So if you were to enter a Christian Church, during a sermon, Would you be observing a "Christian" community?
God Bless,
Taken
Who sins?
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So if you were to enter a Christian Church, during a sermon, Would you be observing a "Christian" community?
God Bless,
Taken
Your error.
I have no shame for asking YOU questions.
And no I did not call God a liar.
I agree with Scripture.
1)
Other men called followers of Jesus' teachings Christians.
Today;
1) other men call followers of Jesus' Teachings Christians.
2) men following Jesus' Teachings, believing and doubting, call themselves Christians.
3) men Comitted VIA a VOW having given their life in heartfelt BELIEF, call themselves,
Born Again Christians.
4) A Born Again Christian is a man WHO;
Is forgiven
Is washed
Is sanctified
Is covered
Is Saved
Is freed from sin
Is converted
Is a NEW creature
Is forever WITH the Lord
I would call your Words "Christian community" "followers of Jesus' teachings".
And out of those "followers" some TRUST and give their life to the Lord and thus become Converted, and some do not.
You lump them all together.
The Lord Divides the Converted from the Unconverted.
Then you seem to be unable to comprehend the Teachers/ Apostles, were speaking and writing to "those hearing for the first time" ,"followers", "those converted", "those not converted".... Just like those who fill the pews today in any Church that a Preacher addresses.
The individuals hearing KNOWS where They stand and what Applies to them or Not.
It is no different with me.
I know where I stand, according to my own choices I have made.
It is not to my shame or ignorance...
You do not comprehend;
1)a Converted man is free from sin, By the Power and Authority of God.
2) You DO not know which teaching does or does not Apply to a Converted man.
3) Your attempting To Apply teachings To Other men, Who ARE Converted, which does not apply.
A Converted man ALREADY confessed His Sins TO the Lord.
The Lord Forgave the mans SINS,
The Lord Freed the man from his Sins,
The Lord covered the mans SINS,
The Lord remembers the mans SINS no more.
Why do you think YOUR attempting TO apply scriptures To me, That do not apply, Has one iota consequence to me?
Were you included in MY conversion?
Uh no you were not!
You want to claim you are a NEW creature, yet continue To not believe and treat the Lord, thus continue To stand In your Sin Against God.... that would be you, Not me.
GodsGrace:
A Christian Community is classically a denomination or the gathering of people to serve and worship God. Though this truly cannot be called a Christian Community because half the people may not be true believers. God knows that most gatherings of people to worship him will be comprised of true believers and professing believers, that are unbelievers. When the new fledgling communities arose, there were always a mixture of unbelievers and believers in them.
It has not changed today, even though many have club cards, loyalty and merit badges to show their Christian values and civic worth as part of and representing their Christian religion and organization to the world.
God and Christ only know their people scattered throughout the world.
Bless you,
APAK
I understand a Christian community to be , for example, the church I attended this morning.
But I think you're right. To be called a Christian Community EVERYONE would have to be Christian, or a true believer, as you called it.
Another person Used that term...
I asked that person About his term.
Want to know what he meant by his term, ask him.
OP ---> Who sins?
Those WHO Do Not have the Spirit of God IN Them.
Those WITHOUT the Spirit of God IN Them ARE NOT a New Creature, nor ARE they Freed FROM SIN.
God Bless,
Taken
Those WHO Do Not have the Spirit of God IN Them.
Those WITHOUT the Spirit of God IN Them ARE NOT a New Creature, nor ARE they Freed FROM SIN.
God Bless,
Taken
I am hopefull that some if not most would be part of Jesus's bride, the church.
your post no 28. either an error/mistake on your part or an attempt to distort what scripture says.
A I've already quoted the scripture and you are denying it, it seems to me that you are distorting scripture.
I quote a version of Scripture You CHOSE and Quoted a version of a Scripture I CHOSE and Asked You if you believe there was a difference in the meaning.
Didn't see a response from you to that question.
Did SEE you saying I was mistaken and should feel shame.
I do not feel shame because of your opinion.
@APAK
Did you overlook my post #20 on this thread? I have quoted it below for easy reference. Thanks:
So then the question from the other direction: Who does not sin?
"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Heb 4:15
But then Jesus was always perfect toward God. He never stumbled.
Are any of us perfect? Yes! But that is perhaps a different question than, Who is sinless?
Are any of us sinless? All of us have sinned, but are all of us necessarily continuing to sin in any measure? No, unless Jesus came for nothing and/or He is a liar!
Paul wrote:
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6:23
So then if after receiving the Life that Jesus is, can we sin again? I would say, yes, but when we do then have we not gone back into the death from which we came out? Have we then lost all hope? While as the following verses indicate it is not a good thing:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." Heb 6:4-6
It is not a completely hopeless situation that cannot be reversed:
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" I John 2:1
So then who sins? Believers in God who have repented? Certainly at times, but they are not left hopeless unless... Unless what?
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." I Cor 10:13
To me those words mean God understanding our frailties even after we have become believers and have received the gift of the Holy Ghost does not and will not let us take on the final wages of sin [unending death] without an opportunity [or even more than one opportunity] to escape back into His waiting arms. Time and again we who have received Truth have stumbled and fallen and sinned, but God has accepted our renewed commitment and taken us back into His fold. If we, however, quit going back to Him; or we presume that we cannot go back so we don't try; or we presume that He will never stop forgiving us so we purposely return repeatedly to sin; the final result may be quite different,... no?
