Whom Are Like-Minded With Me On Masturbation As A Work of the Flesh?

[FHII]

So masturbation means no pre rapture tribulation? Umm, I mean pre marriage supper rapture? Oh wait. Think I got it... no pre tribulation rapture and thus no plane ticket to the marriage supper. We'll have to take a bus or a train and get there late, I suppose.

All over masturbation... would it be ok if we wash our hands after that little act? Cause I know its important to wash your hands before eating.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

So masturbation means no pre rapture tribulation? Umm, I mean pre marriage supper rapture? Oh wait. Think I got it... no pre tribulation rapture and thus no plane ticket to the marriage supper. We'll have to take a bus or a train and get there late, I suppose.

All over masturbation... would it be ok if we wash our hands after that little act? Cause I know its important to wash your hands before eating.

There are other works of the flesh mentioned that unrepentive saved believers can be defrauded of his first inheritance like Esau was when giving up his birthright for a meal and like the prodigal son was when giving up his first inheritance for wild living. These two examples have been referenced in the NT as warnings to saved believers for not trusting Jesus as their Good Sheoherd in running that race by laying aside every weight & sin for the high prize of our calling to obtain the eternal glory that comes with our salvation which is to be received as a vessel unto honour in His House in attending the Marriage Supper of the Lamb held in His honour.

Believers are not aware that uncleanness is the Biblical term for today's man's term for masturbation. They rationalize that masturbation is not found in the Bible; but neither is the term homosexuality, and yet the scripture describing the act of homosexuality as an abomination is present just as the scripture describing the act of masturbation as uncleanness can be found as well.

Churches today have rationalized masturbation although in general teaching for abstaining from the works of the flesh, it is not mentioned.

Although most believers & churches would rather not address this sin, it goes to point why many are called but few are chosen to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb as those that do not look to Jesus for help to depart from iniquity will be received later on as vessels unto dishonour in His House, but not before there be weeping and gnashing of teeth over the loss of their first inheritance because once that door to the Marriage Supper is shut, no saved believer left behind will ever receive that high prize of attending the Marriage Supper in His honour ever again.

That is why the voice of the bride & bridegroom was no longer heard in fallen Babylon any more in Revelations 18th chapter.

Once again, running that race is not for salvation, but for discipleship so that by His grace & by His help, they shall be chosen to attend, and many saved believers need to wake up to applying faith in Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd to help them live as His disciple because God is coming to judge His House first at the pre tribulational rapture event since Jesus taught excommunication, so will the Bridegroom do to those saved believers that have gone astray and found not abiding in Him & His words as His disciples.

 

[ATP]

God is coming to judge His House first at the pre tribulational rapture event since Jesus taught excommunication

Question: If we already know the first resurrection precedes the rapture, and Satan will be bound right before the first resurrection then how can pre-tribulation rapture be true if Satan is still running around for 42 months? (Rev 13:5 NIV The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months.)

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Question: If we already know the first resurrection precedes the rapture, and Satan will be bound right before the first resurrection then how can pre-tribulation rapture be true if Satan is still running around for 42 months? (Rev 13:5 NIV The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months.)

That is only assuming your precedent is true. It is not. The first resurrection is not actually the first in Revelations because the use of the term first was only used to defer from the rest of the dead that shall be resurrected later on.

Revelations 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Those saints that are resurrected are the ones left behind as those partaking of the "first resurrection" are descriptive of having gone through the great tribulation and yet the O.T. saints did not go through the great tribulation.

Now you noted that Satan was defeated and thrown in the pit and then this resurrection which I say of great tribulational saints.

Then who are these saints that came back with Jesus to face Satan & his armies BEFORE Satan was thronw in the pit?

Zechariah 14:1Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

[ATP]

Revelations 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Those saints that are resurrected are the ones left behind as those partaking of the "first resurrection" are descriptive of having gone through the great tribulation and yet the O.T. saints did not go through the great tribulation.

I would think Rev 20:4-5 is speaking of all saints from the beginning of time until the great trib that have died or was beheaded , being that it's a vision. Rev 20:4 and 2 Thess 2:4 also mentions this idol worship to the Antichrist.

