Who may Authoritatively Arbitrate Between Christians who Claim to be led......

[InHisName]

by the Holy Spirit into mutually contradictory interpretations of the Bible?

Someone another forum asked this question and I would like to know how to respond back.

 

[Enquirer]

This is something that I've personally pondered for quite some time now and though my answer might not hit the nail on the head I
have reached the conclusion that for me God has stated by the Holy Spirit that there is always an established doctrine for everything.

But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. Titus 2:1

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves
teachers in accordance to their own desires, 2 Timothy 4:3

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the
Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

This simply tells me that God has an established doctrine concerning everything, and that this doctrine is either known or can be known .

And that if Jesus has spoken on this topic then that is the doctrine to follow, anything that goes cross-wise to this is false.
And I believe that Jesus established doctrine in two ways ... that which He could confirm "by two or three witnesses" and that which was "new revelation"
and fell in line with the New covenant that God was going to establish through him.

Without a solid foundation of that which has been established and does not run contrary to the New Covenant, the Bible would be open to virtually any
old doctrine that was proposed.
Also, anything that would go against the character of God.
I am busy reading "Knowing God" by J.I Packer and this has helped me tremendously in understanding God and therefore, his will.

 

[Angelina]

Greetings InHisName!

by the Holy Spirit into mutually contradictory interpretations of the Bible?

I think you may have answered your own question however I would like to know in what context you are referring to???

scripture tells us “I assure you: The one who believes in Me will also do the works that I do. And he will do even greater works than these, because I am going to the Father". John 14:12

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

No person can authoritatively arbitrate. There exists a handful of issues (not many really) that Christians have never and may never agree on. But again, no person is the authority. The bible is the authority.

 

[InHisName]

No person can authoritatively arbitrate. There exists a handful of issues (not many really) that Christians have never and may never agree on. But again, no person is the authority. The bible is the authority.

The Bible is not its own authority.

 

[justaname]

First off the Holy Spirit will never contradict scripture. I know you did not explicitly state this could happen, but I want to make it clear.

The question relies on "authority". Who or what is the authority? Is it tradition? Is it the scriptures? Is it the Holy Spirit? Is it a particular denomination?

Then we have the question of hermeneutics. This will directly coincide with the particular interpretation either individual will perceive. The arbiter must have a hermeneutic that is consistent with the biblical account. Allowing for a hermeneutic that relies on allegory will present difficulty as it will be much more subjective. Keeping a conservative hermeneutic like, "A text can never mean anything it never meant to its original recipients or audience", will stabilize the arbiter.

Many people claim to be led by the Spirit, yet unfortunately they are not. The question then begs how do we know who is truly led? Jesus says you will know a tree by it's fruit. Yet theologically and historically many renowned Christians had varying views while leading exemplary lives. So in truth it is difficult to discern between certain interpretations. This being said though one interpretation can never negate the whole of scripture, and scripture is the best interpreter of scripture.

Looking to the early Church, councils were held with as many Christian leaders in attendance as possible. Arguments were laid from the opposing sides and a general consensus was formed from the committee at large.


Without specific information it is extremely difficult to give more than vague answers...but I hope this helps.

 

[InHisName]

Here is a link about the history of the Holy Bible [link removed]

 

[Angelina]

The question seems to be more about two opposing views and which one is being led by the Holy Spirit?

 

[just a servant]

The question seems to be more about two opposing views and which one is being led by the Holy Spirit?

1 Timothy 6:20

This reminds me of the Calvinism vs Armenianism debate. In fact, it MUST BE. What else?

The Calvinism vs Armenianism debate comes from human vanity and directly opposing ideas that are falsely called knowledge. I can illustrate that fact point by point with Scripture (although I don't like to copy/paste with the Word of God, sometimes when done properly it is useful to do so). Both sides are an attempt to make the person Jesus Christ an impersonal force - as if Jesus is a computer program set up to run within certain human-defined parameters and the Scriptures are arbitrary rules to be interpreted by opposing man-made algorithms. The fact that humans got paid to set up these opposing algorithms only worsened the situation and further embedded the opposing algorithms in opposite trenches. The war was on and almighty mammon was at stake.

This is vanity and that is objective reality.

