Why Christians Call Mary the Mother of God.

[Moonwood]

Nowhere in Scripture is Mary called 'the mother of God'

The absence of the exact phrase "Mother of God" in Scripture does not refute the doctrine. The terms "Trinity" and "Incarnation" are not found verbatim in Scripture either, yet they describe biblical truths.

Elizabeth was the first person in Scripture to call Mary "the mother of my Lord" (Luke 1:43). Since Jesus is God the Word made flesh (John 1:1, 14), the title "Mother of God" is simply the theological conclusion drawn from what Scripture teaches.

More importantly, my argument was based on four biblical premises:

1. The Word is God.
2. The Word became flesh.
3. Mary conceived and gave birth to Jesus.
4. Jesus is God the Word made flesh.

Which of these premises do you reject?

Because if all four are true, then Mary is the mother of the Person Who is God incarnate. Saying "Mother of God" does not mean Mary is the origin of God's divinity, only that the child She conceived and bore is God the Word incarnate.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Juvenile deflection!
Does doing or not doing those thing have anything to do with a conversation about spiritual things?

Okay –

People have different prayer postures.
Som bow their heads.
Some fold their hands.
Some sit in silence.
Some pray audibly.

Which one of these is WRONG – and which is CORRECT?
The Bible doesn’t explicitly instruct us that we must do ANY of these things.

YOUR belief that we must ONLY do what is instructed in Scripture.
I still contend that this is nonsense . . .

I’m sure you Have prayed TO people, dead and alive.

I absolutely have – and so have YOU.

YOUR problem is that you refuse to accept the FULL definition of the word, "Pray" . . .
I can teach you things to make you smarter - but I can't MAKE you smart . . .

Other than little babies – I don’t know a SINGLE person who have never prayed to another fellow human being.

 

[David in NJ]

The absence of the exact phrase "Mother of God" in Scripture does not refute the doctrine. The terms "Trinity" and "Incarnation" are not found verbatim in Scripture either, yet they describe biblical truths.

Elizabeth was the first person in Scripture to call Mary "the mother of my Lord" (Luke 1:43). Since Jesus is God the Word made flesh (John 1:1, 14), the title "Mother of God" is simply the theological conclusion drawn from what Scripture teaches.

More importantly, my argument was based on four biblical premises:

1. The Word is God.
2. The Word became flesh.
3. Mary conceived and gave birth to Jesus.
4. Jesus is God the Word made flesh.

Which of these premises do you reject?

Because if all four are true, then Mary is the mother of the Person Who is God incarnate. Saying "Mother of God" does not mean Mary is the origin of God's divinity, only that the child She conceived and bore is God the Word incarnate.

#1 - The Trinity is Declared in Genesis, beginning in chapter 1

#2 - It is sin to add to God's words what He never said = Proverbs 30:5-6

#3 - It is sin to declare that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus

#4 - God never had a mother! A body was prepared in the womb of Mary for the WORD to enter into = Gospel & Hebrews

#5 - Worship of Mary, including praying to her is from the deception of idolatry and is faithlessness in the LORD Jesus Christ.

 

[Moonwood]

#1 - The Trinity is Declared in Genesis, beginning in chapter 1

#2 - It is sin to add to God's words what He never said = Proverbs 30:5-6

#3 - It is sin to declare that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus

#4 - God never had a mother! A body was prepared in the womb of Mary for the WORD to enter into = Gospel & Hebrews

#5 - Worship of Mary, including praying to her is from the deception of idolatry and is faithlessness in the LORD Jesus Christ.

Several of those points are assertions, but they do not address the argument I made.

1. Regarding the Trinity:
I agree that the doctrine of the Trinity is taught in Scripture. My point was that the word "Trinity" itself does not appear in the Bible. Likewise, the phrase "Mother of God" need not appear verbatim for the doctrine to be true if it follows necessarily from biblical teaching.

2. Regarding Proverbs 30:5-6:
Calling Mary the Mother of God is not adding words to Scripture any more than calling God "Trinity" is adding words to Scripture. It is a theological term used to summarize what Scripture teaches about Jesus' identity. The question is whether the concept is biblical.

3. Mary's perpetual virginity:
That is a separate discussion. Even if someone rejects perpetual virginity, it would not affect the question of whether Mary is the mother of Jesus, who is God the Word incarnate.