Also, 2 Thess 2:1-4 does speak of the great tribulation..(2 Thess 2:1-4 NIV Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.)

If you can show me that the first resurrection precedes the 3.5 year great trib, then you have convinced me. - ATP

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

If you can show me that the first resurrection precedes the 3.5 year great trib, then you have convinced me. - ATP

HOW can Jesus come back WITH the saints to defeat Satan and his armies in Zechariah 14:1-5 BUT yet AFTER the defeat of Satan and his armies, then this "first resurrection" takes place in Revelations 20:1-5?

( Which I point out that the description of those saints of this "first resurrection" are those having gone through the hour of trial that shall try all upon the earth with the mark of the beast system )

 

[ATP]

HOW can Jesus come back WITH the saints to defeat Satan and his armies in Zechariah 14:1-5..

Pulpit Commentary - http://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-1.htm

"It is impossible to fix on any historical fulfilment of this prophecy. The details suit neither Maccabean nor Roman times; the attempt to define exactly the period and matter of its accomplishment has proved a failure, and has led to a mingling of events of very different dates, and to a conglomeration of senses literal, metaphorical, and anagogical, which creates confusion while assuming to explain difficulties."

BUT yet AFTER the defeat of Satan and his armies, then this "first resurrection" takes place in Revelations 20:1-5?

Was Paul, James and John the Baptist not beheaded 2,000 year ago for their testimony of the Word of God?

Rev 20:4 ESV Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-4.htm

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them,.... Besides the throne of God the Father, and the throne of glory, on which the Son of God sits, and the twelve thrones for the twelve apostles of the Lamb; there will be thrones set, or pitched, for all the saints, Daniel 7:9 who will sit on them, in the character of kings, and as conquerors, and shall sit quiet, and undisturbed, and be in perfect ease, and peace, for they that sit on them are the same persons hereafter described in this verse; for after the binding of Satan, an account is given of the happiness and glory of the saints during that time:

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary - http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-4.htm

4, 5. they sat—the twelve apostles, and the saints in general.

judgment was given unto there—(See on [2740]Da 7:22). The office of judging was given to them. Though in one sense having to stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, yet in another sense they "do not come into judgment (Greek), but have already passed from death unto life."

( Which I point out that the description of those saints of this "first resurrection" are those having gone through the hour of trial that shall try all upon the earth with the mark of the beast system )

Question: What do you believe occurs on the "Day of the Lord" in 2 Thess 2:1-4 NIV.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Pulpit Commentary - http://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-1.htm

"It is impossible to fix on any historical fulfilment of this prophecy. The details suit neither Maccabean nor Roman times; the attempt to define exactly the period and matter of its accomplishment has proved a failure, and has led to a mingling of events of very different dates, and to a conglomeration of senses literal, metaphorical, and anagogical, which creates confusion while assuming to explain difficulties."

It is only difficult if you rule out the pre tribulational rapture.

Was Paul, James and John the Baptist not beheaded 2,000 year ago for their testimony of the Word of God?

Rev 20:4 ESV Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

My point is Paul, James, and John were not subjected to the mark of the beast system therefore there will be a beheading during the great tribulation of those saints.

See how important to have the right Bible for this;

Revelations 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. KJV

The ESV did not have "which" to associate the beheaded saints under the mark of the beast system. The ESV indirectly give the impression that the beheaded saints are not of the time of the great tribulation under the oppression of the mark of the beast system that they would be included with them.

 

[ATP]

It is only difficult if you rule out the pre tribulational rapture.

Even so, you would need to figure in the timeline for 2 Thess 2:1-4.

Revelations 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. KJV

The ESV did not have "which" to associate the beheaded saints under the mark of the beast system. The ESV indirectly give the impression that the beheaded saints are not of the time of the great tribulation under the oppression of the mark of the beast system that they would be included with them.

Well, it is said that when we are raptured we go immediately to the third heaven. After rapture we are now aloud to live in the third realm of heaven because we would have our resurrected bodies. So if these seals go in order right before the 3.5 year great trib, then the conclusion is the fifth seal is referring to the saints in the rapture and the first resurrection. But you would have to prove the seals do in fact go in order and you would need to prove the timeline of 2 Thess 2:1-4.