God said He does what He wants when He wants with who He wants. Anyone who says otherwise is in error. Led by the Holy Spirit and speaking in the Holy Spirit are two different things, by the way.

 

[KingJ]

by the Holy Spirit into mutually contradictory interpretations of the Bible?

Someone another forum asked this question and I would like to know how to respond back.

I would say anyone who can read and interpret with honesty. When we do this we find that their are material and non-material issues.

Paul is ''crystal clear'' on the most material issue regarding Christianity in 1 Cor 2:2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.

Then, there are easy to read and understand elementary principles of Christ in Heb 6.

The real issue imo is in how we arrive at our beliefs.

Do we follow....

Phil 2:12 'continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling'.
2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test.
1 Cor 11:31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.

Conclusion: As has been said, there is one truth. The Holy Spirit reveals this to us. We are ALL at different stages of growth. Making the most important issue for us, honesty to self / openness to correction from scripture.

 

[Doxiemom]

How can anyone claim this authority? While I am certainly no scholar by any means, it seems that "authority" over certain things , was given to individuals as described in Scripture. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't recall where it says that someday the Holy Spirit will give authority to some future person.

The fullest understanding of Scripture is given by God's timing and to whom He pleases. And until that time, it is as if Scripture is seen through a dark glass. After all, there were mysteries sealed up in a book as told to Daniel. John was given revelation concerning this book and clearly , during the proper season, we are understanding it.

 

[Johnlove]

[SIZE=16pt]I believe each person is responsible for his or her own soul.[/SIZE]

Once[SIZE=16pt] a person is baptized in Jesus name, and receives the Holy Spirit then it is up to that person to obey what he or she is being taught by the Holy Spirit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2: 27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you; the anointing he gave teaches you everything: you are anointed with truth, not with a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]There is one way, and only one true way a person can know for sure it is the Holy Spirit/Jesus leading him or her. That way is if the fruit produced from the teaching he or she has received is good fruit. Good fruit as obeying God in everything he or she does. Good fruit as never sinning again.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]If one still sins then it is the devil who they are following. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Remember it is God’s will that should be done in one’s life, and it is God’s will that we all live his commandments. [/SIZE]

 

[heretoeternity]

Apostle John in 1st John, writes to test the spirit you are following, is it God's Holy Spirit, or some false spirit..he also goes on to say "how can you say you love God, who you have not seen, when you do not love your brother who you have seen? Good question..that appears to be the test as to which spirit you are following..it is up to each person to sort that out pray about it, and request help when needed~!

 

[HammerStone]

The idea that we alone are deciders of something like this is not in the New Testament.

The most glaring example would be the Jerusalem Council of Acts 15:6-29. In the lead up to the council, there is a pretty clear indication of how a debate is decided because both sides claimed inspiration for their teachings. In this case, Paul and Barnabas had the ultimately vindicated teaching, but those who came down from Judea had a strong foothold for what they taught about circumcision.

The preface passage reads:

Acts 15:1-3
Some men came down from Judea and began to teach the brothers: “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom prescribed by Moses, you cannot be saved!” But after Paul and Barnabas had engaged them in serious argument and debate, the church arranged for Paul and Barnabas and some others of them to go up to the apostles and elders in Jerusalem concerning this controversy.

So we have the Biblical system where the error is first addressed directly to the offender. If that does not work, the local church is then the next level. In this case you had other purported Christians coming down, so the church set up a meeting in Jerusalem on the matter involving a specific set of people. Note that it was not the church there in Jerusalem as a whole, but specifically the leadership in the form of apostles and elders.

 

[Johnlove]

The idea that we alone are deciders of something like this is not in the New Testament.

The most glaring example would be the Jerusalem Council of Acts 15:6-29. In the lead up to the council, there is a pretty clear indication of how a debate is decided because both sides claimed inspiration for their teachings. In this case, Paul and Barnabas had the ultimately vindicated teaching, but those who came down from Judea had a strong foothold for what they taught about circumcision.

The preface passage reads:

Acts 15:1-3
Some men came down from Judea and began to teach the brothers: “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom prescribed by Moses, you cannot be saved!” But after Paul and Barnabas had engaged them in serious argument and debate, the church arranged for Paul and Barnabas and some others of them to go up to the apostles and elders in Jerusalem concerning this controversy.

