Who is Your Pope?
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There is only one Church, And it isn't the catholic church, As there are far to many differences between the Biblical Church and the catholic church.Mungo said:
Plus, The catholic teachings aren't in the Bible, Why do you thing they come against sola scriptura??.
Sola Christos!Mungo said:
Mungo said:
Bishops are to be married once and have godly children as a proof of their good leadership. Does that look like conformance with the practice of the RC organization? This is the tip of the iceberg...
When Paul said that they were to be the husband of one wife, I think it is far more likely he was saying that they could only have one wife at a time, i.e., not polygamous. It doesn't make any sense at all that his requirement for godly leadership would be to be married, when that directly contradicts his (personal) stated desire that men not marry, because having a wife caused a man to be distracted by the things of the world..Episkopos said:
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Are you Catholic? Have you read the NT right through?
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Mungo said:I should have added "(correctly interpreted)" after scripture.
Added:
Besides which marrying or not marrying is not a doctrinal issue.
So the bible actually means the opposite of the written words...
1Ti_4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
Regardless of whether Paul is just prohibiting polygamy for bishops, the Catholic Church prohibits monogamy for Bishops.ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
It's a fair interpretation that Paul is saying a bishop must be married, "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife..." (How absolute this is, is another issue.) The reason is, "for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?" Being married and having a family allows a man to demonstrate the level of responsible management that would qualify him to oversee a church.
Being married helps avoid sexual scandals among pastors (being blameless). In the Catholic church, homosexual priests molesting teenage boys is just one complication from not allowing married priests (the sexually disturbed are harder to keep out of leadership). And, I'm betting that a huge percent of Catholic priests have had affairs with women, not to mention porn habits (which may help account for the failure of priests to prevent their flock from being more Liberal than the general population).
Another benefit of a married pastor is that a good wife is a tremendous help to the pastor, and thus the church. Paul may think a wife is a necessary asset for an overseer.
Jesus and Paul were single. But, Jesus and Paul were both above reproach, something that doesn't come so easily to most men. And, both were on paths that precluded marriage.
"A bishop is to be the husband of one wife... demons, through liars, forbid marriage." - the BibleMungo said:
But, the Catholic church isn't teaching anything against the Bible when they forbid bishops from being married? Without putting the doctrines of men (or of demons) above the Bible, it's impossible to make the case for the ban on Bishops getting married, along with every other Catholic doctrine universally rejected by Protestants. Even 90% of Orthodox priests are married, and the Orthodox are an apple that didn't fall far from the Catholic tree.
You must be frustrated that your church has put you in such a difficult position.
Where do you find, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit??..In the Bible.mjrhealth said:
And God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit will only teach us things that are in line with the Bible.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit will teach us, And bring to our remembrance, What Jesus has told us, And remember, Jn 14: 26.
The Apostles got their revelations from Jesus, Especially Paul who wrote two thirds of the new Teastament by the revelations that Jesus gave him. Gal 1: 12.
And John got the Revelation from Jesus, Rev 1: 1.
So the Holy Spirit will only teach us things that agree with the Bible....He will NEVER give any hew doctrines.
I take it you are joking..AREN'T YOU??.Mungo said:
All the catholic doctrines are different to the Bible's teachings... Apart from Jesus birth, life, Ministry death and resurrection, They got that right,
Of cause the Bible contradict the catholic teachings, And vice versa.
What about The Bible saying, "we are saved by faith NOT BY WORKS"??.
Yet the catholics contradict it by saying they are saved by faith AND WORKS.
Yes, the Holy Spirit helps guide us, those of us who submit ourselves. And, yes, the Holy Spirit will guide in the Bible and not give us new doctrines (anyone who practices anything to the contrary is a cult).Alanforchrist said:
Pssst, Luke wrote more of the New Testament than Paul.
Ok, I guess my happy face wasn't enough to show that I was not taking a personal poke, but rather having fun. I do apologize for the bad attempt at humor. I now know why you disappeared for a bit.aspen2 said:
However, as well, I did address one particular thing you said concerning your viewpoint that anything beyond reading or listening to scripture is the same as adding to it. Really? Do you really think so? When Paul came along, the only scripture was in the form of what we call the old testament. He certainly added to it. The warning in the book of revelation concerning adding to what was written, is concerning the book of revelation only. It is concerning the things that John saw and wrote about. He was not referring to the whole bible, as it had not even yet been completed and compiled.
As I said, what about those whom God has given to the church? They are anointed to do much more than simply read or listen.
To whom it concerns, If one wants to be clergy in the Catholic church, he is not free to marry. So then I think this qualifies as forbidding. The Catholic clergy are not merely 'discouraged to marry.' Unless you can name one who is married, then I will stand corrected. There really is no option. The problem arises is that many are not gifted the same way Paul was, and inevitability fall into sin. The scandals are embarrassing, even to we who are not Catholic. Peter himself was in fact married and his wife traveled with him.Mungo said:
Yes to the truth, no where did Jesus say He was sent to teach the scriptures, in face most cult denomination are based on " sola scripture" yes that bible that you replaced God with. As for new doctrines,
Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
I can onl;y assume that you have no interest in what God is doing today or waht it was He wanted to say ???
In all His Love
Latin rite priests and Bishops are unmarried. However it is their choice to give up the option of marriage when they become priests “because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.” (Mt 19:12)Polt said:
"An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord." (1Cor 7:32)
Similarly if a man marries he gives up the option of being a priest (at least unless his wife dies)
“But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife and he is divided.” (1Cor 7:33-34)
Paul says “Indeed, I wish everyone to be as I am [unmarried], but each has a particular gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.
Marriage and Ordination are sacraments. Whichever a person chooses he or she will be given the graces (gifts) to live the life they have chosen.
It’s a choice. No-one forces anyone to marry or become a priest.
No-one forbids anyone to marry, but some choices rule out others.
If a man or a woman chooses to follow a celibate life as a priest, monk or nun then the Church expects them to faithfully honour that choice and the promises that go with it.
If a man or a woman chooses to marry then the Church expects them to faithfully honour that choice and the promises that go with it.
As I said some choices rule out others.
Moreover thisn discussion started because I said "No Catholic doctrine contradicts scripture and no scripture contradicts Catholic doctrine."
Celibacy is a discipline not a doctrine so the issue of marriage for priests is not relevant to that.
"
Absolutely not.Alanforchrist said:
You are wrong.Alanforchrist said:
The Bible doesn't say we are saved by Faith Alone. That was an invention of Martin Luther. He even added the word "alone" into his translation.Alanforchrist said:
James says that faith without works is a dead faith. We will not be saved by a dead faith
"For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead." (Jas 2:26).
We are saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:8). That faith must be a living faith, which includes works. But not the sort of works that Paul condemned which were "works of the law" (Gal 2:10, 3:2, 3:5, 3:10, 3:12)
williemac said:
Many Catholic priests in the Eastern Rites are married, as are some of the Anglican Rite.
For whether they are forbidden - see my reply to Polt above.
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