Rev 6:9-11 NIV When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,e were killed just as they had been.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Even so, you would need to figure in the timeline for 2 Thess 2:1-4.

The timeline for 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 and the rest of the chapter can be explained if you read it with new eyes, setting aside what you think you know and read it again seeing two events discussed in that chapter that is not going to happen at the same time because the falling away from the faith was happening even in Paul's day when he had said that the iniquity was already at work.

That means God has to judge His House first; that is at the pre trib rapture because of the falling away from the faith. Then He will deal with the man of sin at the brightness of His coming with the raptured saints. Then after the defeat of Satan & his armies, the resurrection of those unrepentant & wayward saints left behind along with new believers that have gone through the great tribulation will take place.

Well, it is said that when we are raptured we go immediately to the third heaven. After rapture we are now aloud to live in the third realm of heaven because we would have our resurrected bodies. So if these seals go in order right before the 3.5 year great trib, then the conclusion is the fifth seal is referring to the saints in the rapture and the first resurrection. But you would have to prove the seals do in fact go in order and you would need to prove the timeline of 2 Thess 2:1-4.

Rev 6:9-11 NIV When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,e were killed just as they had been.

You can discern this with His help, but when the breaking of the number of seals to open something, it means to me that the contents of each of the seal will happen all at once.

Babylon falls inbetween the angel with the everlasting gospel and the angel that gives the warning for the mark of the beast in Revelations 14:6-11. The description of Babylon falling with the left behind and new saints are in Revelations 18th chapter as they have been made to rest from theor labours.

That means alot of things are going to happen quick as per the calamity. This fire on the earth that burned up one third of the earth will be the entire western hemisphere. This is why USA is not in Biblical prophecy regarding Armegeddon in spite of what the Left Behind series would glamourize.

The three angels and the fie on the earthy will set up the hour of trial that shall try all on the earth. That is why the souls of those saints under the altar in having come out of the great tribulation has to wait a short season until the number of their fellow left behind saints and new saints join them.

I point out in Revelations 14:1-5, testify of the virgin men redeemed from the earth that will serve as Jesus personal choir. This is not saying they are the only ones raptured since obviously, there will be more, but just explaining who makes up Jesus's personal choir that follows Him around wherever He goes.

This ties in with Christ the firstfruits.. and that is plural by the way and not just referring to Christ, and then "they" that are Christ at His coming.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

There are three harvests that makes up the whole of the kingdom of heaven. The pre trib harvest; the post trib harvest, and the post Satan's last rebellion harvest at the end of the milleniel reign of Christ when death will be defeated for the last time too.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

 

[ATP]

Then after the defeat of Satan & his armies, the resurrection of those unrepentant & wayward saints left behind along with new believers that have gone through the great tribulation will take place.

What resurrection are you talking about here. You have the rapture preceding the first resurrection?? I don't see scripture stating a second resurrection or a second rapture.

It all comes down to whether you believe the first resurrection and rapture will occur on the "DAY OF THE LORD". And if that "Day" is a 24 hour period. The rebellion has been happening forever, but the Antichrist revealing himself is something new.

2 Thess 2:1-4 NIV Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Zech 14:1 NIV

It seems to me that Jerusalem will be plundered and destroyed at the end of the great trib, not the beginning.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

What resurrection are you talking about here. You have the rapture preceding the first resurrection?? I don't see scripture stating a second resurrection or a second rapture.

Until you see Revelations 20:5 in using first resurrection as meaning this particular resurrection will happen first before the rest of the dead are raised later on, you will always see first resurrection as meaning the actual and only resurrection, and therefore you cannot see that there is to be a pre trib rapture.

The church at Thyatira In Revelations 2nd chapter was warned to repent or be cast into the great tribulation.

The church at Philadelphia in Revelation 3rd chapter was promised that they would escape the hour of trial that shall try all upon the earth.

Every man shall be raised in his order; Christ, the firstfruits and some of those firstfruits were mentioned at the beginning of Revelations 14th chapter as being redeemed from the earth and therefore raptured and then they that are Christ's at His coming; those saints that got left behind for not running that race by faith in Jesus Christ will face the coming great tribulation.

