Who is Your Pope?

[justaname]

ok Justa name and 101G thank you for addressing the OP.

I lke what JAN stated - the use of commentaries can be used to gain understanding of the sole authority, which is the Bible, but they could also be wrong - only the scripture is free from error. I hope i have that right, JAN.

On one hand i see your point. However, I cannot dismiss the reality that commentaries add meaning to the scriptures - even our own application of scripture stretches its influence and meaning. Now, as a Catholic, I see scripture as dynamic - language is always dynamic- rather than static. Any attempt to reduce the meaning of scripture is driven by fear IMO, and ends in a rigid, dead interpretation, devoid of lfe and usefulness. Unfortunately, this suffication of the scripture based on the fear of adding information often drives noncatholic hatred for the development of doctrine within the RCC. My reasoning for titling this thread 'who is your pope?' is an attempt to point out that we all rightfully use extra sources as authoritative - it happens here all the time - one person provides a verse and that is never good enough without citing the Greek or Strongs as an authority.

I would say you summed it up pretty well. You also make a great point, even scholars need to refer to another authority be it Strongs or BDAG or whatever definition source they use.

I still contend though the HolySpirit should be the ultimate source and authority. As Tertullian explains, the Holy Spirit is the true Vicar of Christ.

 

[joshhuntnm]

Jesus!

 

[Prentis]

Your commentary?

Private interpretation?

A Christian Author or speaker?

Your Minister?

Sola scriptura is not only un biblical, it has never been tried. Everyone who does more than read scripture or listen to scripture is adding to scripture.

So you can accuse me of following the teachings of my church as long as you are honest about the fact that you think about scripture, rely on commentaries and read about applied scripture in the lives of your favorite authors. Everyone has their own version of the Pope

That's like saying 'everybody has idols'. Well, most people do. But why the unbelief?

Do you not believe that we can choose to serve God in purity, apart from our own opinions and own thoughts? Is it not possible to follow the Spirit and be cleansed from all others 'guides' and our old mind?

Is the cross of Christ not sufficient, would we only submit ourselves to it, to destroy all idols, and all our own ways, and is his ressurection not enough, should we receive the same life to make us to walk as he walked?

Christianity has not failed. It only hasn't been tried (much). To justify ourselves in our unbelief saying 'no one believes anyway' only reveals who we are once taken out of Egypt. There were 12 spies... 10 feared, and 2 believed... Which kind are we?

Christ is to be the head of every man in the church. Anything that replaces this is an idol before God and an abomination.

 

[mjrhealth]

Now when did the truth become catholic bashing, theer is truth there is lie. black or white no inbetweens. Mind you this also apples to every known man made denomination, it s all wrong.

In His Love

 

[mjrhealth]

Added, what? its there for you to read. As for the Holy Sp[irit He was sent to teach us the Truth, to say scripture or bible, is as you put it,adding to what you call His Word, its not in teh bible.

In all His Love

 

[jiggyfly]

Context is very important, The Lord said through John not to add to the the word given in the Unveiling Of Jesus Christ. Applying that with your paradigm than all we should have is John's Unveiling Of Jesus Christ, written in it's original language.
History shows that time has taken away from what most would consider as scripture.

 

[Episkopos]

Who is your Holy Father?


HIS holiness!

 

[Polt]

Now when did the truth become catholic bashing, theer is truth there is lie. black or white no inbetweens. Mind you this also apples to every known man made denomination, it s all wrong.

I'm just wondering, why are you using a manmade Christian forum? Man-made food? Man-made clothes? You should strip naked and run around in the forest like a wild animal, the rest of your days.

 

[williemac]

Your commentary?

Private interpretation?

A Christian Author or speaker?

Your Minister?

Sola scriptura is not only un biblical, it has never been tried. Everyone who does more than read scripture or listen to scripture is adding to scripture.

So you can accuse me of following the teachings of my church as long as you are honest about the fact that you think about scripture, rely on commentaries and read about applied scripture in the lives of your favorite authors. Everyone has their own version of the Pope

That's cute. Start a subject and then sit back and watch all the fun. Unfortunately, the premise of the subject is questionable to say the least. Ephesians 4:11,12 says, " And He (GOD) Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors, and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, " None of these were called popes by Paul, nor by God.

If we want to discuss who our father is, then this is God, obviously. But whatever you think may be unbiblical about those whom God has given to the church to teach, equip, correct, and edify her, or unbiblical about their practice and work in the church then I think you yourself need one of these in your life.
I think that these mentioned, if in their calling, are doing a little more than simply reading scripture. And they are anointed to do so by our Pope, our heavenly Father. You will either be one of them, or one under their anointing. Or possibly you have been successfully fully equipped for the work of ministry. If none of these, then I suppose you know better than your Pope (God)...hmmmm?