So we have the Biblical system where the error is first addressed directly to the offender. If that does not work, the local church is then the next level. In this case you had other purported Christians coming down, so the church set up a meeting in Jerusalem on the matter involving a specific set of people. Note that it was not the church there in Jerusalem as a whole, but specifically the leadership in the form of apostles and elders.

[SIZE=16pt]There is one great big problem when someone allows a Church to decide how to live the Word of God. That problem is what Church?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]John told us that we are given the Holy Spirit to teach us everything. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2: 27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you; the anointing he gave teaches you everything: you are anointed with truth, not with a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Paul told us that the Holy Spirit would tell us how to behave.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus said he would call his own out by name and they would follow him. So Jesus leads his own people and that is who they follow. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Does one ever have to worry if he or she is living the Word of God if they are following Jesus?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. e calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."[/SIZE]

(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.
[SIZE=16pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Then Jesus told us that if one lives his Word he would show himself to him or her. That is when one knows for sure he or she is living the Word the way it was meant to live God’s Word.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.” [/SIZE]

 

[Julabee Jones]

At first blush, one would think the answer to the OP's question would be "The Holy Spirit"...should always be the arbitrator between differing views of scripture (or anything else for that matter).

But there is a very definite problem here, for it is a truth that, "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets." 1 Cor 14:32.

And what prophet can assure that his speaking is of the Spirit of God? What if he has a bellyache? What if he and the wife are arguing and he is overwrought?

And someone will say, "But I'm not a prophet"...Perhaps, but if you speak in the assembly, in the church, you are serving in the prophetic role according to Paul, in this verse,

"But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort." 1 Cor 14:3. So if one is prophesying while speaking to the church for edification, exhortation and comfort...then one speaking to the church for edification, exhortation and comfort, is serving a prophetic role.

And in fact, the singular chapter where the New Testament Church is given instructions on how to conduct meetings of the church (with a couple of minor exceptions), is this 14th chapter of First Corinthians. If you'd like to do something that will shock you, and shock you incredibly...

Read the New Testament from Acts through Jude, and note carefully how many things ARE NOT in the New Testament Church according to the New Testament...that ARE found in what passes for the New Testament Church of today. You'll never look at the modern church the same way again. And remember as you do so, that what the Bible DOES NOT say is as important as what it DOES say. For we are never to 'add to' the Word of God,

"What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it." Deut 12:32. (Remember, in Numbers chapter three, the two oldest sons of Aaron were killed when trying to add to the Word of God...they, doing their best to go the second mile, to do it even better than God decreed, offered 'strange fire' upon the newly sanctified altar, and were slain from above).

Anyway, Paul tells us that we should, "...seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church." 1 Cor 14:12b.

That should be the ministry of every single member of the congregation. (That is, every member of the church should not only be welcome to speak during the meetings...but should actually be encouraged to speak during the meetings. Church meetings in the New Testament were never about one man leading singing/worship, and another man preaching.) Every word, every gesture, every gift, every element of the meeting of the church should be directed toward edifying the church. That means then, that when the Holy Spirit leads, such things as this will occur,

"Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted" 1 Cor 14:30-31.

So that we are to, "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying" 1 Cor. 14:26. Note the "Every one of you" admonition.

So, after that scintillating but slight introduction, allow me to hie back to the essence of the question, "who is to serve as arbitrator"? If that is, it isn't the Holy Spirit...and it isn't.

Let's look at Amos chapter 7, and see a very specific prophecy regarding the Bible, God's Word, and even more so, the New Testament and the church...

"Thus he shewed me: and, behold, the Lord stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand. And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more..." Amos 7:7-8.

Remember, "Jesus came unto his own, and his own received him not" John 1:11. He is here speaking of the Jews, of Israel. They didn't receive Jesus, their own, nor did they receive the plumbline, God, Jesus, in the Word of God as we have it today. Think about just how much they threw away...

A plumbline is utterly essential in building, whether outhouse, pyramid or church (church building as well as the 'church' that meets within). In order to build strong, in order to insure stability and integrity, a building must be built straight, true and plumb. Otherwise, the building will fall into destruction, as surely as if it were built upon sand.

