Who really created the Son of God?

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GodsGrace

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@GodsGrace

"For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him." Romans 6:9

Lots of issues there for you to contend with GC.

Jesus was dead (completely)
God raised him from the dead
He cannot die again (given immortality and LIFE)
Death had dominion over him, but deaths power (sin) has been broken in his obedient sacrifice

Lets assume you disagreed with the writer and said it was impossible for death to have dominion over Christ?

Where does that place you and your hope?

1 Corinthians 15:45 "So it is written: 'The first man Adam became a living being'; the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit."

Paul understood the nature of Christ differently than you because he understood two realities.

Jesus' nature had to be exactly the same as yours.
Jesus was given eternal life and became a life-giving Spirit because those who come through him to the Father can now obtain life.

Now, can you truly engage with these truths in a meaningful way? I doubt it, because you filter everything through your formulas, and in doing so, you make the Word of no affect.
Hidden
YOU also filter through YOUR formulas.
Which are heretical BTW.

But the above has just been answered in the psot to you before this one.

YOU have problems due to your heretical belief that Jesus is not God....

Once you accept that - which includes accepting the Trinity -
all will become clear to you.

It is YOU that has explaining to do.
I do not.

I'm within the confines of the Christian religion.

It is YOU that is trying to destroy what many have died to uphold.

As to 1 Cor 15:45
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[a]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.




Does Jesus not give us life?



John 14:6
6Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Romans 6:23
23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 8:12
12Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”




Why do you see "problems" where none exist?
This is desperaton.
 

GodsGrace

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There are some insightful posters in this community but you're not one of them. You're toxic to other members, you have a monolithic ego and you destroy fun discussion. Goodbye.
I'm not here to have fun sir.
I'm here to protect the Christian religion from heretics.

And you're being rather mean to someone that tried to be very nice to you
and engage in conversation.

You're free to go speak to the "INSIGHTFUL POSTERS" ( your term) that are also heretical.

Or, you might want to join the Christian religion - as taught by Jesus and the Apostles.
 

GodsGrace

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I've written numerous times how doctrine, itself, is the most common form of IDOLATRY in Christendom today. I doubt our Lord or the Most High God, his Father YHWH, are pleased. It must grieve the Holy Spirit OF God.

The message of Scripture is divinely simple. Our human mind seems to prefer the devil in the details of complexity. Interpretation. Translation. Revision. Tradition. They should UNITE but they are the seeds of DIVISION and DIVISIVENESS. We prefer manmade doctrine, calling it "Scripturally supported" AS IF that saves us! We want to be right more than we want to relate. That's ego - not death to self! Our Lord spoke of the most important commandments. Divinely simple: Love God. Love Others. We can't handle the truth. We can't handle the divine truth. We can't handle the simplicity of divine doctrine. We are compelled to complicate the hell out of it - then fight endlessly over it.

Our search for truth leads to vitriol towards others. This thread and others like it manifest acrimony. Posters like @GodsGrace are so IDOLATROUS that they are fond of saying if you don't subscribe to my IDOL, you are not even a Christian. Such IDOLATRY has kept me from the faith for decades! I'm sure it keeps others away as well.

In another forum, not all about religion has a religious section. The moderators observed the fighting is MUCH more severe than in all the other subforms combined. Because the reporting of the constant hate towards each other, the moderators stopped the algorithms for people searching to find ANYTHING in the subform - and that includes finding our testimony of Christ. What is the world supposed to make of all this infighting? We cannot be of God as we flatter ourselves to be. Our manmade doctrines are more of this world than anything else. This is our true testimony. The worst of the hypocrites and the world knows it.

The Buddha said Calling things by their proper name is the beginning of wisdom. Our Lord commanded us to love each other as he loved us and by this, the world will know we are his disciples. Acrimony over doctrine is not love. It's IDOLATRY. As a child, I didn't know what idolatry was as making a golden calf and worshipping it in the 10 Commandments film seemed absurd. Now I know.

View attachment 78726

This will be my last post in this thread.
Well, actually Wrangler YOU are the idolator.
It is YOU who believes in some guy named Jesus.
But He's NOT GOD.

