Who is this Babylon chick anyways?
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Throughout scripture Israel in the IT and the church in the NT, are depicted as a woman. If Israel was faithful, she was depicted as being a chaste virgin.
KJV 2 Kings 19:20-21
20 Then Isaiah the son of Amoz sent to Hezekiah, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, That which thou hast prayed to me against Sennacherib king of Assyria I have heard
21 This is the word that the LORD hath spoken concerning him; The virgin the daughter of Zion hath despised thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee .
If unfaithful,
KJV Isaiah 1:18-23
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.
KJV Jeremiah 2:20
20 For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot .
KJV Ezekiel 16:2-3, 6-15
2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite....
6 ...And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
7 I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.
8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
This prophetic concept didn't change...
KJV 2 Corinthians 11:1-2
1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
KJV Ephesians 5:25-32
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
In Revelation, they are at war with one another, like warring brothers, both claiming the same Father, just as Cane and Abel. The true church giving birth to her Messiah after 1000s of years in expectation, even since the garden...
KJV Revelation 12:1-2, 5-6
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. (Prophetic years...1260... From 538 to 1798)
KJV Revelation 12:14
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent . (Same time frame. The church in the wilderness during the 1260 years of papal supremacy and persecution.)
This is all in keeping harmony with prophetic symbolism in the rest of scripture. I am sure you can bring other scriptures to mind that also depict the church, or Israel, as either faithful or unfaithful women. The song of Solomon and the book of Hosea springs to mind also.
Brakelite
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Remember @Ferris Bueller , the Pope isn't just putting himself out there to be a financial leader. He didn't want the job as minister of finance in the NWO, he wants to be President. He wants, on behalf of the church, to be the governor over every aspect of human development. Finance... Living arrangements... Church affiliation... Worship... Social order. He has his fingers dipped in every pie. Even to the point of telling Christians outside of catholicism how they should express their faith... And Sunday observance of solely a child of the Papacy... Not the Bible.
It is in honoring Catholic traditions and precepts, that the protestant and non-denominational churches submit to papal authority. You obey someone's teaching, you have surrendered to their authority over your life. If it's in spiritual matters, the authority you undermine is Christ's.
It is in honoring Catholic traditions and precepts, that the protestant and non-denominational churches submit to papal authority. You obey someone's teaching, you have surrendered to their authority over your life. If it's in spiritual matters, the authority you undermine is Christ's.
dad
Well-Known Member
You should be careful with railing accusations especially when you don't know what you are talking about. Anyhow, I agree with what I saw on one site...
"
When Scripture says that Satan stood before God in Job chapters 1 and 2, this is not the third heaven as commonly assumed. It is not the throne-room of God as often taught. This would be the second heaven, or outer space. Isaiah 14:13 talks about this “mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.” Those “congregating” are angelic beings, and, according to the Book of Job, they assemble frequently. It is somewhere in the northern part of the universe, perhaps on some planet or other faraway celestial body, that the angels give an account to and/or report to God concerning their activities. God meets these spiritual beings here. It is evidently where Satan answers to God regarding his mischief on Earth.
When the Bible speaks in Revelation chapter 12 about Michael and his angels fighting against the Devil and his angels, and the Devil and his angels being cast out of heaven, that would be the second heaven (outer space)."
How could Satan access heaven in the Books of Job and the Revelation?
dad
Well-Known Member
I am not sure why some folks are obsessed with the pope. An old geyser with no appeal who comes off to many as not even being a believer. The head (unless we believe that stuff about some other people really in charge there) of basically a pedo infested increasingly insignificant decrepit has been geriatric fable factory.
Randy Kluth
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Truth7t7
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Satan was at the "Footstool" of God on "Earth", Satan clearly states he is in the "Earth"!
Your claim Satan had a meeting with God and his Angels in heaven is a "Fairy Tale" as Pinocchio's nose grows!
Job 1:7KJV
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Isaiah 66:1KJV
1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
Quote below, dad post #167:
"Satan has had limited access to heaven, and we see him at a meeting in heaven with God and the angels in Job."
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I agree with dad. It was a council meeting of leaders from other worlds. Satan came to that meeting and the Lord asked him, what business do you have here? Satan's reply was good claim to be the ruler of the earth... And having been given lordship by Adam who abdicated the dominion, Satan's claim was justified. This was affirmed during the temptation when Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. That wouldn't have been at all tempting of they weren't his to give.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Please share how you see Rome as filling the description of the whore. What do you think constitutes the adulteries that she leads the whole world astray into?
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Forgive me for not reading the link you provided. I just haven't had the time to do that yet.
In this theory, who or what is the false prophet, the beast out of the land (Revelation 13:11) who performs signs and wonders to promote and enforce worship of the seven headed ten horned beast out of the sea (Constantinian Rome)?
Davy
Well-Known Member
You are still wrongly assigning the idea of a flesh human man to the "dragon" and the "another beast" of Revelation 13.
Rev 13:4-7
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, 'Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?'
Per Revelation 12:9, the "dragon" is another title for Satan himself. Jesus gave us a strong hint there about who the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah will be.
The "beast" pointed to there is about the one in Revelation 13:1 that was just mentioned in that Chapter, which is about a beast 'kingdom' of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns. It is NOT that "dragon" (Satan). The Revelation 13:11 forward Scripture is about the "dragon" (Satan), called the "another beast", i.e., a 2nd beast. There are TWO separate beasts being described in Revelation 13, not one, likewise in Revelation 17 also.
