WHY ARE MANY OF US STILL HERE?

[ScottA]

The Ten Commandments existed before Sinai. Rachel knew not to steal, Cain knew not to kill, Joseph knew not to sleep with married girls. Stop being legalistic, for heaven's sake.
The law of sin and death aint the Ten Commandments, which Paul calls "holy, just, and good", remember? The same law can't be both that and "sin and death" unless one attempts to attain righteousness by keeping the law.
So, Christians may kill, steal, lie, etc. Got it.
And Eureka, you've discovered how it is that we may keep the commandments: by allowing Christ to come into our heart and keep them for us. Bingo. That's why John says those who refuse to keep the commandments of God are liars and bankrupt of the truth.
You antinomianists have been so seduced by Satan into believing error that you cannot discern the difference between the "reasonable service" of obedience with the "impossible service" of earning salvation by keeping the law. NO ONE CAN KEEP THE LAW UNLESS CHRIST IS IN HIM.
How is it that you deny what the Spirit has said to the churches? That we "can do ALL THINGS through Christ". Is English your first language? Do you understand what "ALL THINGS" means? It means "ALL THINGS", period. The reason why you can't stop watching pornography is not because you CAN'T, it's because you DON'T WANT TO. Christ loves you and stands ready to give you the victory - all you gotta do is just ask and He will give you the power to resist the devil...every...single...time.
I preach "grace". You preach "disgrace". You preach that Christians are "more than conquerors" while getting a Beelzebub beat down every time he comes around to dangle his temptations before their faces. Conquerors who forgot to tell the enemy they supposedly conquered, right? How utterly pathetic. The reason you Antinomianists can't get victory over sin is because you refuse to make a full surrender to Christ, that He may impart to you power to be true overcomers and conquerors. It's time that you Antinomianists stand up, wipe your sniveling little noses, and take a stand against the devil.

I was going to respond point by point, but then you became belligerent, psychologically projecting your own errors on me, while admitting what I have been saying all along while you repeatedly argued against it:

NO ONE CAN KEEP THE LAW UNLESS CHRIST IS IN HIM.

You both can't be right.

 

[bbyrd009]

I hate no human being--but I do hate the lies of the enemy of our souls. You presume much.

well I understand it does not interpret as "hate" to you ok, but that is bc you are not on the receiving end imo. Contemplate how you might feel if I suggested offhand that I am only here to help you, a poor lost Mithraist trying to get to the Elysian Fields, posing as a Christian, bc you have been deceived?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

well I understand it does not interpret as "hate" to you ok, but that is bc you are not on the receiving end imo. Contemplate how you might feel if I suggested offhand that I am only here to help you, a poor lost Mithraist trying to get to the Elysian Fields, posing as a Christian, bc you have been deceived?

LOL--"not on the receiving end"? Son, I have been insulted so many times on theology boards, I lost count a long time ago. No one forces anyone to come here to discuss anything. Those who are not prepared to clearly lay out their arguments and then defend them, should probably stay away. Emotionalism does not an argument make. How I "feel" about a poster--whether I like him/her--is irrelevant. I might like a poster and think that he/she might be a swell person to have over for coffee, but, if their notions are half-baked, lacking in sound judgment or even worse, majorly misinformed, I'm still going to reject their arguments. We don't get to vote on Truth--it is either supported by the evidence or it is not. The Christian faith has a huge amount of evidence supporting it, for those who choose to acquaint themselves with it. The fact is that the world is already suffering under "strong delusion" and is hostile to the claims of Christ--don't you be one of them, okay?

 

[bbyrd009]

LOL--"not on the receiving end"? Son, I have been insulted so many times on theology boards, I lost count a long time ago. No one forces anyone to come here to discuss anything. Those who are not prepared to clearly lay out their arguments and then defend them, should probably stay away. Emotionalism does not an argument make. How I "feel" about a poster--whether I like him/her--is irrelevant. I might like a poster and think that he/she might be a swell person to have over for coffee, but, if their notions are half-baked, lacking in sound judgment or even worse, majorly misinformed, I'm still going to reject their arguments. We don't get to vote on Truth--it is either supported by the evidence or it is not. The Christian faith has a huge amount of evidence supporting it, for those who choose to acquaint themselves with it. The fact is that the world is already suffering under "strong delusion" and is hostile to the claims of Christ--don't you be one of them, okay?