4. "God never had a mother":
Christians agree that God, in His divine nature, has no mother. The title "Mother of God" does not mean Mary is the origin of God's divinity or existed before God. It means that the Person she conceived and gave birth to is God the Son incarnate. Mothers give birth to persons, not natures. Mary gave birth to the Person Jesus Christ, and that Person is God the Word made flesh (John 1:1, 14).
In fact, Elizabeth said to Mary, "Why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43). Elizabeth was the first person in Scripture to acknowledge Mary as "the mother of my Lord."

5. Worshiping Mary:
I never argued for worshiping Mary. Whether one should pray to Mary is a separate issue. The question under discussion is simply whether calling Mary the Mother of God is true.

So I'll return to the original question:
Do you deny that the Word is God (John 1:1), that the Word became flesh (John 1:14), that Mary gave birth to Jesus, or that Jesus is God the Word incarnate?

Because if all of those are true, then Mary is the mother of the Person who is God incarnate. That is exactly what Christians mean by "Mother of God." It says something about who Jesus is, not about Mary being the source of God's existence.

 

[Taken]

Maybe it’s just that most Catholics are just SMARTER than you and are able to discern between using an image to remind them of God

Catholics are Smart Because they Require A man made IMAGE to REMIND them of the INVISIBLE God…
Do man-made hearing Aids Also Help Catholics Hear His Voice ?

I suggest you don’t go to Washington DC where CONTLESS monuments are venerated.

LOL. I Have seen numerous Monuments in DC crafted in the Likeness of men, I never met, But yet had a signifiant role in Americas Establishment… Never bowed down to them or witnessed anyone bowing down to them.

Funny – MY Bible tells us that NOBODY in Heaven in the eternal presence of Almighty God is “dead” . .

No-BODY in Heaven?
Correct..
Dead Body’s of Humans Do NOT go TO Heaven…
Dead Body’s of Humans Return TO Dust of the Earth!

…we are ALL commanded to be INTERCESSORS for each other (James 5:16).

James 5:
16] Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Is … confessing a Fault… You Trespass against another, or They Against You…
Own IT!

Pray FOR each other…NOT “TO” each other!

Rev. 5:8 shows the Elders in heaven bringing our prayers before God .
Rev. 8:3-4 speaks of the Angels in heaven doing the SAME thing.

Elders, IN Heaven, are Saved Souls, Quickened Spirits…
Angels IN Heaven Are holy spirits…
Obviously “THEY” have assigned TASKS to perform For God…
Why think it Noble to pretend it your business to interrupt their Service to God?

And 2 Cor 11: 14-15 says NOTHING about ONLY praying to God in Jesus' name . . .

So?
Jesus taught…
John 14:14… the significance of Praying to God IN JESUS NAME.

Jesus taught…
To Remember Him… when you Eat and Drink.

Nada Scriptures to…
Pray TO Saints departed souls or angel spirits.

Nada Scripture to erect statues to Remember God, Jesus, Dead body’s, departed souls, spirits… To bow down to them!

Doing so, Making twisted Excuses… doesn’t make you smart or wise.

 

[Dryhn]

Several of those points are assertions, but they do not address the argument I made.

1. Regarding the Trinity:
I agree that the doctrine of the Trinity is taught in Scripture. My point was that the word "Trinity" itself does not appear in the Bible. Likewise, the phrase "Mother of God" need not appear verbatim for the doctrine to be true if it follows necessarily from biblical teaching.

2. Regarding Proverbs 30:5-6:
Calling Mary the Mother of God is not adding words to Scripture any more than calling God "Trinity" is adding words to Scripture. It is a theological term used to summarize what Scripture teaches about Jesus' identity. The question is whether the concept is biblical.

3. Mary's perpetual virginity:
That is a separate discussion. Even if someone rejects perpetual virginity, it would not affect the question of whether Mary is the mother of Jesus, who is God the Word incarnate.

4. "God never had a mother":
Christians agree that God, in His divine nature, has no mother. The title "Mother of God" does not mean Mary is the origin of God's divinity or existed before God. It means that the Person she conceived and gave birth to is God the Son incarnate. Mothers give birth to persons, not natures. Mary gave birth to the Person Jesus Christ, and that Person is God the Word made flesh (John 1:1, 14).
In fact, Elizabeth said to Mary, "Why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43). Elizabeth was the first person in Scripture to acknowledge Mary as "the mother of my Lord."