Isaiah gives us another look at the plumbline, and in fact goes some way toward helping us to define it (although I suspect you already know what it is), with,

"Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet..." Isa. 28:16-17.

We know Jesus to be the tried and true foundation, the actual corner stone of the building we are all striving to build, and hopefully to build upon, today.

But what is the 'plummet' of which the prophet speaks? The plummet (plumbline) that will be used to judge our own righteousness? It is the New Testament...

And the New Testament is found in John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1. And we find in Revelation chapter nineteen, speaking of Jesus, that His named is called "The Word of God".

Out of numerous other references to this fact of spiritual life, I'll add only one other, the words of Peter, as he tells that we are, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23.

Only that which is incorruptible, that which cannot be altered, that which cannot be added unto, nor subtracted from...only something objective, something absolute, can serve to build the Church of Jesus Christ. And that is the New Testament.

Remember, one of the more telling verses in the whole of the New Testament is this,

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son..." Hebrews 1:1-2.

There may be (for the dispensationalists among us) many different dispensations in God's Word. There may be many different perspectives, many different understandings, but there are ever and only TWO SPEAKINGS in God's Word. They are, 1) the speaking of God in times past unto the fathers 'by the prophets',

And 2) the speaking of God to us in these last days by Jesus Christ. Anything else, anything not found and included in what these two speakings provide, simply are not God's speakings to us...they are something else, something other.

And so, in final answer to the OP's appeal...

Everything, everything we know, everything we believe, everything we say, everything we do, everything in which are led, everything...EVERYTHING...must be held up alongside the Plumbline, the Plummet, the Word of God. And when any of these things departs from the Word of God, the Plumbline...we are in error. We may sincere, we may prayerful, we may be giving and faithful...but if we don't align with the plumbline, the Word of God, we are in error.

We're told to "Try the spirits' whether they are of God". 1 John 4:1. We're told to "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good". 1 Thess 5:21. We're told to, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith" 2 Cor 13:5.

And it is Jesus who said to us, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46. Indeed, why? Could it be ignorance of the Word? And a failure to live our lives aligned with the Plumbline?

And we're told specifically, by Jesus, in speaking of these last days, "Let no man deceive you..." In order to insure being able to do that, to insure no man can deceive us, we must know God's Word. Without it, we are without strength, without power to keep the deceiver at bay.

Deceptions are a dime a dozen. The truth will always cost the lives of many, not the least of which was Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ...

God bless you,

Apologetic for the length of this post, I am and remain sincerely yours in Jesus Christ,

Julabee Jones

 

[HammerStone]

Then Jesus told us that if one lives his Word he would show himself to him or her. That is when one knows for sure he or she is living the Word the way it was meant to live God’s Word.

Johnlove, I don't necessarily disagree with your, but your post never answers the question you posed on the first line of it. What does this showing look like? As an Administrator on this forum, I've had people claim all sorts of experiences from seeing Jesus in a dream or vision to receiving written revelation, to Jesus's face manifesting in their morning toast.

We have to use a bit of deduction here and work from the source we have. And that would be the Bible. Anything the Spirit does would need to be consistent with Holy Scripture.

 

[Johnlove]

Johnlove, I don't necessarily disagree with your, but your post never answers the question you posed on the first line of it. What does this showing look like? As an Administrator on this forum, I've had people claim all sorts of experiences from seeing Jesus in a dream or vision to receiving written revelation, to Jesus's face manifesting in their morning toast.

We have to use a bit of deduction here and work from the source we have. And that would be the Bible. Anything the Spirit does would need to be consistent with Holy Scripture.

[SIZE=16pt]My sharing about a personal relationship with Jesus is not shared in an effort to convince people that what is shared by me is right.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]I share because it is the truth, and hopefully it will encourage others to do the same. Also it may open some people’s hearts to hear God speak to him or her.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Most times when I share the Jesus has personally taught me about him, it makes people believe less in what I say. In fact most times it gives people an excuse to believe me to be out of my mind.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]If you believe me to ever share something that does not agree with the written Word of God, then please show me. But don’t show me using the teachings of any church. Show me using the written Word of God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]I personally have no belief in any of the Christian Churches over all teachings. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]I believe some of the Churches teach some of the truth, but I believe most churches teach what man wants to believe about God. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Now that understanding is limited by my exposure, I have not researched all of the Churches. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]But after ten years of more of posting on the Christian forums, I have had exposure to very many Christian Churches.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Jesus has told me he is God, and that the bible is his written Word.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]I believe in God’s Word, and the understanding of God’s Word that Jesus has personally given me. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]I am not a teacher, and have no interest in converting anyone.[/SIZE]

 

[Rocky Wiley]

At first blush, one would think the answer to the OP's question would be "The Holy Spirit"...should always be the arbitrator between differing views of scripture (or anything else for that matter).