hmm. You are of course lost as two boys kissing, and currently don't recognize the many Bible vv that might lead you to salvation, there is only One Immortal, No one has ever gone up to heaven, No Son of Man may die for another's sins, You and your sons will be here with me, etc, on and on, but I don't hate you at all, and hope you come to change your mind LC.


feelin' the love yet?
now just so you know I don't believe the top part up there ok, but that is what say a Muslim can only hear when they read you saying that they are condemned already, or however you put it

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

hmm. You are of course lost as two boys kissing, and currently don't recognize the many Bible vv that might lead you to salvation, there is only One Immortal, No one has ever gone up to heaven, No Son of Man may die for another's sins, You and your sons will be here with me, etc, on and on, but I don't hate you at all, and hope you come to change your mind LC.


feelin' the love yet?
now just so you know I don't believe the top part up there ok, but that is what say a Muslim can only hear when they read you saying that they are condemned already, or however you put it

I appreciate your sensitivity to Muslims and others who are not yet in the Body of Christ. Perhaps the Lord is calling you to a ministry to them.

I agree that it is important to soften our approach toward unbelievers without compromising the truth. (I wish that some hereabouts would do the same with each other). Paul had a different way to speak to the Mars Hill Greek philosophers than the way he spoke to those in the Church. BTW, it is not how I put it, it is how the Gospel of John puts it. There is no doubt that the gospel will offend those who are "already condemned". It should be remembered that ALL are condemned before they come to Christ (including you and me--"such were some of you") .

 

[bbyrd009]

I appreciate your sensitivity to Muslims and others who are not yet in the Body of Christ.

I tell you that many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abe, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom

Perhaps the Lord is calling you to a ministry to them.

yet here I am, talking to you

 

[bbyrd009]

I agree that it is important to soften our approach toward unbelievers without compromising the truth. (I wish that some hereabouts would do the same with each other). Paul had a different way to speak to the Mars Hill Greek philosophers than the way he spoke to those in the Church. BTW, it is not how I put it, it is how the Gospel of John puts it. There is no doubt that the gospel will offend those who are "already condemned". It should be remembered that ALL are condemned before they come to Christ (including you and me--"such were some of you") .

wadr I do not claim to have found or come to Christ
best of luck in your approach with "unbelievers" though

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

wadr I do not claim to have found or come to Christ
best of luck in your approach with "unbelievers" though

I do most of my work within the Church--I do not have the gift of evangelism. bbyrd: "I do not claim to have found or come to Christ." Why not?

 

[bbyrd009]

I do most of my work within the Church--I do not have the gift of evangelism. bbyrd: "I do not claim to have found or come to Christ." Why not?

bc then I would be testifying of myself?

"within the Church" referring to where, if I may ask

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

bc then I would be testifying of myself?

You would NOT be testifying of yourself--you would be testifying of Christ and His grace and mercy on you.

"within the Church" referring to where, if I may ask

Are you referring to a specific church or type of church? Or are you referring to geography?

 

[bbyrd009]

You would NOT be testifying of yourself--you would be testifying of Christ and His grace and mercy on you.

so you say, yes

Are you referring to a specific church or type of church? Or are you referring to geography?

I was hoping to better understand your definition of "Church" there

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

so you say, yes
I was hoping to better understand your definition of "Church" there

"Church" when it is capitalized, typically means the collection of ALL true believers--the Bride of Christ--those washed in the Blood of the Lamb. What I meant when I said that I do most of my work within the Church--I counsel other believers in what the Bible does and does not teach. While I am "prepared to give a reason for the hope that I have" to unbelievers, my Lord Jesus has directed me to work with believers. Not tied to any particular church or denomination. I have attended Baptist churches, a Charismatic church, and a Pentecostal church most recently--they were all very Bible-centered--but not legalistic. I joke that I am a "Bapticostal Christian"--but mostly, I just say that I am a Christian, if anyone asks.