 

[Alanforchrist]

Context is very important, The Lord said through John not to add to the the word given in the Unveiling Of Jesus Christ. Applying that with your paradigm than all we should have is John's Unveiling Of Jesus Christ, written in it's original language.

History shows that time has taken away from what most would consider as scripture.

The book of Revelation Isn't the only book in the Bible that warns of the dangers of adding to God's word.
I am one of the few people who actually believe the scriptures, The Old testament Hebrew and the New Testamen Greek..
And God said if you add to His word, You are arguing with God,Your argument is with God..Not with me.
[edited by the moderator]

 

[jiggyfly]

The book of Revelation Isn't the only book in the Bible that warns of the dangers of adding to God's word.
I am one of the few people who actually believe the scriptures, The Old testament Hebrew and the New Testamen Greek..
And God said if you add to His word, You are arguing with God, Your argument is with God..Not with me. [edited]

Show me where I am arguing with God's word?

 

[Alanforchrist]

Added, what? its there for you to read. As for the Holy Sp[irit He was sent to teach us the Truth, to say scripture or bible, is as you put it,adding to what you call His Word, its not in teh bible.

In all His Love

God said a you CANNOT add to His word, a few times in the Bible.
The Holy Spirit will only reaveal things that are in line with the wrod of God,[The scriptures], Jesus said, "Thy word is truth",
The Holy Spirit won't add new doctines like the catholics do.
catholics and other false religions have to come against sola scriptura, Because their doctrines aren't in the Bible.

 

[aspen]

wow williemac - brutal post! It doesn't sound like you at all. i think my OP is valid - we all need to ask ourselves if we are misplacing authority in our lives whether it is religiuos, political, or religious. Also, this is a holiday weekend in America and I do not have the internet at my apt so I am a bit limited as far as the time i can spend posting.

Alan you are refusing to examine the log in your own eye. You are refusing to acknowledge that we all rely on the authority of our religious leaders and doctrine. Sola sriptura as interpreted today is idealistic, incomplete, and strps away all the history of the saints that lived outside of the Bible. Many Protestants reject the original understanding of sola scriptura because it didn'T go far enough - sort of like the reformers devotion to Mary - they are deemed too Catholic nowadays. However, even in these modern days of hyper sola scriptura that we live in - protestants who claim to abide by it are simply in denial about their reliance on the authority they place in development of protestant ideas

 

[mjrhealth]

The Holy Spirit won't add new doctines like the catholics do.

No but He teaches the truth not the bible, if the bible to you is all you need than He has nothing to teach you, your glass is already fill, no place for God and teh truth. There isnt a single denomination out there who even without adding as you put it, still corrupted His truth. As Jesus said, " teh word that I speak they are spirit and they are life, but you rely upon.as I think Paul put it . the dead letter. If they couldnt fit all the works of Christ in one book, how do ou honestly think they could fit God into one, unless somehow man has created God in his limited and corrput image.

In all His Love

 

[Alanforchrist]

wow williemac - brutal post! It doesn't sound like you at all. i think my OP is valid - we all need to ask ourselves if we are misplacing authority in our lives whether it is religiuos, political, or religious. Also, this is a holiday weekend in America and I do not have the internet at my apt so I am a bit limited as far as the time i can spend posting.

Alan you are refusing to examine the log in your own eye. You are refusing to acknowledge that we all rely on the authority of our religious leaders and doctrine. Sola sriptura as interpreted today is idealistic, incomplete, and strps away all the history of the saints that lived outside of the Bible. Many Protestants reject the original understanding of sola scriptura because it didn'T go far enough - sort of like the reformers devotion to Mary - they are deemed too Catholic nowadays. However, even in these modern days of hyper sola scriptura that we live in - protestants who claim to abide by it are simply in denial about their reliance on the authority they place in development of protestant ideas

Who said sola scriptura is incomplete??. Only people who don't know the Bible and Those who's doctrines aren't in the Bible, So they come against sola scriptura to vaidate their false doctrines.
You are just like others who come against sola scriptura, God calls you a liar, And says you are arguing with Him
To say the Bible doesn't go far enough, Is truelly devil inspired.

You argue with God, and you have proved that You don't know the Bible and are devil inspired.