The very essence of idolatry.
Worshipping A MAN.

When I state that some belief is a heresy,,,it's because IT IS.

I'm trying to get everyone to understand that CHRISTIANITY is a RELIGION.
Do you know what religion means?

Well, I would like it to be a RELIGION.
I used to dislike this word - noting a difference between RELIGION and FAITH.

But, know what, RELIGION is a good word.
You might already know what it means.
IF you do...why do you not agree as to keeping to its meaning?

If you do NOT agree as to its meaning...
then I can understand why you're so bent on trying to get others to believe your heretical views.

Confused?
Work it out.
 

GodsGrace

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I've written numerous times how doctrine, itself, is the most common form of IDOLATRY in Christendom today. I doubt our Lord or the Most High God, his Father YHWH, are pleased. It must grieve the Holy Spirit OF God.

The message of Scripture is divinely simple. Our human mind seems to prefer the devil in the details of complexity. Interpretation. Translation. Revision. Tradition. They should UNITE but they are the seeds of DIVISION and DIVISIVENESS. We prefer manmade doctrine, calling it "Scripturally supported" AS IF that saves us! We want to be right more than we want to relate. That's ego - not death to self! Our Lord spoke of the most important commandments. Divinely simple: Love God. Love Others. We can't handle the truth. We can't handle the divine truth. We can't handle the simplicity of divine doctrine. We are compelled to complicate the hell out of it - then fight endlessly over it.

Our search for truth leads to vitriol towards others. This thread and others like it manifest acrimony. Posters like @GodsGrace are so IDOLATROUS that they are fond of saying if you don't subscribe to my IDOL, you are not even a Christian. Such IDOLATRY has kept me from the faith for decades! I'm sure it keeps others away as well.

In another forum, not all about religion has a religious section. The moderators observed the fighting is MUCH more severe than in all the other subforms combined. Because the reporting of the constant hate towards each other, the moderators stopped the algorithms for people searching to find ANYTHING in the subform -

Gee.
Maybe if we all agreed with the Apostles and the early church we wouldn't be "fighting" over who Jesus is !

Maybe it's those that DO NOT believe what the Apostles taught and what the early church taught that are causing all the dispute?

WHY are you blaming those that are following the teachings of the Apostles?
Shouldn't you be blaming those that to NOT ADHERE to those teachings and are trying to change the CHRISTIAN religion?

And there is no talk relating to spirituality here.
You and God can figure out your spirituality.

I'm talking about saving the CHRISTIAN RELIGION from those that would destroy it.
and that includes finding our testimony of Christ. What is the world supposed to make of all this infighting? We cannot be of God as we flatter ourselves to be. Our manmade doctrines are more of this world than anything else. This is our true testimony. The worst of the hypocrites and the world knows it.

The Buddha said Calling things by their proper name is the beginning of wisdom. Our Lord commanded us to love each other as he loved us and by this, the world will know we are his disciples. Acrimony over doctrine is not love. It's IDOLATRY. As a child, I didn't know what idolatry was as making a golden calf and worshipping it in the 10 Commandments film seemed absurd. Now I know.

View attachment 78726

This will be my last post in this thread.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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It is a man-made philosophical mystery that has obscured the original Gospel and misled the masses.
Sure, if you believe that, then you must think the Holy Spirit was not influential enough, not powerful enough, unable to guide and teach 97% of the Body of Christ to believe in what is a crucial and fundamental concept of God.
The primary purpose in life _ for His chosen Sheep _ is to be reconciled to God through Christ at some point in their lives. So knowing who God/ Christ is would be on the top of His list - don't you think?
Another fundamental truth about God is that God is sovereign. So given that, YOU would and must conclude this sovereignty does not influence our beliefs about God and therefore God is not the Author of our faith, since our faith is absurd, confused and misled as to Whom we actually believe in.
 
