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Who Uncovered The Nakedness Of Noah?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by whirlwind, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    After the flood.....

    Genesis 9:21-24 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.​

    Much more is being said than Ham seeing his naked daddy.

    Leviticus 18:3,6,8 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances. (6) None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD. (8) The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.​

    The three sons of Noah are listed in the order of "Shem, Ham, and Japeth: and unto them were sons born after the flood." [10:1] "And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan." [10:6]

    If Ham was the youngest of Noah's sons...why was he listed in that order?

    Bullinger wrote that "Japeth was the eldest." Ham was the middle son...and he believes Ham was termed "younger son" (in the following passage) as he was younger than Japeth, and "Shem was the youngest."

    That doesn't make any sense to me. Would it be written that Noah knew "what his younger son had done unto him," if it meant he knew what his son that was younger than Japeth, who was the eldest, had done? :blink:

    Genesis 9:22, 24-25 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. (24-25) And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him? And he said, "Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren." ​


    Why mention "Ham, the father of Canaan" and not Ham the father of....Cush, Mizraim and Phut...as well as Canaan? And too....Why curse Canaan and not Ham's other sons...why not curse Ham himself? I can only think of two reasons. Either Canaan was the result of what Ham did or....Canaan was the "younger son."

    Someone taught me that there is no term for biblical grandfathers, etc. Perhaps saying someone was your "son" could also mean your grandson in that time. Was Canaan referred to as Noah's "younger son?" But then, we have to contend with...."Ham...saw the nakedness...and told his two brethren."

    Did Ham see what happened ("saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren") and report it to his two brothers or did Ham commit the act? It didn't say "Ham uncovered his father's nakedness" but rather "Ham saw the nakedness."
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Your absoulutly right Whirl it does mean more "To Uncover your father Nakedness"
    is a common Hebrew Idiom (figure of speech) it means
    "To lie with your fathers wife" (to have a sexual relations)

    Shem and Japheth took a blanket and turned their heads, as they went in to cover their mother, after she had been defiled by Ham.
    The child, Canaan was the result of Ham's sinful act

    Leviticus 18:7, 8 "The nakedness of they father, or the nakedness of they mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness." [verse 7] "The nakedness of they father's wife shat thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness." [verse 8]

    Leviticus 20:11 "And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
     
  3. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    ham did not make noah naked. he simply walked in on him and saw him naked. ham did no wrong and should never have been punished.
     
  4. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    Snip,
    Read the OP
     
  5. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    what is the OP? original post? i read it and my reply is that ham was wrongly accused.
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    ????????????????????? What are you talking about Ham himself confesssed to his brothers what he had done which was to sleep (have sex) with his mother , the results was a child Canaan, this is why he was cursed.
    The term to your fathers nakedness has nothing to to with seeing anyone naked read what God's word says it is

    And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness:

    So you just decide God was not telling the truth because you have decided he was falsely accused ??? based on what ??
     
  7. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    well, please EXCUSE me. , i didnt get that at all. ill have to read it again.
     
  8. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    .20 And Noah began to be an husbandman [gardener], and he planted a vineyard:
    .21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
    22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
    23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. 21 - Drunken God was dishonored. Nakedness likewise was not in God's plan ge0321. Also compare hab0215, da0108note2.
    .24 ¶ And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

    im sorry, but i see nothing here to illude to any sexual act.
     
  9. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    read this please and reply

    http://apostjerome.org/articles/_article.php?article=100097
     
  10. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Yes now read for yourself what does Gods Word say that figure of speech means ?

    Leviticus 20:11 "And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

    Its a figure of speech God interpts his own word and you need to read more carefully even this jerome your listening to admits that the sin here was incest
    as this quote denotes "In fact, this interpretation does nothing to explain why Canaan should be cursed. It’s still not the kid’s fault he's a result of incest. ...... this is from your link

    God tells you exactly what it means he interpts his own word ....

    Today if you say "wow that car is cool" ...Its a figure of speech..... it doesnt mean the car is cold .... The bible is full of figures os speech ...Im certantainly not expecting you know them all .....
    but do expect you would want to pay attention when its shown to you in his word

    No one accused Ham of anything he confessed to his brothers what he had done in the language of the day ....


    We may not understand blaming the child for the fathers sin ... but that doesnt mean the sin didnt happen and that Ham was falsely accused
     
  11. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    what scripture makes you believe that ham's incident is the same a the leviticus one?

    ham did not uncover noah's nakedness.
     
  12. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    You're correct Sniper....Ham didn't uncover Noah....He "saw the nakedness." And, Ham wasn't the "younger son." For that reason I see Canaan as the culprit. I always assumed it was Ham but upon more careful reading see that it couldn't be. There was a reason Canaan was cursed by Noah.

    Christina is correct in pointing out Leviticus for it was the same incident as detailed there.
     
  13. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    no, not the same
    leviticus speaks of one "uncovering" the nakedness.

    ham, nor caanan did this.

    please post scripture that says that they did.
     
  14. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    Genesis 9:21-23 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken: and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japeth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and sent backward, and covered the nakedness of their father: and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
     
  15. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    its apparant that he uncovered himself. ham just happened to see him

    if i passed out drunk, naked on your couch and you walked in and saw me, would you be guilty of uncoveing my nakedness?
     
  16. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    Snip, Are you able to read the following Scripture? Do you understand what it is saying?

    Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

    When Ham “uncovered his father’s nakedness, Ham slept with his fathers wife, “Ham had intercourse with his father’s wife. Is that clearer?


    If you pass out drunk and I sleep with your wife: I have intercourse with your wife, I would have uncovered your nakedness.


    I will comment, this guy is an idiot! He has know idea what he is talking about.
     
  17. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    you guys are very near to blashphemy.

    unfoundedly accusing ham of adultery. what grounds? is it because somebody told you so.

    you should repent.

    listen to the word of god, not traditions of men
     
  18. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    snip,

    If you are unable to see, I can't help you. You are now added to my ignore list.
     
  19. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    oh no, the iggy list..........what will i do?

    does that mean youll go away? take your toys and go home.
     
  20. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I see what your saying Whirl but its just the way its written that it seems so,
    having a closer look Noah had 3 sons ..Shem Japheth and Ham

    18And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham
    is the father of Canaan. ( this only describes who Ham was)

    19These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread
    These three sons had no children before the flood

    Genesis 10
    1Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood

    6And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.

    we know Canaan was not born until after the flood he was the youngest of four
    Noah would have been their grandfather (even if as you say there was no word for grandfather you still have to much to explain

    24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had
    Ham was the Youngest son of Noah ....Noah saw what his youngest son had done.

    22And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
    The two brothers he told were Shem and Japheth ..... These would have been uncles to Canaan not brothers

    23And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

    Canaan's brothers were Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, ............. Not Shem and Japath ..................
     
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