So then again, who sins? When is the sin we commit subject a final judgment under Rom 6:23?
We all have sinned and apparently those who have been "saved" also at times sin... but... Yes, but...
How many times can we sin? Or better asked perhaps, how many times can we sin after we have repented, received the Holy Ghost and surrendered ourselves to God?
How many times will God take us back to Him? I do have an answer to this last question, but I purposely leave it unanswered for other to consider it carefully...
Did you overlook my post #20 on this thread? I have quoted it below for easy reference. Thanks:
So then the question from the other direction: Who does not sin?
"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Heb 4:15
But then Jesus was always perfect toward God. He never stumbled.
Are any of us perfect? Yes! But that is perhaps a different question than, Who is sinless?
Are any of us sinless? All of us have sinned, but are all of us necessarily continuing to sin in any measure? No, unless Jesus came for nothing and/or He is a liar!
Paul wrote:
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6:23
So then if after receiving the Life that Jesus is, can we sin again? I would say, yes, but when we do then have we not gone back into the death from which we came out? Have we then lost all hope? While as the following verses indicate it is not a good thing:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." Heb 6:4-6
It is not a completely hopeless situation that cannot be reversed:
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" I John 2:1
So then who sins? Believers in God who have repented? Certainly at times, but they are not left hopeless unless... Unless what?
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." I Cor 10:13
To me those words mean God understanding our frailties even after we have become believers and have received the gift of the Holy Ghost does not and will not let us take on the final wages of sin [unending death] without an opportunity [or even more than one opportunity] to escape back into His waiting arms. Time and again we who have received Truth have stumbled and fallen and sinned, but God has accepted our renewed commitment and taken us back into His fold. If we, however, quit going back to Him; or we presume that we cannot go back so we don't try; or we presume that He will never stop forgiving us so we purposely return repeatedly to sin; the final result may be quite different,... no?
So then again, who sins? When is the sin we commit subject a final judgment under Rom 6:23?
We all have sinned and apparently those who have been "saved" also at times sin... but... Yes, but...
How many times can we sin? Or better asked perhaps, how many times can we sin after we have repented, received the Holy Ghost and surrendered ourselves to God?
How many times will God take us back to Him? I do have an answer to this last question, but I purposely leave it unanswered for other to consider it carefully...
No, I didn’t overlook your post of over 2 ½ months ago because I did not see in it that you wanted me to specifically reply to any of your nine questions. I understood them as rhetorical, and you were just explaining your view of the topic. You seem to have answered all your own questions in that post anyway.
So, I gather you want me to answer all nine questions? Let me try and summarize it all and answer it that way.
Every human being, except Jesus, sinned or sins. Jesus is sinless. Those in Christ, their sins do not count for condemnation and they become less sinful and more perfect over time. We do not go back into death and without hope because we are dead to sin as it was crucified on the cross as we were baptized in him. It’s a ‘dead’ issue for those in Christ.
Your quote of Heb 6:4-6 is about losing a type of self-based faith of Christ, applied to one that never really was a true believer. There were many Judahites that straddled the fence and never really committed themselves to Christ. They returned to the force of the law once again.
God never leaves a believer when he/she sins. Many have this idea that God keeps taking us back and this is not true. He never leaves us. His spirit one at home within us never leaves, regardless of the sin and its number because God does NOT see sin in us anymore. Only the world considers us as one of them, sinners, and we are not one of them and we are not sinners anymore.
And we are never under a death penalty when a believer sins as in Romans 6:23
I hope I covered your post, Amadeus
All the Best brother,
APAK
Sorry it is just that only one person acknowledged initially that I had posted anything. I presumed, wrongly it seems, that in the rush of things you simply overlooked it. Thank you for clarifying. I only just noticed it earlier today and decided to bump it forward.
No, I expected no such thing. I simply misunderstood the "no response at all" since it was your thread.
Thank you for clarifying this. We do disagree on at least one point, but that's OK. On most things we do usually agree. I understand what you are saying and see no point in pursuing it further presently.
Ultimately I agree and the shades of difference would probably not be recognized by some and cause needless confusion in any case. In a real case, as opposed to a hypothetical one, I might take issue but only if I were given a reason to do so.
My apologies for the lack of understanding on my part.
Give God the glory!
Let me know what you have on your mind. I will answer my view anytime for you, even in a more detailed response. Has it anything to do with your past, sin and rededication...just wondering...
APAK
Long ago when my mind was better I found an answer, not with my mind but with my heart regarding the double minded being, which is man, the follower of Jesus. My mind simply helps me go through the details and explain, but that ability is certainly diminished due to my declining mental function.
The double minded consists of the leftover, the old man, and the new or inner man come into being when we really meet the Master [born again or from above?]. You say that we can never go back into death once we have found or have been given Life, but that is where we seemingly disagree. I respect you too much from what I read here on this forum to push hard against you.
No, I personally have never gone completely back into death, but I have approached it at times. Once for about 10 years I slowly or perhaps even reversed directions.
Impossible to go back? I won't say nay, but the good thing is that once having really tasted or seen or heard what God has for me, going back would be such a very foolish thing for me or for anyone to do. But who says that man is not foolish? Consider what Adam, the first one according to scripture, had. One simple requirement to keep what he had and go on to more by eating of the Tree of Life, but he messed up. Are we so much better than he?
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