Why Christians Disagree

[Jane_Doe22]

This is untrue. The Catholic Church in the Council of Trent and Vatican II deny salvation by grace alone and requires works. Seventh day Adventists require works as well if you look at how they define faith. These people call themselves Christians.

@Vince , you didn't answer my question:
are you willing/wanting to do a detailed study here to actually understand past surface straw man arguments?

 

[Willie T]

Not my point of the story. The child in the story cannot understand the letter the others have because he is not spiritual enough to discern it, right? At least this is what I was told about ten minutes ago with supporting scripture. How is a non believer who cannot read and understand the bible because they are not spiritually discerning know what it means then if Christians who are spiritual readers don't know?

He starts the same way you and I did to master the English language. He leaves the The Great
Books (The Classics) sitting on the shelf until he has taken the time to at least learn the alphabet.

 

[Vince]

Because people aren't clones.
Do you know another group that agrees on every detail? I don't.

My point is that if salvation is the difference between living and dying eternally, how do non believers know how to be saved?

If I had information that would save my child from eternal destruction I would let them know myself if I was a descent person. The god you describe won't do that. He just sits and watches people think they are saved when they are not and does nothing to change that.

 

[Willie T]

Off to the gym... Later.

 

[Taken]

How can one person believe in the rapture and another not? Isn't the bible clear enough on the topic.

The Bible is a book of Knowledge, not a book of Understanding.

An atheist can read and read and read the Scriptural Knowledge and never Understand what it means.

A believer can read and read and read the Scriptural Knowledge and never Understand what it means.

A believer who has become Converted (ie received the Gifts from God to be Baptized in the Spirit of God)....has whole different OPTION "gifted" (by God) to such person.

And that is asking God Himself, what HE means.
(The Person asking, is just like any person asks for anything)
(The answer from God, comes to the person spiritually).

Many, who are Converted, do not take advantage of their OPTION, and continue to lean on OTHER people's thoughts and opinions, just as people who are not Converted, lean on OTHER people's thoughts and opinions.

Many Christians, are believers, but not Converted.
Many Christians, believe, just as Athiests, both believing...this --->.hey If a person is going to Church, all is good and salvation is secured.

Not so. People are not saved by going to a Church.

Going to a Church is simply one method of
Hearing about God. Early tradition, when few could read, and copies of texts were not widely available.
(And funny today. Many can read. Many Bibles available. Many can afford to buy a Bible. Many own a Bible. Relatively, many do not open the Bible and actually READ it.)
Many are still content to go to Church, sit and have another decide what they want to tell the them.

People become saved by first establishing a relationship with the Lord, and then receiving His blessing and gifts for having established the relationship.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Vince]

He starts the same way you and I did to master the English language. He leaves the The Great
Books (The Classics) sitting on the shelf until he has taken the time to at least learn the alphabet.

Ok, then why would I put in the letter that path A is safe and Path B is safe and Path A is death and Path B is death. Then he talks to others that have read the letter and they disagree. This is what your god has done with the bible if he exists. Or is it more likely that humans wrote the books and that is why they do not agree.

 

[Taken]

Lets say you had a child that was walking alone in the woods and came to a fork in the road and one way meant assured destruction (child eating monkeys or something) and the other meant safety. Lets say you knew which road was safe, which way was destruction and you could communicate that to the child, would you? Or would you do like god and tell hundreds of people through a letter that was unclear and had them tell the child which way to go. So the child has free will to decide which way to go and has to make this decision based on conflicting information from people that claim to know.

Be back in awhile. My dog needs some attention.

 

[Vince]

@Vince , you didn't answer my question:
are you willing/wanting to do a detailed study here to actually understand past surface straw man arguments?

The reason I left my faith is because of study. My final two years I studied a lot to understand the bible, god salvation. Many atheists came to a position of non belief because they performed an in-depth and long study of the bible. If you can give sufficient evidence for a belief in god go ahead.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The reason I left my faith is because of study. My final two years I studied a lot to understand the bible, god salvation. Many atheists came to a position of non belief because they performed an in-depth and long study of the bible. If you can give sufficient evidence for a belief in god go ahead.

You come on here complaining about not getting answers while you admit you're not willing to do any studying.
Dude, that's your problem. Not mine, not God's, "Christians", or anyone else's.

 

[Nancy]

Wouldn't so much say, an apology, but more like the understanding was amiss.

The Lord does want us to have His knowledge and His Understanding of His knowledge, according to Him.

On most "debates" about the Rapture, I do not typically see the Basics put forth by who who disagrees...
Like, what the Rapture means...and discussion thereof.
Like, what is the Purpose....ie the Why...and discussion thereof.

It just sort of jumps into yes there is, no there isn't....which results in zip.

