Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

[Earburner]

EB doesn't understand 1 Cor 15:51-52, 1 Thess 4:14-17

Again,....there is no secret day of a so called "Rapture" before the Lord is revealed from heaven!
1 Cor. 15:51-52 and 1 Thes. 4:14-17
is Luke 17:28-30 and 2 Thes. 1:7-10

Luke 17:28-30
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot [Gen.19:16-28]; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the  SAME day [of 24 hours] that LOT WENT OUT of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. [Please notice the 24 hour day in verses 27-28 of Gen. 19:16-28]
30 EVEN THUS shall it be in the [same 24 hour] day WHEN the Son of man is revealed.

​

2 Thes. 1:7-10
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that [same 24 hour] day.

Q. SO THEN,....WHEN IS WHEN??
A. In that SAME 24 hour day, "even thus shall it be..."

 

[PeterAndroz]

1 Cor. 15:51-52 and 1 Thes. 4:14-17
is Luke 17:28-30 and 2 Thes. 1:7-10

Luke 17:28-30
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot [Gen.19:16-28]; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the  SAME day [of 24 hours] that Lot WENT OUT of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. [Please notice the 24 hour day in verses 27-28 of Gen. 19:16-28]
30 EVEN THUS shall it be in the [same 24 hour] day WHEN the Son of man is revealed.

​

2 Thes. 1:7-10
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that [same 24 hour] day.

Q. SO THEN,....WHEN IS WHEN??
A. In that SAME 24 hour day, "even thus shall it be..."

'falling away/apostasia, then rapture/rapiemur/harpadzo, then day of the Lord/Christ
...
2 Thess 2:3
"...for that day shall not come < day of the Lord
except there come a falling away first > apostasia
THEN
2 Thess 2:1
"... and by our gathering together unto him, > the rapture
1 Thess 4:17
"...Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds
...
Luke is PROPHECY
Paul is MYSTERY which was kept secret/unknown by Luke/the12 until AFTER Acts 9:15.
..
Mixing the 2 = confusion.

 

[CrowCross]

Good Work

Yes dispensationalism's "Thomas Ice" is the modern father of this false teaching, he's been pushing it for about the past 25 years now

Apostasia, falling away, defection from truth

Strong’s Definitions KJV: Falling Away
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

("Thomas Ice", False Teacher Below)

Thomas Ice is the Executive Director of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Research Center in Washington, D.C. The Research Center was founded a few years ago by Tim LaHaye and Mr. Ice to research, teach, proclaim, and defend pretribulationism. Thomas Ice’s work is known around the world as the authoritative word on the Pre-Tribulation Rapture and End Times Prophecy.

Well, you just loss a lot of credibility in your assignation attempt of a Godly man....just because he disagrees with you.

The funny thing is Thomas Ice....whether he is a false teacher of not..through the article I presented QUOTED early christians...that is, didn't make it up. It's ACTUALLY what they wrote.
BUT...you label him as false for presenting material THAT PROVED A PRE-DARBY BELIEF IN A RAPTURE? What do you have to say for yourself???

Personally I would remove Truth7t7 from your name.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes, so I'm not sure how people get RAPTURE from apostasia.

The word apostasy means "depart". To stand away.

For some reason people want to say the departure is from the faith when the verse doesn't even mention faith. It's not there...but they write it in.

 

[covenantee]

Well, you just loss a lot of credibility in your assignation attempt of a Godly man....just because he disagrees with you.

The funny thing is Thomas Ice....whether he is a false teacher of not..through the article I presented QUOTED early christians...that is, didn't make it up. It's ACTUALLY what they wrote.
BUT...you label him as false for presenting material THAT PROVED A PRE-DARBY BELIEF IN A RAPTURE? What do you have to say for yourself???

Personally I would remove Truth7t7 from your name.

Your attempt at a Shepherd of Hermas flyaway was debunked, remember?

What have you got next?

 

[CrowCross]

Your attempt at a Shepherd of Hermas flyaway was debunked, remember?

What have you got next?

Really? Are you saying that the imminent return of Christ can't possibly be true?

 

[covenantee]

Really? Are you saying that the imminent return of Christ can't possibly be true?

You quoted the Shepherd of Hermas. What was he saying?

 

[Truth7t7]

The word apostasy means "depart". To stand away.

For some reason people want to say the departure is from the faith when the verse doesn't even mention faith. It's not there...but they write it in.

For some reason people want to change God's very simple truth and claim the Greek word (Apostasia) means a secret rapture of millions of people to heaven in the future (100% False)

 

[Earburner]

'falling away/apostasia, then rapture/rapiemur/harpadzo, then day of the Lord/Christ
...
2 Thess 2:3
"...for that day shall not come < day of the Lord
except there come a falling away first > apostasia
THEN
2 Thess 2:1
"... and by our gathering together unto him, > the rapture
1 Thess 4:17
"...Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds
...
Luke is PROPHECY
Paul is MYSTERY which was kept secret/unknown by Luke/the12 until AFTER Acts 9:15.
..
Mixing the 2 = confusion.