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GodsGrace

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Sure, if you believe that, then you must think the Holy Spirit was not influential enough, not powerful enough, unable to guide and teach 97% of the Body of Christ to believe in what is a crucial and fundamental concept of God.
The primary purpose in life _ for His chosen Sheep _ is to be reconciled to God through Christ at some point in their lives. So knowing who God/ Christ is would be on the top of His list - don't you think?
Another fundamental truth about God is that God is sovereign. So given that, YOU would snd must conclude this sovereignty does not influence our beliefs about God and so God is not the Author of our faith, since our faith is absurd, confused and misled as to Whom we actually believe in.
Great points RDB !
:thumbsupx1
 

JLB

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No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. John 1:18... Oh my! I guess Yeshua lied?
Either way Yeshua was not there.

No one has seen God the Father.

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18


Thank you for proving my point.


Moses and Abraham as well as others who saw the LORD in the Old Testament were seeing God the Son.


Jesus Christ is God who became flesh.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


It was the Son who became flesh.
 

GodsGrace

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Thank you, but I doubt it will persuade them. I guess we are just hoping to persuade any newborn sheep from going down that path if they happen to pass by.
Exactly.
The deceived cannot be convinced.
They are not following the true Jesus...the one in the NT of which the Apostles wrote.

But they also cannot be let free to denigrate the Christian faith.

And new Christians must make sure they're following Christianity,
and not some heretical belief system, invented by men a couple of hundred years ago.


2 Timothy 3:7-14
7
always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith.
9 But they will not
make further * progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes's and Jambres's folly was also.
10 Now you followed my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, perseverance,
11 persecutions, and sufferings, such as happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra; what persecutions I endured, and out of them all the Lord rescued me!
12 Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.
13 But evil men and impostors
will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned
them,
 

Justified

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I am just doing what you are doing....If you do not like it.....Stop it.
You claimed that there are over 100 verses that prove the Trinity false and listed a lot of verses. I addressed several of them, none of which probe the Trinity false, but rather show, as do other statements you have made, that you don’t understand the doctrine of the Trinity at all. I can address more if you want, but I don’t have the time to respond to all those verses. Not that it matters since the answers are likely to be the same or similar.

You have also avoided addressing verses I have given that prove the only biblical position is that there is only one true God in the entire Bible; the existence of three such Gods is absolutely ruled out.

I’m sticking to what the Bible states and responding to your arguments. So, no, you’re not at all doing what I’m doing.
 
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Grailhunter

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No one has seen God the Father.

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18


Thank you for proving my point.


Moses and Abraham as well as others who saw the LORD in the Old Testament were seeing God the Son.


Jesus Christ is God who became flesh.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


It was the Son who became flesh.

LOL I did not prove your point. But if it makes you feel better.....
 

Grailhunter

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You claimed that there are over 100 verses that prove the Trinity false and listed a lot of verses. I addressed several of them, none of which probe the Trinity false, but rather show, as do other statements you have made, that you don’t understand the doctrine of the Trinity at all. I can address more if you want, but I don’t have the time to respond to all those verses. Not that it matters since the answers are likely to be the same or similar.

You have also avoided addressing verses I have given that prove the only biblical position is that there is only one true God in the entire Bible; the existence of three such Gods is absolutely ruled out.

I’m sticking to what the Bible states and responding to your arguments. So, no, you’re not at all doing what I’m doing.

I did not claim there are over a hundred verses that prove the 3 in 1 Trinity formula false....I posted them.
And nothing you provided proves your point.
But again if you could just post 5 verses that specifically point to the 3 in 1 formula being correct......go for it.
Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.....Not baptize them in the name of GOD.

How not to understand the scriptures and not get to the truth.....
You do not want to go to the scriptures to find a doctrine....
You do not want to superimpose your beliefs on the scriptures.
As a preacher once told me, you can pretty much find what you want in the scriptures. And he was right.
There are people that can find a few scriptures to support the 3 in 1 God formula for the Trinity.
There are people that can find a few scriptures that suggest that the Holy Spirit is not a God, just Yahweh's Spirit.
There are people that can find a few scriptures that suggest that Yeshua is not a God.
There are people that can find a few scriptures to support the Original Sin doctrine.

