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Featured Whoever is Born of God Sins Not

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by marks, Jul 1, 2019.

  1. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Argument? No, I simply stated what I believe. I do believe that anyone who has walked with God can choose to do what Adam and Eve did. They walked with God and yet chose to disobey Him. God is certainly no respecter of persons. Why would He allow
    them to die when they were walking with Him. They had the choice and so do we! We may choose to eat from either tree... but many who have encounter Jesus have seemingly also made the same choice as Adam and Eve.


    "For I am the LORD, I change not;... Mal 3:6

    "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34

    But you are speaking of the right to inherit as are the verses you cited. Jesus made it a possibility, but each of us has to walk with Him to the end of the road. That road has pitfalls that must be overcome. Alone it was for each of us an impossibility, but because He opened the Way and the outpouring of the Holy Ghost has provided us with access to the power of God in this, we can do it:

    "And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

    "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" Col 1:27

    If we do not endure with Him to the end of our course [our natural allotted time in this body of flesh] we will not inherit unending Life. Unending Life is given ONLY to overcomers. Jesus was an overcomer and each of us must also be an overcomer as He was...

    "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

    What world did Jesus overcome? Not planet Earth and the people thereon as we can see by looking around us even with our carnal eyes... Jesus overcame the temptations which assailed his carnal flesh. He made it possible for us to do the same... but we have it to do:

    "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Rev 2:7

    Overcome what? How about all that is in our own personal little world of flesh?

    "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world" I John 2:16
     
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  2. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    OK, thank you for your clarity. I do not find this teaching in the Bible.

    Actually, you were the one who brought up inheritance, not I. So I'll leave this for you to elaborate as you wish.

    God tells us that He wants us to be assured of our eternal life. He teaches us that we are dead and reborn. Our death and rebirth make us His children forever. And that which is born of God sins not.

    If we do not endure with Him until the end, we never had eternal life.

    Much love!
     
  3. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Enoch,

    I think amadeus settled the matter:

    So there ya go.

    Much love!
     
  4. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I thought you were a Bible student and a disciple of Christ.

    No, if you are really that disinterested in the pursuit of truth I will leave you to your 'druthers'.
    I only wish I were able to convince people of their danger when they have lost their love for truth, but only God gives any real increase. Neither you nor I can do it. Have a nice day.
    Give God the glory!
     
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  5. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi amadeus,

    What a disappointing example of the ad hominem.

    Pity we are not able to have a discussion.

    When I try to make it about Scripture, instead of vague allusions to things not actually stated, such as your assertion that "Adam lost his inheritance, therefore the born again child of God can likewise not be saved at the end", when I try to direct this towards what the Bible has to actually say, this is the response.

    Tell me please, what am I supposed to understand from these expressions? Do these sorts of comments give God glory?

    One more question if I may . . .

    How does this further the discussion of Scripture?

    Your views are, like certain other people's, present as a "gospel" of works. Start in faith, but finish in works. Hardly good news at all.

    Galatians 3
    1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
    2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
    4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
    5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

    Hebrews 12
    1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
    2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


    Please tell me amadeus, do you believe as some of these others that you cannot know whether God will accept you or not until after you are dead?

    Much love, and again in sadness.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  6. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Habakkuk 2
    2 And the Lord answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.
    3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
    4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

    Romans 1:17 "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

    Galatians 3:11 "But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.


    Hebrews 10
    37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
    38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
    39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


    Albert Barnes makes this comment: β€œThe just man, or the righteous man, shall live by his confidence in God.”

    Galatians 3:12 "And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them."

    The just shall live by faith, and the Law is not of faith.

    Romans 8
    1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
    3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


    God's answer . . . to provide an ark for our safety. In Christ we can survive the sentence of death.

    1 Peter 3
    18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
    21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


    Noah was saved through the judgment of the flood being in the ark. We are saved through the judgment of death being in Christ.

    Noah, having survived the flood, and having God's promise to not flood the earth again, was now safe from that.

    We, having survived death, die no more.

    Romans 6
    8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
    9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
    10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
    11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


    As Jesus also said, He who lives and believes in Me shall never die.

    We have passed from death into life, never to die again.

    Romans 4
    14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
    15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
    16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


    In order that all may partake, God made salvation to be through faith, not through law. Law only condemns, because all sin. The only way there is no transgression is if there is no law.

    But the Law had to be satisfied, and there's no winking, no pretending, righteousness is righteousness, and must be satisfied.

    We, being disobedient, must die. And In Christ we've died.

    So we have a new nature which is righteous and holy, and wants to do righteousness.
    We've been given power over our flesh, which has been executed.
    And we have been removed from the jurisdiction of the law.

    The Just shall live by faith, not by works, not by trying to do better, not by trying to keep from doing worse.

    Romans 4:21, of Abraham, "And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform."

    Are you persuaded?

    Jude
    24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
    25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

    1 Thessalonians 5
    23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

    1 Corinthians 1
    8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.


    So, can God do this?

    Can we walk without sin?

    I challenge anyone who questions this . . . the next time you are tempted to sin, look to Jesus, who is able to deliver.

    Law promotes sinfulness in humans. Recognition that we are dead to the Law gets us off that merry-go-round.

    Realizing that not only are we not guilty for anything done by our flesh, but likewise we will remain forever not guilty, because we are not that man of flesh, condemned under Law. We are children of God. Not His subjects, His children.

    Much love!
     
  7. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    @marks
    I am sorry you took my words that way. I really thought you were interested in discussion rather than in only wanting to win a debate. I don't want to win... not like that. I want rather to let go and let God take each of us to end of the road with Him. My mistake for jumping to conclusions about your purpose.

    "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts."
     