WHEN Jesus in flaming fire is suddenly revealed from Heaven, in all the Glory of His Eternal Immortality, are you thinking that you won't be among those who are glorified on that Day in verse 10??
Why not?
2 Thes. 1:7-10, verse 10 is the "Rapture"!!

10. WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
See my post #821 again.

 

[Davy]

100% False, Jesus died for the world's sins, including Jews in Jerusalem today

The majority of Jews today still REJECT... Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ-Messiah.

Anyone with common sense then knows the Daniel 9 seventy weeks prophecy given specifically to Daniel's people the Jews, and to Jerusalem, has still NOT YET been completed.

 

[CrowCross]

You quoted the Shepherd of Hermas. What was he saying?

Why ask me????? Go back and read what he wrote.

 

[covenantee]

Why ask me????? Go back and read what he wrote.

Here's what he wrote. You seem to have missed it.

"Dr." Ice is a fraud. He deliberately omitted it.

Shepherd of Hermas
Vision 2
2[6]:7 Ye therefore that work righteousness be steadfast, and be not double-minded, that ye may have admission with the holy angels. Blessed are ye, as many as endure patiently the great tribulation that cometh, and as many as shall not deny their life.

 

[CrowCross]

For some reason people want to change God's very simple truth and claim the Greek word (Apostasia) means a secret rapture of millions of people to heaven in the future (100% False)

Here is some history for you...

The 4th generation Latin Vulgate used the word DEPARTURE.
The 1384 Wycliffe bible used DEPARTURE
The 1388 Wycliffe Purvey bible used DEPARTURE
The 1526 Tyndale bible used DEPARTURE
The 1535 Coverdale bible used DEPARTURE
The 1539 Crammer bible used DEPARTURE
The 1540 Great bible used DEPARTURE
The 1560 Geneva bible used DEPARTING
The 1576 Breeches bible used DEPARTING
The 1582 Rhiems bible used REVOLT...The first complete English Catholic translation.
The 1583 Beza bible used DEPARTING
The 1608 Geneva bible used DEPARTING

The Rheims translators explicitly rejected "departing" because they wanted to frame the text as a prophecy against the Protestant Reformation. By using "revolt," they directly accused the Protestants of causing the end-times apostasia by revolting against the Roman Catholic Church and the authority of the Pope.

The changing of the world was a theologically biased based reason rather than a literal direct translation.

The word "revolt" influenced the King James Version and over time became the incorrect standard seen in modern bibles.

Now, please tell me where the verse says departure means departing from the faith. Show me where the verse says that.

 

[CrowCross]

Here's what he wrote. You seem to have missed it.

"Dr." Ice is a fraud. He deliberately omitted it.

Shepherd of Hermas
Vision 2
2[6]:7 Ye therefore that work righteousness be steadfast, and be not double-minded, that ye may have admission with the holy angels. Blessed are ye, as many as endure patiently the great tribulation that cometh, and as many as shall not deny their life.

As i said...go back and read what he said. I even gave you a link.

 

[covenantee]

As i said...go back and read what he said. I even gave you a link.

I've given you the correct link.

 

[covenantee]

Here is some history for you...

The 4th generation Latin Vulgate used the word DEPARTURE.
The 1384 Wycliffe bible used DEPARTURE
The 1388 Wycliffe Purvey bible used DEPARTURE
The 1526 Tyndale bible used DEPARTURE
The 1535 Coverdale bible used DEPARTURE
The 1539 Crammer bible used DEPARTURE
The 1540 Great bible used DEPARTURE
The 1560 Geneva bible used DEPARTING
The 1576 Breeches bible used DEPARTING
The 1582 Rhiems bible used REVOLT...The first complete English Catholic translation.
The 1583 Beza bible used DEPARTING
The 1608 Geneva bible used DEPARTING

The Rheims translators explicitly rejected "departing" because they wanted to frame the text as a prophecy against the Protestant Reformation. By using "revolt," they directly accused the Protestants of causing the end-times apostasia by revolting against the Roman Catholic Church and the authority of the Pope.

The changing of the world was a theologically biased based reason rather than a literal direct translation.

The word "revolt" influenced the King James Version and over time became the incorrect standard seen in modern bibles.

Now, please tell me where the verse says departure means departing from the faith. Show me where the verse says that.

Debunked.

 

[CrowCross]

Here's what he wrote. You seem to have missed it.

"Dr." Ice is a fraud. He deliberately omitted it.

Shepherd of Hermas
Vision 2
2[6]:7 Ye therefore that work righteousness be steadfast, and be not double-minded, that ye may have admission with the holy angels. Blessed are ye, as many as endure patiently the great tribulation that cometh, and as many as shall not deny their life.

Yes, some post rapture christians..those that become saved during the tribulation ...will be able to endure it.

 

[CrowCross]

Debunked.

If you say so.

 

[covenantee]

Yes, some post rapture christians..those that become saved during the tribulation ...will be able to endure it.

endure patiently the great tribulation that cometh

That's not "saved during the tribulation".

It's saved before the tribulation that cometh.

 

[covenantee]

If you say so.

All of the evidence "say so".