The key words are "a few scriptures" It best to formulate beliefs on the majority of scriptures and the whole storyline. If you find yourself "cherry picking scriptures" or wanting to change the meaning of words to support your belief you are going the wrong direction.
Let the scriptures teach you, let the scriptures inform you. Don't try to teach the Bible.

As a Theologian I do not care what the truth is, I am just seeking the truth.
Be good and do good.
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.
 

Justified

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I did not claim there are over a hundred verses that prove the 3 in 1 Trinity formula false....I posted them.
Except that you don’t even understand the doctrine of the Trinity, so none of those verse s prove the Trinity false.

And nothing you provided proves your point.
It sure does.

But again if you could just post 5 verses that specifically point to the 3 in 1 formula being correct......go for it.
That isn’t a claim I am making. I have consistently said that we have to take all that the Bible says into account, at the same time. Doing things piecemeal, as you and the other anti-Trinitarians are doing, will almost always lead to error.

People proof-text all the time to support erroneous beliefs. It’s been happening for thousands of years.

The Father is true deity; the Son is true deity; the Holy Spirt is true deity. Yet, they are all distinct one from the other. And the last important foundation—there is and always will be only one God.

Hence why the doctrine of the Trinity makes the most sense of the entire biblical revelation.

Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.....Not baptize them in the name of GOD.
One name that applies to three distinct persons. What other singular name could it be? It certainly cannot support tritheism—it’s one name for all three, not three names.

How not to understand the scriptures and not get to the truth.....
You do not want to go to the scriptures to find a doctrine....
You do not want to superimpose your beliefs on the scriptures.
Again, you must take your own advice.

As a preacher once told me, you can pretty much find what you want in the scriptures. And he was right.
Of course.

There are people that can find a few scriptures to support the 3 in 1 God formula for the Trinity.
There are people that can find a few scriptures that suggest that the Holy Spirit is not a God, just Yahweh's Spirit.
There are people that can find a few scriptures that suggest that Yeshua is not a God.
There are people that can find a few scriptures to support the Original Sin doctrine.
And there are people who can find three Gods, despite the absolute, explicit rejection of such an idea from the beginning to end of the Bible.

The key words are "a few scriptures" It best to formulate beliefs on the majority of scriptures and the whole storyline. If you find yourself "cherry picking scriptures" or wanting to change the meaning of words to support your belief you are going the wrong direction.
Let the scriptures teach you, let the scriptures inform you. Don't try to teach the Bible.
Again, you need to heed your own advice.

As a Theologian I do not care what the truth is, I am just seeking the truth.
Be good and do good.
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.
I find it hard to believe you are seeking truth when you refuse to address scriptures and arguments both in favour of opposing views and against your view.

Again, you not only do not understand the doctrine of the Trinity and so continue to try and refute a straw man, the Bible repeatedly and explicitly refutes tritheism, from beginning to end.
 
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Grailhunter

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Except that you don’t even understand the doctrine of the Trinity, so none of those verse s prove the Trinity false.


It sure does.


That isn’t a claim I am making. I have consistently said that we have to take all that the Bible says into account, at the same time. Doing things piecemeal, as you and the other anti-Trinitarians are doing, will almost always lead to error.

People proof-text all the time to support erroneous beliefs. It’s been happening for thousands of years.

The Father is true deity; the Son is true deity; the Holy Spirt is true deity. Yet, they are all distinct one from the other. And the last important foundation—there is and always will be only one God.

Hence why the doctrine of the Trinity makes the most sense of the entire biblical revelation.


One name that applies to three distinct persons. What other singular name could it be? It certainly cannot support tritheism—it’s one name for all three, not three names.


Again, you must take your own advice.


Of course.


And there are people who can find three Gods, despite the absolute, explicit rejection of such an idea from the beginning to end of the Bible.


Again, you need to heed your own advice.


I find it hard to believe you are seeking truth when you refuse to address scriptures and arguments both in favour of opposing views and against your view.

Again, you not only do not understand the doctrine of the Trinity and so continue to try and refute a straw man, the Bible repeatedly and explicitly refutes tritheism, from beginning to end.