5. Worshiping Mary:
I never argued for worshiping Mary. Whether one should pray to Mary is a separate issue. The question under discussion is simply whether calling Mary the Mother of God is true.

So I'll return to the original question:
Do you deny that the Word is God (John 1:1), that the Word became flesh (John 1:14), that Mary gave birth to Jesus, or that Jesus is God the Word incarnate?

Because if all of those are true, then Mary is the mother of the Person who is God incarnate. That is exactly what Christians mean by "Mother of God." It

Catholics are Smart Because they Require A man made IMAGE to REMIND them of the INVISIBLE God…
Do man-made hearing Aids Also Help Catholics Hear His Voice ?


LOL. I Have seen numerous Monuments in DC crafted in the Likeness of men, I never met, But yet had a signifiant role in Americas Establishment… Never bowed down to them or witnessed anyone bowing down to them.

No-BODY in Heaven?
Correct..
Dead Body’s of Humans Do NOT go TO Heaven…
Dead Body’s of Humans Return TO Dust of the Earth!

James 5:
16] Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Is … confessing a Fault… You Trespass against another, or They Against You…
Own IT!

Pray FOR each other…NOT “TO” each other!

Elders, IN Heaven, are Saved Souls, Quickened Spirits…
Angels IN Heaven Are holy spirits…
Obviously “THEY” have assigned TASKS to perform For God…
Why think it Noble to pretend it your business to interrupt their Service to God?

So?
Jesus taught…
John 14:14… the significance of Praying to God IN JESUS NAME.

Jesus taught…
To Remember Him… when you Eat and Drink.

Nada Scriptures to…
Pray TO Saints departed souls or angel spirits.

Nada Scripture to erect statues to Remember God, Jesus, Dead body’s, departed souls, spirits… To bow down to them!

Doing so, Making twisted Excuses… doesn’t make you smart or wise.

Good stuff Taken

 

[Taken]

Okay –

People have different prayer postures.
Som bow their heads.
Some fold their hands.
Some sit in silence.
Some pray audibly.

Which one of these is WRONG – and which is CORRECT?[/B]

“HOW” is less signifiant THAN “TO” Whom.

The Bible doesn’t explicitly instruct us that we must do ANY of these things.

So? It’s your list.

YOUR belief that we must ONLY do what is instructed in Scripture.
I still contend that this is nonsense . . .[/I][/B]

So? I never made that claim… human men have FREEWILL . They Can or Not DO what is pleasing to God…
And suffer or enjoy the consequences.
Nothing new.

I absolutely have –

and so have YOU.

Gaslighter… I know it is difficult for you to refrain from speaking FOR others… Try harder, to not speak FOR me.

YOUR problem is that you refuse to accept the FULL definition of the word, "Pray" . . .
I can teach you things to make you smarter - but I can't MAKE you smart .

You tooting your horn is but a show of your own narcissism…
Prayer is a Communication Method God Established For men to to speak TO God…

You want to use that method to speak TO dead people, statues, living people…
You have FREEWILL to do so.

. .

Other than little babies – I don’t know a SINGLE person who have never prayed to another fellow human being.

So? I suspect you were taught from a young age to PRAY “TO” the dead and living.

I elect to Pray only “TO” the Lord God Almighty.
And pray “FOR” others.
FREEWILL!

 

[beechan]

“HOW” is less signifiant THAN “TO” Whom.

In Catholic theology, prayer simply means to petition or ask. When Catholics ask Mary or the saints to pray, it is no different than asking a fellow Christian on earth to pray for you, except Mary is more alive in Christ than anyone, standing right in His heavenly presence.

When a Catholic says the Hail Mary, the core of it is literally petitioning her: "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners..." She is never the destination of the prayer; she is a partner in prayer, interceding with us to the one true God, the Father. If asking a righteous believer in heaven to pray for you is wrong, then asking your pastor or a friend to pray for you on earth is wrong too.

revisit #229

 

[beechan]

Prayer is a Communication Method God Established For men to to speak TO God…

Wrong.

If you look at the actual historical and linguistic definition of the word pray, it simply means to ask, beseech, or entreat, whether speaking to God or petitioning a fellow human being.