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
KJV
Those above verses 5-7 descriptions align with the prophecy in the Book of Daniel about the coming Antichrist (Daniel 7 and 8 about the "little horn" and "king of fierce countenance"). And those verses above are still being associated with the "dragon" of verse 4. The whole world will worship the "dragon", except Christ's elect who's names are written in the book of life of The Lamb from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV
No flesh born antichrist will do those great signs and wonders and miracles of the coming Antichrist-pseudo-Christ. God's Word describes the Antichrist doing a supernatural working...
Rev 13:13-14
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
KJV
And the titles, "son of perdition" and "man of sin" per Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2, are more titles pointing directly to Satan himself. As I said before, Satan's title of Apollyon is from Greek apollumi which means perdition. in Rev.9 is about his already having been judged and sentenced to PERISH in the future "lake of fire". Only he and his angels so far have been sentenced to perish.
The Revelation 17 chapter gives further pointers that can only apply directly about Satan as this specific "another beast", a 2nd beast.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Don't know where you are getting that false assumption of people in hell saying any such thing, unless you are referring to Isaiah 14:10 and 14:16, which is about the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign when Lucifer will be locked in his pit prison, and the kings, and those who look over at the pit at him say those things. That is still God speaking against Lucifer, but our Heavenly Father is referring to what others will say about Lucifer in that future time, and those are not all in hell that say those things.
So others might fully understand:
God begins Isaiah 14 by pointing to this as a proverb to the king of Babylon (verse 4). But like Ezekiel 28, He eventually reveals He is actually pointing to Satan too. So yeah, this is GOD speaking this...
Isa 14:6-16
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
When does the whole earth become quiet, and break forth into singing? Certainly not during this present world time. Thus God is pointing to after Satan's defeat with the time after Christ's future return to reign.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, 'Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.'
Those are metaphors God also used in Ezekiel 31 about Satan when he was originally exalted in the old world before he rebelled in coveting God's Throne. The "cedars of Lebanon" symbol was also used about the king of Judah, Zedekiah in the Book of Ezekiel. But this is about Satan's power having been subdued in his pit prison, meaning future millennial timing.
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, "Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?"
Another clear reference to Satan, because those kings of the nations follow Satan for the end. In that future millennial time, they are amazed that Satan locked in his pit prison is powerless like them. Isaiah 24:21-23 reveals those kings will be locked in the pit along with Satan, and after many days will be visited (for destruction at the end of the future millennium.)
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Many get confused with that verse 12 reference "son of the morning". God is simply MOCKING things Satan has claimed, using Satan's own words against him. There is only ONE True "morning star", and that is Lord Jesus Christ per Revelation 22. Yet Satan WANTS to be the Morning Star, i.e., Christ and thus God. That is how Satan originally rebelled against God in the old world, by coveting God's Throne that he was originally created to guard per Ezekiel 28.
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.'
God is repeating what Satan claimed in the above.
Then God speaks of Satan's eventual fate...
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"
KJV
Those who say that are NOT those in hell looking at Satan while in his future pit prison. That is something those outside that pit will be saying about him, looking over into that pit and remarking, "...is this the man...?" That means GOD is calling Satan a "man" there!
Davy
Well-Known Member
That's an old Jewish belief.
God's Heavenly Abode, which includes the abode of the angels, and even the abode of hell (Hades), is in a DIFFERENT DIMENSION of existence than our earthly dimension.
Furthermore, there is NO such idea about 3 separate heavens written in God's Word. The third heaven that Apostle Paul referred to in 2 Cor.12 is about the third world earth age, i.e., the future new heavens and a new earth timing. Paul said he heard words not lawful to utter.
There are only TWO HEAVENS written of in God's Word, the heavenly atmosphere sky around this earth, and then the Heavenly dimension that is HIDDEN behind a veil where God's Abode and the angels are, a dimension of Spirit, and not material matter.
This earthly dimension we live in INCLUDES the WHOLE UNIVERSE, which is made up of material matter! This is elementary Bible 101, so it's amazing that you claim understanding in your Bible, yet you are completely ignorant of this matter because of holding to a false Jewish tradition.
I believe three heavens.
Birds fly in the heavens.
Stars shine in the heavens.
Gods throne is in heaven.
Truth7t7
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Your claim is a sci-fi fairy tale, the scripture clearly explains Job and Satan were on the earth, you get a big A+ for imagination
Jesus Is The Lord
Job 1:7KJV
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Isaiah 66:1KJV
1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
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dad
Well-Known Member
You apparently think that because spirits visit earth that they can never leave. Kinda like 'you touched that rock so you are stuck to it forever' childish reasoning.
Gabriel visited Daniel. Does that mean he lives in Beverly Hills now and cannot get back to heaven?
Seriously?
dad
Well-Known Member
Not true. The human is the antichrist, Satan is a spirit. Try to avoid strawmen arguments.
Yes, I think we covered that clearly already.
The man is flesh and blood, so I am not sure what point you are trying to make.
That is a surprise, that spirits can work miracles using people?
No. Judas was not Satan, he was possessed by Satan. So will the last evil king be. Nothing complicated there.
Unless there are arch demons with names also. They are all doomed, so why would it be any surprise they are going to perdition?
That is the false prophet of course. Not Satan.
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