Theologians do not do piece meal or cherry picking. So silly for you to say that.

The confusion with the one God thing is complicated, but in short there is one supreme God....Yahweh.
The Apostles and Yeshua made this clear. A lot of times they would refer to Yahweh as God and Yeshua as Lord, sometime in the same sentence. In fact Yeshua referred to Yahweh as His God. But there is more reasons for this.

The 3 in 1 formula is a doctrine of the 4th century Roman Catholic Church that was forced on Christianity upon pain of excommunication or death.

The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible.

The 3 in 1 formula is absolutely not a scriptural teaching.

I refuse to address scriptures.....It is you that refuse to address scriptures or even provide scriptures to support it.

I have given you the opportunity to produce scripture that specifically defines the 3 in 1 formula but you have not. I am sure if you tried real hard you could come close with one. But that is up against over a hundred scriptures that prove the the 3 in 1 formula wrong.
 

JustMe

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The study and threat focus must go on....

Acts 2:36 — Peter stated, “God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord (master) and Christ (his Messiah),” highlighting Yeshua’s standing with his Father, suggesting Yeshua’s humanity, non-divine nature, with only outer godlike characteristics from his Father, and his subordination to him, his God.

People who focus on an exaggerated view of Yeshua often misunderstand the true nature of the Christ and what being the Messiah truly means. They may believe that his anointing was merely a formal endorsement, a mark of approval designating him to serve God, his Father. However, it is far deeper than that; it forms the foundation of the gospel’s core message, revealing the true identity of Yeshua, the Son of Man, as the Son of God and the authentic one-of-a-kind Messiah.

It is vital to know and place faith in the true Son of God for salvation.
 
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JustMe

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Paul knew of these "types" of believers! One's that are so immature in the faith that they are UNABLE in consuming meat, let alone trying to digest it!
And so hardened in their tradition/s that even those that try and chew it up to be partook of are called "heretics, cultists!" Trying to start a new religion!
They don't, or can't even understand what "born AGAIN of the Spirit" means!
So, that which they don't or unable to understand? They are against!
-smh
Thank you for your support. And what you posted, could have easily been another of my posts.
 
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GodsGrace

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The study and threat focus must go on....

Acts 2:36 — Peter stated, “God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord (master) and Christ (his Messiah),” highlighting Yeshua’s standing with his Father, suggesting Yeshua’s humanity, non-divine nature, with only outer godlike characteristics from his Father, and his subordination to him, his God.

People who focus on an exaggerated view of Yeshua often misunderstand the true nature of the Christ and what being the Messiah truly means. They may believe that his anointing was merely a formal endorsement, a mark of approval designating him to serve God, his Father. However, it is far deeper than that; it forms the foundation of the gospel’s core message, revealing the true identity of Yeshua, the Son of Man, as the Son of God and the authentic one-of-a-kind Messiah.

It is vital to know and place faith in the true Son of God for salvation.
Thankfully YOU are here to teach the Christian faith...
it was just not taught properly until just very very recently.

And yes...if we are trusting a different Jesus??


John 8:24
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that [a]I am He, you will die in your sins.”
 

JustMe

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The study and threat focus must go on....

Acts 2:36 — Peter stated, “God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord (master) and Christ (his Messiah),” highlighting Yeshua’s standing with his Father, suggesting Yeshua’s humanity, non-divine nature, with only outer godlike characteristics from his Father, and his subordination to him, his God.

People who focus on an exaggerated view of Yeshua often misunderstand the true nature of the Christ and what being the Messiah truly means. They may believe that his anointing was merely a formal endorsement, a mark of approval designating him to serve God, his Father. However, it is far deeper than that; it forms the foundation of the gospel’s core message, revealing the true identity of Yeshua, the Son of Man, as the Son of God and the authentic one-of-a-kind Messiah.

It is vital to know and place faith in the true Son of God for salvation.
And to reinforce the significance of placing faith in the true Messiah and Son of the living God, we can use the scripture already provided by another poster.