But there is a very definite problem here, for it is a truth that, "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets." 1 Cor 14:32.

And what prophet can assure that his speaking is of the Spirit of God? What if he has a bellyache? What if he and the wife are arguing and he is overwrought?

And someone will say, "But I'm not a prophet"...Perhaps, but if you speak in the assembly, in the church, you are serving in the prophetic role according to Paul, in this verse,

"But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort." 1 Cor 14:3. So if one is prophesying while speaking to the church for edification, exhortation and comfort...then one speaking to the church for edification, exhortation and comfort, is serving a prophetic role.

And in fact, the singular chapter where the New Testament Church is given instructions on how to conduct meetings of the church (with a couple of minor exceptions), is this 14th chapter of First Corinthians. If you'd like to do something that will shock you, and shock you incredibly...

Read the New Testament from Acts through Jude, and note carefully how many things ARE NOT in the New Testament Church according to the New Testament...that ARE found in what passes for the New Testament Church of today. You'll never look at the modern church the same way again. And remember as you do so, that what the Bible DOES NOT say is as important as what it DOES say. For we are never to 'add to' the Word of God,

"What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it." Deut 12:32. (Remember, in Numbers chapter three, the two oldest sons of Aaron were killed when trying to add to the Word of God...they, doing their best to go the second mile, to do it even better than God decreed, offered 'strange fire' upon the newly sanctified altar, and were slain from above).

Anyway, Paul tells us that we should, "...seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church." 1 Cor 14:12b.

That should be the ministry of every single member of the congregation. (That is, every member of the church should not only be welcome to speak during the meetings...but should actually be encouraged to speak during the meetings. Church meetings in the New Testament were never about one man leading singing/worship, and another man preaching.) Every word, every gesture, every gift, every element of the meeting of the church should be directed toward edifying the church. That means then, that when the Holy Spirit leads, such things as this will occur,

"Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted" 1 Cor 14:30-31.

So that we are to, "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying" 1 Cor. 14:26. Note the "Every one of you" admonition.

So, after that scintillating but slight introduction, allow me to hie back to the essence of the question, "who is to serve as arbitrator"? If that is, it isn't the Holy Spirit...and it isn't.

Let's look at Amos chapter 7, and see a very specific prophecy regarding the Bible, God's Word, and even more so, the New Testament and the church...

"Thus he shewed me: and, behold, the Lord stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand. And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more..." Amos 7:7-8.

Remember, "Jesus came unto his own, and his own received him not" John 1:11. He is here speaking of the Jews, of Israel. They didn't receive Jesus, their own, nor did they receive the plumbline, God, Jesus, in the Word of God as we have it today. Think about just how much they threw away...

A plumbline is utterly essential in building, whether outhouse, pyramid or church (church building as well as the 'church' that meets within). In order to build strong, in order to insure stability and integrity, a building must be built straight, true and plumb. Otherwise, the building will fall into destruction, as surely as if it were built upon sand.

Isaiah gives us another look at the plumbline, and in fact goes some way toward helping us to define it (although I suspect you already know what it is), with,

"Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet..." Isa. 28:16-17.

We know Jesus to be the tried and true foundation, the actual corner stone of the building we are all striving to build, and hopefully to build upon, today.

But what is the 'plummet' of which the prophet speaks? The plummet (plumbline) that will be used to judge our own righteousness? It is the New Testament...

And the New Testament is found in John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1. And we find in Revelation chapter nineteen, speaking of Jesus, that His named is called "The Word of God".

Out of numerous other references to this fact of spiritual life, I'll add only one other, the words of Peter, as he tells that we are, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23.

Only that which is incorruptible, that which cannot be altered, that which cannot be added unto, nor subtracted from...only something objective, something absolute, can serve to build the Church of Jesus Christ. And that is the New Testament.