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  8. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Amadeus, I did not see where you wanted to discuss. Once I tried to bring it to the Bible, you just wanted to make it personal.

    OK, I do see where you want to discuss, buy only me, and that in a negative light. But that's not really discussion.

    You can say you want to discuss, but when you turn on me when I ask for a passage a Scripture, again, not really discussion.

    And you continue to just get personal.

    Amadeus, I've been at this too long to not see these sorts of things. Rather then engage the topic, you wish to "engage" me. My character, my style, whatever, but not the topic.

    It's too bad.

    The fact that I question an assertion, or ask for Biblical teaching on an assertion in no wise means I'm not interested in discussion, or only want to win a debate. A Biblical discussion.

    Your comments about me as person serve to spare you answering the difficult questions, such as, where is this found in the Bible?

    You'll notice I post much Scripture. I think it's important to make sure we're actually dealing with what God says.


    You wrote:
    Tell me please . . . how should I take these words?

    What is your answer?

    Much love!
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  9. aspen

    aspen β€œ"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Matt 18:16 tells us that we can and do sin and that anyone who leads us into sin will be better off with a millstone tied around their neck and thrown into the sea. Matt 18:17 goes on to tell us that temptation must come, but woe to the people it comes through.
     
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  10. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    I will try one last time. You apparently have not understood what I have said but I am not certain I am able to say it more clearly. Nevertheless one more time:

    In my initial post to your thread I posted a verse of scripture that related directly to your OP and then asked you questions based on the verse and your OP. You failed to answer them at all. What more should I have done? It was not my thread nor my OP but yours. My questions questioned the validity of your conclusions, because my verse of scripture seemed to contradict yours. but you still have never addressed them directly.

    This was one of your conclusions:
    I posted this verse which seems to contradict it:
    Now to me a "son of God" is born of God so then I asked the following questions for your take... but never received anything from you about it:

    ******************************


    A passage of scripture about what? You never answered my questions at all so what more could I say? What scriptures could I post that were meaningful?

    I don't believe that I did, get personal I mean, but if I did unnecessarily, I apologize. You say you want discuss. Are questions from your readers not allowed? I asked the first questions of you and you still have never answered them. What scriptures do you want?

    If you really believe that then you don't know me at all. You are reading things into my words which were not and are not there.
    A discussion is a two way street. I started from my side with a verse and some questions. And you still have never responded to even one of my several questions?
    Then you insist on scripture, but I still don't know what the subject of those verses should be or what it is they should be showing.


    There is a lack of communication between us. I cannot give you something when I have no idea what you are asking for...

    If you read many of my posts you will find that I also post much scripture. That alone does not mean we communicate. Answering my questions with or without scriptures would be a beginning.

    Since I do not know the context of those statements I cannot answer. I cannot be certain which words exactly are supposed to be mine. If I did write them please identify the post # so I have a clue. Again we are not communicating.
     
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  11. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi amadeus,

    I'm very reluctant to take much time for metacommunicating when trying standard communication seems at such a standstill. Suffice to say I am always interested in Bible based discussion as my presence and activity on this forum will well attest.

    But here again you direct the conversation to become about me instead of the topic. And not even the topic of this thread, my friend.

    Whosoever is born of God sins not.

    A clear and simple statement I wish to discuss. You seem to want to make it about something else.

    And you never did provide this.

    If you want to have a discussion about Scripture, let's do. But I'm not interested in an endless personal defense.

    You posted a Scripture that Adam was the son of God, and you want to talk about our losing our inheritance. OK, rather than Adam's geneology, how about Scripture which discusses our inheritance?

    As for my question of, what did you mean or intend in saying these things:

    This will allow you to more easily see where you said them.

    Much love!
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  12. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Aspen,

    You of course remind me of the "millstone" passage, and, considering what people do to children, it makes me shudder!

    Matthew 18
    15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
    16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
    17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


    This sure does seem to anticipate that there will be trespasses, does it not?

    Other places like 1 John 2, "If we sin, we have an advocate", say to me the same thing. That while God frees us from sin, even creating us holy and without sin, yet realizes that we won't apprehend that all at once.

    Much love!
     
  13. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    OK, I'm probably out till Monday, everybody have a great weekend!

    Much much love!
     
  14. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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  15. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Still trying to go up to heaven after you have died, huh?
    ok, never mind those vv i guess
     
  16. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    @marks

    One last and final apology on this and no further efforts since we are still not communicating. I am sorry for anything I said which you consider as personal and unnecessary. I could defend each of the three examples you provided or explain what I meant and why I said them, but I doubt you would understand and further problems would likely occur. So I won't. I am sorry and now I leave you to your discussion with others.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  17. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi amadeus, thank you, and I expect that you are correct in this.

    I too have no wish to offend.

    Much love!
     
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  18. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Too late for that i guess :)
     
  19. Nomad

    Nomad Post Tenebras Lux

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    Unfortunately, some English translations do not accurately convey John's meaning. Below is a quote from the English Standard Version.

    1Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
    1Jn 3:5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
    1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
    1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
    1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
    1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
    1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.


    Notice the use of "practice" and "keep on" in the ESV rendering. This is to highlight John's use of present tense verbs as found in the Greek text. The Greek present tense indicates continual, constant or on-going action. John is not saying that we never sin. See quote below. He is saying that those born of God do not live a life-style characterized by constant sinfulness. Rather, we are to live a life-style characterized by constant righteousness.

    1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    John's message is clear. We will occasionally trip and fall into sin, but we should never find ourselves living or walking in sin without repentance.
     
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  20. aspen

    aspen β€œ"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Yes. And, since we are all called to come to Jesus as little children, this verse applies to all
     
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