(Joh 8:24) I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don't believe that I AM, you will die in your sins."
(Joh 8:25) They asked, "Then who are you?" Jesus answered, "I am what I have told you from the beginning.
(Joh 8:26) I have much more I could say to judge you. But I tell people only what I have heard from the one who sent me, and he speaks the truth."
(Joh 8:27) They did not understand who he was talking about. He was telling them about the Father.
(Joh 8:28) So he said to them, "You will lift up the Son of Man. Then you will know that I AM. You will know that whatever I do is not by my own authority. You will know that I say only what the Father has taught me.
(Joh 8:29) The one who sent me is with me. I always do what pleases him. So he has not left me alone."
(Joh 8:30) While he was saying these things, many people believed in him. (ERV)

In verse 24 Yeshua insists the people know who he is, else without this knowledge and truth, they will not have the opportunity to believe in him, and consequently their sins will not be forgiven upon their death.

So they ask him who are you, in verse 25. And Yeshua replies, I already told you from/at the beginning, of our discussions or when he first met them.

And in the beginning of his discussions is verse 12, he said he was the light of the world (and only while he was on the earth).

Then this is linked to Isaiah 42:6 and 49:6; to the Father making Yeshua his salvation, his Messiah as the light of the world.

John 8:24 =>John 8:25 => John 8:12=> Isaiah 42:6 and 49:6

I am what/who I spoke about from the beginning, as the light of the world. The Father planned and spoke of him as the Messiah in Isaiah.

Yeshua, the Messiah of God, where his father’s spirit and word/logos possessed his own spirit, emphasizing that Yeshua spoke from and for God, as his agent.

Furthermore, ‘the light of the world’ is not limited to Yeshua’s physical presence on Earth. While Jesus states, "While I am in the world, I am the light of the world" (John 9:5), his presence continues through the Spirit of his Father, who dwells in believers today. They truly believe in the tru Messiah as they possess the Spirit of the Father, through the Christ.

Joh 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to the crowd, saying: I am the light of the world. He that follows me shall not walk in the darkness but shall have the light of life.
(Isa 42:6) I, Yahweh, have called you in righteousness, and will hold your hand and will keep you, and make you a covenant for the people, as a light for the nations;

(Isa 49:6) yes, He says, It is too light a thing that you should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give you for a light to the nations, that you may be My salvation to the end of the earth.

This light is identified as "the light of truth," "the light of Christ," and the "Spirit of Christ," which quickens understanding and enables individuals to discern good from evil.

The light is spiritual, illuminating the human soul and guiding individuals toward righteousness and truth by his Father’s presence in his Son.

Then Yeshua, in verses 26 - 29, speaks about his God, his Father. Yeshua is again hinting about who he is, as his position with and the work of his Father, who is God.

The light that came into the world is described as the source of life and truth, and its presence exposes evil deeds, as those who do wicked things hate the light and avoid it.

In verse 28 Yeshua broadcasts to the people he is the Son of Man, a human being, a human person.

In verses 28 and 29, by strong inference, Yeshua is also saying he is the anointed one, the Messiah of God as he could DO NOTHING without him. Yeshua, the man had to be anointed or become the Messiah of God, filled with the power of his Father in order to succeed to the Cross. Yeshua had no power or authority in himself or independently, he depended solely on his Father, who is the one God. Yeshua performed his work as the special human being separated by God for this special mission. He was born to become the agent of God, to speak the word/logos of God to execute the human sacrifice portion of God's plan for salvific restoration.

And then in verse 30, many knew Yeshua was a man, a human person born of God and also the Messiah of God. And many consequently then believed on him as the true Messiah, and did not die in their sins, as his Father God told his Son. They never thought he was YHWH for one moment in the process of believing in him. Only as only the true Son of God and the Father's Messiah!

That's who I am Yeshua would say
 
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Hiddenthings

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Where is this in Scripture?
All over the place - Abraham looked forward to my day and was glad! Jesus was pre-emenent in the mind of the Father when you are told he was a lamb slain from the foundation of the world...man I could go on and on. The fact you need to ask this question highlights how deceived you have become - its credal drunkenness.
 
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