Remember, one of the more telling verses in the whole of the New Testament is this,

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son..." Hebrews 1:1-2.

There may be (for the dispensationalists among us) many different dispensations in God's Word. There may be many different perspectives, many different understandings, but there are ever and only TWO SPEAKINGS in God's Word. They are, 1) the speaking of God in times past unto the fathers 'by the prophets',

And 2) the speaking of God to us in these last days by Jesus Christ. Anything else, anything not found and included in what these two speakings provide, simply are not God's speakings to us...they are something else, something other.

And so, in final answer to the OP's appeal...

Everything, everything we know, everything we believe, everything we say, everything we do, everything in which are led, everything...EVERYTHING...must be held up alongside the Plumbline, the Plummet, the Word of God. And when any of these things departs from the Word of God, the Plumbline...we are in error. We may sincere, we may prayerful, we may be giving and faithful...but if we don't align with the plumbline, the Word of God, we are in error.

We're told to "Try the spirits' whether they are of God". 1 John 4:1. We're told to "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good". 1 Thess 5:21. We're told to, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith" 2 Cor 13:5.

And it is Jesus who said to us, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46. Indeed, why? Could it be ignorance of the Word? And a failure to live our lives aligned with the Plumbline?

And we're told specifically, by Jesus, in speaking of these last days, "Let no man deceive you..." In order to insure being able to do that, to insure no man can deceive us, we must know God's Word. Without it, we are without strength, without power to keep the deceiver at bay.

Deceptions are a dime a dozen. The truth will always cost the lives of many, not the least of which was Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ...

God bless you,

Apologetic for the length of this post, I am and remain sincerely yours in Jesus Christ,

Julabee Jones

Hi Julabee,

Good post with detail that shows you have put in the time required to speak. If we all did as much there would be only minor disagreements.

Have a blessed day!

 

[Johnlove]

At first blush, one would think the answer to the OP's question would be "The Holy Spirit"...should always be the arbitrator between differing views of scripture (or anything else for that matter).

But there is a very definite problem here, for it is a truth that, "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets." 1 Cor 14:32.

And what prophet can assure that his speaking is of the Spirit of God? What if he has a bellyache? What if he and the wife are arguing and he is overwrought?

And someone will say, "But I'm not a prophet"...Perhaps, but if you speak in the assembly, in the church, you are serving in the prophetic role according to Paul, in this verse,

"But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort." 1 Cor 14:3. So if one is prophesying while speaking to the church for edification, exhortation and comfort...then one speaking to the church for edification, exhortation and comfort, is serving a prophetic role.

And in fact, the singular chapter where the New Testament Church is given instructions on how to conduct meetings of the church (with a couple of minor exceptions), is this 14th chapter of First Corinthians. If you'd like to do something that will shock you, and shock you incredibly...

Read the New Testament from Acts through Jude, and note carefully how many things ARE NOT in the New Testament Church according to the New Testament...that ARE found in what passes for the New Testament Church of today. You'll never look at the modern church the same way again. And remember as you do so, that what the Bible DOES NOT say is as important as what it DOES say. For we are never to 'add to' the Word of God,

"What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it." Deut 12:32. (Remember, in Numbers chapter three, the two oldest sons of Aaron were killed when trying to add to the Word of God...they, doing their best to go the second mile, to do it even better than God decreed, offered 'strange fire' upon the newly sanctified altar, and were slain from above).

Anyway, Paul tells us that we should, "...seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church." 1 Cor 14:12b.

That should be the ministry of every single member of the congregation. (That is, every member of the church should not only be welcome to speak during the meetings...but should actually be encouraged to speak during the meetings. Church meetings in the New Testament were never about one man leading singing/worship, and another man preaching.) Every word, every gesture, every gift, every element of the meeting of the church should be directed toward edifying the church. That means then, that when the Holy Spirit leads, such things as this will occur,

"Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted" 1 Cor 14:30-31.

So that we are to, "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying" 1 Cor. 14:26. Note the "Every one of you" admonition.

So, after that scintillating but slight introduction, allow me to hie back to the essence of the question, "who is to serve as arbitrator"? If that is, it isn't the Holy Spirit...and it isn't.