No but He teaches the truth not the bible, if the bible to you is all you need than He has nothing to teach you, your glass is already fill, no place for God and teh truth. There isnt a single denomination out there who even without adding as you put it, still corrupted His truth. As Jesus said, " teh word that I speak they are spirit and they are life, but you rely upon.as I think Paul put it . the dead letter. If they couldnt fit all the works of Christ in one book, how do ou honestly think they could fit God into one, unless somehow man has created God in his limited and corrput image.

In all His Love

The Holy Spirit will only teach us things that are in line with the Bible.
He will guide us into all truth, But won't go against the Bible, Or add new doctrines.
He will show us the pathway of safety, blessings and things that will be a benefit to us, But the Bible tells us that.

If not sola scriptura, WHAT ELES IS THERE??

The Bible is our safety guidline, It guards us against new and false doctrines.
If not Sola scriptura anyone can make up a new doctrine and say it is inspired by God, Just like the catholics do.

[edited by the mod]

 

[mjrhealth]

If not sola scriptura, WHAT ELES IS THERE??

Jesus, God teh Holy Spirirt and teh truth. Even teh bible doesnt say tha tthe Holy Spirit was sent to teach you scriptuire ???

In all His Love

 

[justaname]

Who said sola scriptura is incomplete??. Only people who don't know the Bible and Those who's doctrines aren't in the Bible, So they come against sola scriptura to vaidate their false doctrines.
You are just like others who come against sola scriptura, God calls you a liar, And says you are arguing with Him
To say the Bible doesn't go far enough, Is truelly devil inspired.

You argue with God, and you have proved that You don't know the Bible and are devil inspired.


The Holy Spirit will only teach us things that are in line with the Bible.
He will guide us into all truth, But won't go against the Bible, Or add new doctrines.
He will show us the pathway of safety, blessings and things that will be a benefit to us, But the Bible tells us that.

If not sola scriptura, WHAT ELES IS THERE??

The Bible is our safety guidline, It guards us against new and false doctrines.
If not Sola scriptura anyone can make up a new doctrine and say it is inspired by God, Just like the catholics do. [edited]

As to your question of sola scriptura:

2 Thessalonians 2:15

15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

 

[Alanforchrist]

As to your question of sola scriptura:

2 Thessalonians 2:15

15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

The original Greek meaning for, "Tradition", Is the word of God, Either by the scriptures or the Apostles teachings as they received them from the Lord.
And now we have the record of them in the Bible.
It is just like me saying to my congregation, Hold fast to the doctrines that I have taught you, Either by showing you the Bible, Or me speaking about waht the Bible says.

If not sola scriptura, What eles is there??.

 

[justaname]

33.239 παράδοσις, εως f: (derivative of παραδίδωμιc ‘to instruct,’ 33.237) the content of traditional instruction—‘teaching, tradition.’ διὰ τί οἱ μαθηταί σου παραβαίνουσιν τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν πρεσβυτέρων; ‘why is it that your disciples disobey the tradition of our ancestors?’ Mt 15:2.


παράδοσις.
In the NT this means “tradition” (→ παραδίδωμι, 6.) only in the sense of what is transmitted, not of transmission. In this sense, it does not occur in the LXX, but is found in Philo and Joseph. and in Greek generally, though it less common than in the other sense.



2. For Paul Christian teaching is tradition (1 C. 11:2; 2 Th. 2:15; 3:6; cf. 1 C. 11:23; 15:1–11), and he demands that the churches should keep to it, since salvation depends on it (1 C. 15:2). He sees no antithesis between pneumatic piety and the high estimation of tradition. The essential point for Paul is that it has been handed down (1 C. 15:3), and that it derives from the Lord (11:23). A tradition initiated by himself or others is without validity (Col. 2:8). It is no contradiction that Jesus repudiates tradition and Paul champions it. Paul’s tradition agrees with Jesus’ rejection, since they are both opposed to human tradition. Paul’s use of παράδοσις and παραδοῦναι rests on the Jewish usage, and agrees with that of the Mysteries to the extent that this agrees with Jewish usage. On the other hand, Paul does not recognise the sacraments as objects of παραδοῦναι and παράδοσις.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

There is but one Word, The Lord Jesus Christ, one Spirit and one Father and they have ordained and sent men to preach the Word unto the lost to draw them to call upon God. Yet it is the Spirit who teaches the man of God so that he learns truth and not traditions of men to feed the flock. Yet we all feed upon one another as the body of Christ we must share our bread from heaven with our brethren.
Rom 10:14-17
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
KJV
Mark 16:15-18
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18.They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
KJV