 

[ATP]

Until you see Revelations 20:5 in using first resurrection as meaning this particular resurrection will happen first before the rest of the dead are raised later on, you will always see first resurrection as meaning the actual and only resurrection, and therefore you cannot see that there is to be a pre trib rapture.

I'm hoping to switch to pre-trib soon. I just have to get there first. I'm not there yet. I believe the first resurrection in Rev 20:5 is speaking about all dead saints from the beginning of time to when the rapture occurs. Zech 14:1 I think might occur before the 3.5 year great trib. If you go to Ez 38-39 war, the word "plunder" also comes up. Do you think they are similar prophesies. We all know that Ez 38-39 war precedes the 3.5 year great trib so...There's a lot of plundering.

The church at Thyatira In Revelations 2nd chapter was warned to repent or be cast into the great tribulation.

The church at Philadelphia in Revelation 3rd chapter was promised that they would escape the hour of trial that shall try all upon the earth.

I don't think in Rev 2:22 casting into great tribulation is the same as Matt 24:21. I believe it is speaking of personal sin and illness. It's good to note that the word "tribulation" is used two different ways, personal sickness and suffering vs God's wrath. Rev 2:22 is not the wrath in the 3.5 year great trib.

Rev 2:22 ISV Look! I am going to strike her with illness. Those who commit adultery with her will also suffer greatly, unless they repent from acting like her.

Rev 3:10 could mean rapture, OR it could mean the moving of the church to a different location in Rev 12:6 and Rev 12:14. How can we know? Unless Rev 3:10 speaks of the church saints and Rev 12:6 and Rev 12:14 speaks of the Jewish remnant saints of Israel. Two different kinds of saints.

Rev 3:10 http://www.easyenglish.info/bible-commentary/revelation-lbw.htm- "The *Lord promised to protect his *church from the time of trouble. This may mean that the *Lord will take them out of the time of trouble. Jesus may remove the *church from the earth before this time starts. But it might mean that he will protect them from damage during the time of trouble. Christ will come for his *church but we do not know when."

Rev 12:6 NIV The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Rev 12:14 NIV The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach.

 

[Axehead]

It all comes down to who is a "child of God", Is someone saved because they say so? Because they prayed a prayer and walked the aisle and got their "ticket punched" and name the name of Jesus?

Well, we have this among many other things.


2Tim_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Matt_7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke_13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Do you really want to play around with the Lord and His Word and tell Him His Spirit is not more powerful than your flesh. Do you want to play "russian roulette" with your life? Are you feeling "lucky" today in the midst of your stubbornness to depart from iniquity?

What we should be doing if we refuse to seek God for complete victory over sin or refuse to turn away from sin and just surrender to it is to examine if we really belong to Him and if His Spirit really indwells us.

We need to stop the blameshifting, and excuses and the twisting of Scripture. Otherwise it will lead to our ruin.

2Co_13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Axehead

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I'm hoping to switch to pre-trib soon. I just have to get there first. I'm not there yet. I believe the first resurrection in Rev 20:5 is speaking about all dead saints from the beginning of time to when the rapture occurs. Zech 14:1 I think might occur before the 3.5 year great trib. If you go to Ez 38-39 war, the word "plunder" also comes up. Do you think they are similar prophesies. We all know that Ez 38-39 war precedes the 3.5 year great trib so...There's a lot of plundering.

I believe the prophesies in Zechariah are pertianing towards the end of the great tribulation when Christ's return with the raptured saints; Here's why below because that will be then when Israel will realize that they had crucified their Messiah.

Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

I believe the prophesies in Ezekiel 38-39 are for when Satan will be released from the pit for a small season since Israel will be dwelling in safety during the milleniel reign of Christ.

Ezekiel 38:14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? 15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: 16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

In the eyes of the generation growing up in the milleniel reign, Jesus will be sanctified before the world's eyes that dwell safely with Him.

As for using the other versions, this is why I would prefer to rely only on the KJV because then you would get a different message and thus a deviation from the meat or actual meaning of His words.

