His disciples “to preach the kingdom of God” (Luke 9:2).

John’s Gospel uses the phrase less frequently, but when it does, its meaning is especially important. Jesus told Nicodemus:

“Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
—John 3:3

And again:

“Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”
—John 3:5

Entrance into this kingdom is not determined by nationality, ancestry, or political citizenship. It requires a new birth through the Spirit. A person does not enter because he belongs to Israel or any other nation. He enters through faith in Christ and the transforming work of God. This becomes even clearer after the cross and Pentecost. Peter did not stand before the people and invite them to join a newly restored political kingdom of Israel. He called them to repent, believe in Jesus Christ, receive forgiveness, and receive the Holy Spirit. Three thousand people responded. They were not added to a political nation; they were added to the community of believers in Christ.

Paul later described this spiritual transfer:

“He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love.”
—Colossians 1:13

Notice that Paul speaks of this as something believers have already experienced. They have already been transferred into the kingdom of Christ. Paul also wrote:

“The kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.”
—Romans 14:17

The kingdom is therefore already present wherever Christ rules through the Holy Spirit in the lives of His people. Yet it has not reached its final and visible completion. Christ will return, judge all opposing powers, and openly establish His everlasting dominion.

The New Testament consequently presents the kingdom in two stages. It is already present spiritually, but it has not yet been fully consummated. The King has come, salvation has been accomplished, and believers have entered His kingdom. But the final victory and visible reign still await His return. This helps us understand why Jesus redirected the disciples in Acts 1. They were thinking about borders, Jerusalem, Israel’s throne, and the timing of national restoration. Jesus directed them toward the Holy Spirit, the gospel, and a mission extending to the end of the earth. Instead of focusing upon political control, Jesus repeatedly emphasized:

repentance,​
faith,​
new birth,​
eternal life,​
the indwelling Holy Spirit,​
and the making of disciples among all nations.​

This does not mean that Israel no longer matters. Paul specifically asks:

“Has God cast away His people?”

His answer is:

“Certainly not!” —Romans 11:1

Paul also speaks of Israel’s present blindness and of a future work of God involving that people. We should therefore be careful not to claim that God has no remaining purpose for ethnic Israel.

Nevertheless, after the cross, national Israel is no longer the doorway through which people must enter God’s redemptive kingdom. Christ Himself is now the center. Jew and Gentile enter the same body in the same way—through faith in Jesus and the work of the Holy Spirit. This distinction fits naturally with the larger message of Daniel. If Daniel’s seventy weeks lead to the coming of the Messiah, then the cross becomes the decisive turning point in the prophetic timeline. Before the cross, Israel is restored to the land, Jerusalem is rebuilt, the temple is functioning, and the people are awaiting their Messiah. But after the Messiah comes, dies, rises, and sends the Holy Spirit, the emphasis moves outward from national restoration to worldwide salvation.

The apostles are not commissioned to rebuild Israel’s political kingdom. They are commissioned to proclaim Christ:

“You shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth.”

The kingdom of God had drawn near in the person of its King. It was inaugurated through His ministry, death, and resurrection, Daniel 2:34. It was manifested in power at Pentecost through the Holy Spirit. It is entered now by everyone who believes, and it will be visibly consummated when Christ returns, Daniel 2:35. Viewed this way, Acts 1 records more than a correction concerning timing. It records a correction of emphasis. The disciples asked about the restoration of the kingdom to Israel. Jesus pointed them toward the present mission of the kingdom of God. He did not necessarily deny that God still had a future purpose for Israel. He showed them that their immediate responsibility was not to speculate about when Israel’s national kingdom would be restored. Their responsibility was to receive the Holy Spirit and proclaim the risen Messiah to the entire world. That shift—from national expectation to worldwide gospel mission—becomes one of the defining themes of the remainder of the New Testament.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
8,015
3,552
113
75
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
This does not mean that Israel no longer matters. Paul specifically asks:

“Has God cast away His people?”
His answer is:

“Certainly not!” —Romans 11:1
Paul also speaks of Israel’s present blindness and of a future work of God involving that people. We should therefore be careful not to claim that God has no remaining purpose for ethnic Israel.
Paul confirms the identity of "His People" in Romans 11:5.

They are those in Christ, the "remnant according to the election of grace."

Only that remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

Paul further identifies them as "His People which He foreknew".

Peter confirms Paul in identifying "His People which He foreknew" as the elect, those in Christ.

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

God's purposes are reserved exclusively for those who are faithful and obedient to Him and His Son.

No others.
 

CTK

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2024
1,580
341
83
73
Albuquerque
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Paul confirms the identity of "His People" in Romans 11:5.

They are those in Christ, the "remnant according to the election of grace."

Only that remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

Paul further identifies them as "His People which He foreknew".

Peter confirms Paul in identifying "His People which He foreknew" as the elect, those in Christ.

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

God's purposes are reserved exclusively for those who are faithful and obedient to Him and His Son.

No others.
What are you saying then - that God does not have a special purpose for His people at the time of the end? Certainly you are correct in that unless one is saved - have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior they will not see the Kingdom of Heaven - that offer is available to both Jew and Gentile alike. So, if ANY Jew or Gentile dies without Christ they are not saved. So if you follow Daniel, the NT writings, including of course Revelation, you will find that the above path for ANY AND ALL is only found in Christ, BUT, God has indeed kept a very special function for His people at the end of the time for them to fulfill. Only they are able and given this assignment - they MUST fulfill the final 4th Great Jubilee cycle that was stopped counting exactly at the time of the cross when they rejected and crucified their Messiah. At the time of the cross the 4th Great Jubilee cycle measured 486.5 years of the required 490 year cycle. The ONLY way the Jews can fulfill this cycle is if they are once again restored back into their covenant relationship with their God - no other way. Thus, after the "time of the Gentiles" is over, God will remove the blindness from the eyes of His people (not the church but His people) and they will recognize the One they pierced - exactly as Paul in the road to Damascus. God will give them their end time "Road to Damascus" experience, they are identified in Revelation as the 144,000 and they will go out and preach the Good News just as Paul did - pure and with clarity which will be completely unlike that which has been preached during the past 1500 years. Thus, this will rGod and fulfill the 4th Great Jubilee cycle and bring in the Messiah's return at the end of the 3.5 years.