God Bless,
Taken

I do hear you Taken...I used to do nothing BUT talk about the rapture in my early days but then, I found out there was pre, mid, post and even those who think it has already happened (I do not believe that) If anything at all I find the Mid trib more likely. I think one of the things in the Bible is in Matthew 24:29-30 that kind of solidified the timing for me. I will certainly apologize if I'm wrong ♥

 

[Episkopos]

This is nonsense. You say the evidence is overwhelming but then you don't give any evidence. This is the kind of answer I get a lot from Christians. These are not real answers but attempts at answering so you don't have to get specific about it. At least this is how it seems to me.

How do you even know what nonsense is? What is the chemical formulation in your brain that makes something nonsense? Who and what are you...a rock? an accident of nature? What can you possibly know?

 

[Episkopos]

I am new here. Hope to stay a while.

My question to Christians is why do Christians disagree on so much? I hear Christians say all the time that god speaks to them. If this is true, why would he not say the same thing to each person and clear up the differences in biblical interpretation? It even goes to the core of the gospel, how people are saved.

A lot of times a Christian will only understand a limited amount and even get things wrong based on scale. For instance there are those who believe in creeds....which has nothing whatsoever to do with faith. A creed is to faith as trainspotting is to transportation. Now this will come as news or even a shock to some believers. But this is a question of maturity.

 

[Vince]

You come on here complaining about not getting answers while you admit you're not willing to do any studying.
Dude, that's your problem. Not mine, not God's, "Christians", or anyone else's.

I just said I studied for 18 years. I also said if you had sufficient evidence that god exists then post it.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I just said I studied for 18 years. I also said if you had sufficient evidence that god exists then post it.

I refuse.
The only stupid questions in life are the one's a person asks when they aren't really interested in the answers, such as you are here.

 

[Episkopos]

In the end no apologetic towards faith in or love of God will suffice as a determining factor to kindle a faith or love in another person. We believe and love because we were first loved by Him.

 

[Vince]

How do you even know what nonsense is? What is the chemical formulation in your brain that makes something nonsense? Who and what are you...a rock? an accident of nature? What can you possibly know?

This is a good question. We can start with Solipsism. The idea that we can only know that our own minds exist. The mind in a jar idea. I cannot know for sure that there are other minds, neither can you. I could just be making everything up. There has not been a solution to this problem. So at this point you and I have to make a decision. I have made a decision to believe there are other minds and that I am interacting with real people, reality is as it seems. That seems to me to be the best answer.

Of course our minds are made of matter and chemicals. Take away the brain and the mind no longer exists. No mind has ever existed without a brain. My mind can learn and describe nature around me. Other minds have come up with ways to efficiently gain and interpret data through science so we can know things with as much certainty as we can. We cannot know 100% that gravity will always act as we have described it our equations, but we do have a high confidence level that it will based on past experience. This is how we gain knowledge, we also gain knowledge through experience. I would not know what love feels like if I did not love another.

You have a problem because you claim to have knowledge you have insufficient evidence for. I don't. I want to believe things are true because there are sufficient reasons to do so. Believing a god exists does not meet that criteria in my opinion.

 

[Vince]

I refuse.
The only stupid questions in life are the one's a person asks when they aren't really interested in the answers, such as you are here.

Ok

 

[Vince]

In the end no apologetic towards faith in or love of God will suffice as a determining factor to kindle a faith or love in another person. We believe and love because we were first loved by Him.

Then god must not love me because I don't believe he exists.

 

[Nancy]

Hello there my new friend

Atheist, Agnostic, unbeliever, or whatever....none of them can run far enough to out run God's love.
But, as this thread is about disagreements....not many of my "christian" friends here will agree with me... But @Nancy and @aspen and maybe @bbyrd009

Most others believe in the hellfire stuff... but that's not the God I find in The Book. He started all this back in Eden...not to lose 95% of mankind...but to Win.

I'm never quite sure which part of the love of God that my friends here don't like!!

Bless you....Helen

It is hard, to begin with even, to understand the length, width, and height of His great love. I believe it of course because of how He has rewarded my faith and trust in Him. And, how perfectly and precisely He times His answer to prayer! I am shocked every time then I'm like "why am I so shocked? This is how He ALWAYS works"
The fire and brimstone preachers are simply trying to scare people into their "buildings"...like @Episkopos said, to get your money. That is so wrong on so many levels. Besides the obvious one of getting your money, it will lead people to believe in works as a way to salvation...HA! Jesus is the ONLY way. As far as Hell, Sheol Tartarus, Hades..."hell" was created for Satan and the third of the angels that fell with him. Those who will "perish", to me simply means to be destroyed and become nothing. JMHO ♥
If I'm wrong, I guess I will find out, huh? But, knowing God as I do now, I cannot add the horrible characteristic of "monster" to our GOOD God.

 

[FatalMoves]

Come on, you are smarter than that, You and I both know that tired old claim of the Bible being contradictory has been debunked decades ago.

You only speak to yourself here.