In modern daily conversation, you won't hear people walking around saying 'I pray you, sir' that specific phrasing is strictly archaic and belongs to Early Modern English (think Shakespearean or King James era). "I pray you, sir, tell me which way the carriage went." (Meaning: "Please, sir, tell me...")

 

[beechan]

You want to use that method to speak TO dead people,

So? I suspect you were taught from a young age to PRAY “TO” the dead and living.

If you see those saints are all DEAD, then you were actually challenging the most basic doctrine of Christianity: the eternal life!

 

[beechan]

#3 - It is sin to declare that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus

Here you said: #318

David in NJ said:
Nowhere in Scripture is Mary called 'the mother of God'

so I borrow your own words, nowhere in Scripture you find 'is sin to declare that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus.'

 

[David in NJ]

Here you said: #318


so I borrow your own words, nowhere in Scripture you find 'is sin to declare that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus.'

Good Morning in Jesus Christ the LORD

Sure it is = God said so

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Let's trust God together by believing His words Today

 

[BreadOfLife]

Catholics are Smart Because they Require A man made IMAGE to REMIND them of the INVISIBLE God…
Do man-made hearing Aids Also Help Catholics Hear His Voice ?

Who said anything about “Requiring” a reminder? Reminders are helpful – not required . . .

God understands – better than YOU – that a tangible people find tangible means helpful? Otherwise, there wouldn’t have been a need for Him to come down in human flesh.
Get it?

Also - what are those giant crosses on Protestant churches for?
What are those golden crosses hanging around Protestant necks for?
What are those little Fish symbols with "IXOYE" in the center I see in Protestant circles?

ALL humans us symbolism and imagery – so check your sanctimonious attitude at the door . . .

LOL. I Have seen numerous Monuments in DC crafted in the Likeness of men, I never met, But yet had a signifiant role in Americas Establishment… Never bowed down to them or witnessed anyone bowing down to them.

Doesn’t matter.

YOU used the full text of the Commandment to vilify the creation of graven images because you don’t understand CONTEXT . . .

No-BODY in Heaven?
Correct..
Dead Body’s of Humans Do NOT go TO Heaven…
Dead Body’s of Humans Return TO Dust of the Earth!

You’re dodging the point again to cover your ignorant statement that those in Heaven are ”Dead” – when the Bible says differently.

EPIC fail . . .

James 5:
16] Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Is … confessing a Fault… You Trespass against another, or They Against You…
Own IT!
Pray FOR each other…NOT “TO” each other!

And if YOU say that you’re never asked anyone to pray for you or someone else or asked someone for a favor or requested anything like food at a restaurant – then YOU are a LIAR.. . .

Given your track record on this forum – that doesn’t surprise me a BIT . . .

Elders, IN Heaven, are Saved Souls, Quickened Spirits…
Angels IN Heaven Are holy spirits…
Obviously “THEY” have assigned TASKS to perform For God…
Why think it Noble to pretend it your business to interrupt their Service to God?

Nice try – but the Elders in Heaven AREN’T Angels – and yet THEY intercede for us as well.
They are created human beings who once dwelled on earth . . .

So?
Jesus taught…
John 14:14… the significance of Praying to God IN JESUS NAME.

Jesus taught…
To Remember Him… when you Eat and Drink.

YUP – which is exactly what Catholics do.

ALL of our prayers – even those to saints in Heaven and on earth – are made in and through our Lord Jesus Christ . . .

Nada Scriptures to…
Pray TO Saints departed souls or angel spirits.

WRONG, as I’ve AMPLY illustrated (James 5:16, Rev. 5:8, Rev. 8:3-4)

Nada Scripture to erect statues to Remember God, Jesus, Dead body’s, departed souls, spirits… To bow down to them!

Umm, - what was the Ark??

What were the 2 Golden Cherubim placed on top of it (Exodus 25:18–22)?
WHY did people prostrate themselves in front of them (Josh. 7:6, 1 Samuel 5:3-4)?
What were the giant cherubim that festooned the Temple of Solomon (1 Kings 6:23-28)?
They were all SYMBOLS and IMAGES.

God was PLEASED by these images (2 Chron. 7:7).
What He DIDN’T do was condemn them - like YOU do . . .