Let's look at Amos chapter 7, and see a very specific prophecy regarding the Bible, God's Word, and even more so, the New Testament and the church...

"Thus he shewed me: and, behold, the Lord stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand. And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more..." Amos 7:7-8.

Remember, "Jesus came unto his own, and his own received him not" John 1:11. He is here speaking of the Jews, of Israel. They didn't receive Jesus, their own, nor did they receive the plumbline, God, Jesus, in the Word of God as we have it today. Think about just how much they threw away...

A plumbline is utterly essential in building, whether outhouse, pyramid or church (church building as well as the 'church' that meets within). In order to build strong, in order to insure stability and integrity, a building must be built straight, true and plumb. Otherwise, the building will fall into destruction, as surely as if it were built upon sand.

Isaiah gives us another look at the plumbline, and in fact goes some way toward helping us to define it (although I suspect you already know what it is), with,

"Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet..." Isa. 28:16-17.

We know Jesus to be the tried and true foundation, the actual corner stone of the building we are all striving to build, and hopefully to build upon, today.

But what is the 'plummet' of which the prophet speaks? The plummet (plumbline) that will be used to judge our own righteousness? It is the New Testament...

And the New Testament is found in John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1. And we find in Revelation chapter nineteen, speaking of Jesus, that His named is called "The Word of God".

Out of numerous other references to this fact of spiritual life, I'll add only one other, the words of Peter, as he tells that we are, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23.

Only that which is incorruptible, that which cannot be altered, that which cannot be added unto, nor subtracted from...only something objective, something absolute, can serve to build the Church of Jesus Christ. And that is the New Testament.

Remember, one of the more telling verses in the whole of the New Testament is this,

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son..." Hebrews 1:1-2.

There may be (for the dispensationalists among us) many different dispensations in God's Word. There may be many different perspectives, many different understandings, but there are ever and only TWO SPEAKINGS in God's Word. They are, 1) the speaking of God in times past unto the fathers 'by the prophets',

And 2) the speaking of God to us in these last days by Jesus Christ. Anything else, anything not found and included in what these two speakings provide, simply are not God's speakings to us...they are something else, something other.

And so, in final answer to the OP's appeal...

Everything, everything we know, everything we believe, everything we say, everything we do, everything in which are led, everything...EVERYTHING...must be held up alongside the Plumbline, the Plummet, the Word of God. And when any of these things departs from the Word of God, the Plumbline...we are in error. We may sincere, we may prayerful, we may be giving and faithful...but if we don't align with the plumbline, the Word of God, we are in error.

[SIZE=16pt]The written Word of God is the plumb line? Who’s understanding of the written Word of God does one use as the plumb line?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Example the following scripture is from the written Word of God, and people have made that plumb line bend so much that it might as well be a magnet finding the North Pole. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Matthew 5:38-48) “You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance. On the contrary, if anyone hits you on the right cheek, offer him the other as well, if a man takes you to law and would have your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone orders you to go one mile, go two miles with him. Give to anyone who asks, and if anyone wants to borrow, do not turn away. You have learnt how it was said: you must love your neighbour and hate your enemy. But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you; in this way you will be sons of your Father in heaven[/SIZE], for he causes his sun to rise on bad men as well as good,”

We're told to "Try the spirits' whether they are of God". 1 John 4:1. We're told to "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good". 1 Thess 5:21. We're told to, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith" 2 Cor 13:5.

And it is Jesus who said to us, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46. Indeed, why? Could it be ignorance of the Word? And a failure to live our lives aligned with the Plumbline?

And we're told specifically, by Jesus, in speaking of these last days, "Let no man deceive you..." In order to insure being able to do that, to insure no man can deceive us, we must know God's Word. Without it, we are without strength, without power to keep the deceiver at bay.

Deceptions are a dime a dozen. The truth will always cost the lives of many, not the least of which was Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ...

God bless you,

Apologetic for the length of this post, I am and remain sincerely yours in Jesus Christ,

Julabee Jones

[SIZE=16pt]I believe Jesus Christ is our plumb line. Only God can give one the true understanding of the Written Word of God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Jesus/Holy Spirit needs to be one’s teacher.[/SIZE]

(1 John 2: 27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you; the anointing he gave teaches you everything: you are anointed with truth, not with a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”