 

[Phoneman777]

I was going to respond point by point, but then you became belligerent, psychologically projecting your own errors on me, while admitting what I have been saying all along while you repeatedly argued against it:

You both can't be right.

Humans can't obey the Ten Commandments? Really?

• Does Satan put a gun to our heads and force us to break them?
• Does Satan somehow barricade our God-provided "way of escape" out of temptation?

See, true Christians are courageous enough to admit that all sin is a choice, and if we love Jesus, we'll ask Him to help us choose to take the path out of temptation, because "greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world".

Antinomianists are pathetic cowards who know the above is true, but because their lives are not in harmony with that truth, they seek to excuse their choice to crucify and shame my Jesus afresh with such asininity as "nobody can keep the law". You're right, no unconverted, unsurrendered Antinomianist will ever be able to.

 

[Phoneman777]

I see it this way, that the Commandments are under Grace as in regards to a Christian so we are not under the Law, like the Jews were, so all the Law is under Christ Jesus as it's his Grace that one truly abides in.
The OT Law has been completely changed under Grace, we are not Socialist types who are a Letter of the Law type of moronic little twerp.
It's like this with the OT Law, oh you disobeyed the law ? so here you go you will be dealt with as such, with no regard.
It's like this with the NT Law, oh you disobeyed the law we see ? ok now what is the best way to deal with that problem, so you can grow into a worthy man and bear fruit within the community and all.

The Letter of the Law only convicts, but the Law under Grace bears fruit because of Grace and them two Laws that Jesus gave trump all Laws totally in every way, and it was all finished off in fact because there is noting more to add to it, it's done, it's the finished work as to Jesus Christ Lord of Lords King of Kings for ever end of story.

The letter of the law and the spirit of the law only seem to be at odds in Scripture because a crucial element is often overlooked: our motivation. Those motivated not by love for God and man will seek God's acceptance by fulfilling the letter, but Jesus came to show us that His acceptance of us has nothing to do with our obedience, but His own grace. Christian Origination.

However, Christian Obligation - that which we're required of God after we've been saved - is obedience not only to the letter, but also the spirit: not only are we still expected to refrain from adultery, but our love for God compels us to not even look in lust. If we're keeping the spirit of the law, we'll by default be keeping the letter. If we strive to keep the letter only, we attempt the impossible, for "the carnal mind is enmity with God; it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Phoneman777]

Actually, this verse should read, "the wages of sin is the second death." When we speak of the consequences of sin it is always that the person will be judged unrighteous at the time of the Judgement and they will then be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death.

Any other understanding is false.

I heard a preacher say one time we're either born twice and die once or we're born once and die twice.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I heard a preacher say one time we're either born twice and die once or we're born once and die twice.

Mankind was afflicted with physical death because of sin as well. The Hebrew actually reads, "Dying, you will die." Adam and Eve began to die ever-so-slightly, the moment they sinned.

 

[farouk]

"Church" when it is capitalized, typically means the collection of ALL true believers--the Bride of Christ--those washed in the Blood of the Lamb. What I meant when I said that I do most of my work within the Church--I counsel other believers in what the Bible does and does not teach. While I am "prepared to give a reason for the hope that I have" to unbelievers, my Lord Jesus has directed me to work with believers. Not tied to any particular church or denomination. I have attended Baptist churches, a Charismatic church, and a Pentecostal church most recently--they were all very Bible-centered--but not legalistic. I joke that I am a "Bapticostal Christian"--but mostly, I just say that I am a Christian, if anyone asks.

One's natural affinity is with fellow believers, right? Acts 2.41-42

 

[Phoneman777]

Mankind was afflicted with physical death because of sin as well. The Hebrew actually reads, "Dying, you will die." Adam and Eve began to die ever-so-slightly, the moment they sinned.

Death by 1,000 cuts seems to be the Christian's lot in this life.

 

[farouk]

Mankind was afflicted with physical death because of sin as well. The Hebrew actually reads, "Dying, you will die." Adam and Eve began to die ever-so-slightly, the moment they sinned.

Hebrews 2.15: "...deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage" is an interesting insight here.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Death by 1,000 cuts seems to be the Christian's lot in this life.

Yes, and the older you get, the more you long for that new body we have been promised.