It all comes down to who is a "child of God", Is someone saved because they say so? Because they prayed a prayer and walked the aisle and got their "ticket punched" and name the name of Jesus?

Actually, it comes down to whom among the saved believers are abiding in Him & His words in trusting Him as our Good Shepherd as His disciple in following Him for without Him, we can not follow Him.

Those left behind are His saints; even the ones that no longer believe in Him in having their faith overthrown by lies or whatever.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Any saved believer in unrepentant iniquity are denying Him by just being a worker of iniquity, and that is why He will deny them in leaving them behind from attending the Marriage Supper.

Any saved believer that has become a former believer still has Jesus abiding in Him even though they and saved believers in iniquity will be left behind for not trusting Jesus as their Good Shepherd for following Him in spirit and in truth.

Confirmation can be seen when we continue to read about how there are vessels unto dishonour that are STILL IN His House as these vessels unto dishonour are those that did not depart from iniquity by His grace & by His help to be received as that vessels unto honour in His House.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Why are these lost & unrepentant saints STILL in His House? To testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name, but as many are called, few are chosen to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb to be held in His honour of His crowning achievements in them.

 

[Born_Again]

I could never quite pin down why your posts are so confusing, then it hit me.... Your use of the English language and sentence structure throws the whole thing off. Its improper English. I'm talking about your posts, not the scripture you post. It reminds me of a movie line "People called Romani, they go the outs". There are a few run-on sentences as well. This is just an observation.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I could never quite pin down why your posts are so confusing, then it hit me.... Your use of the English language and sentence structure throws the whole thing off. Its improper English. I'm talking about your posts, not the scripture you post. It reminds me of a movie line "People called Romani, they go the outs". There are a few run-on sentences as well. This is just an observation.

It is a fault of mine, but I believe Christ Jesus can help you to figure those run on sentences out.

As for improper English...simply ask me a question to clarify.

 

[Axehead]

I believe masturbation is the work of the flesh called uncleanness as listed in the NT.

I can post alot of scripture showing this but everything settles on recognizing what uncleanness is when it has been listed inbetween fornication ( sex before marriage ) and lasciviousness ( sexual excessiveness ).

If you do not believe uncleanness is masturbation, then what is it as listed ibetween those two sexual sins?

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Wouldn't masturbation also be "lust of the flesh"? Masturbation could also be spiritual adultery, fornication, rebellion, and other things depending upon what the mind and heart are engaging in while performing the fleshly act.

Psa_81:12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels. (As opposed to walking in the Lord's counsels)

1Th_4:5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: (Concupiscence - strong sexual desire).

The key is are you growing in faith from glory to glory (overcoming), can you engage in the "lust of concupiscence" in faith and say you know God?

Is there danger in hardening your heart towards His word for you personally?

Mar_4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

Heb_3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Heb_3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Axehead

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Wouldn't masturbation also be "lust of the flesh"? Masturbation could also be spiritual adultery, fornication, rebellion, and other things depending upon what the mind and heart are engaging in while performing the fleshly act.

Yes, most definitely. The problem arises when those ensnared by this dominating sin over their lives will profess to doing it without lusting. In which case, one has to address the action of this work of the flesh as believers are called to repent from "all" uncleanness.

Ephesians 4:19Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

I would take that to mean that they do not have to have lust in their hearts any more as the body urges may dominate them. And so..

Ephesians 5:3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

It is necessary to address the act of masturbation as uncleanness to see the necessity for turning to Jesus for help in overcoming sin.

 

[Phoneman777]

Sure, I believe its a sin. Can't disagree. But to you think that someone covered by grace is going to hell if they masturbate?

I think we all agree that only those that love Jesus can be covered by His grace. Here's how people who love Jesus show it:

"If ye love Me, keep My commandments."
"For this is the love of God (Jesus), that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not grievous."
"For love is the fulfilling of the law."
"Hereby we do know that we know (love) Him if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know (love) Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him."

Those who claim to love Jesus but refuse to turn from any sin, including masturbation, prove by their actions that they do not love Jesus and are not covered by His grace. Please remember it is not pagans, but church folk to whom Jesus will say, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, ye that work lawlessness."