Why Christians Disagree

[FatalMoves]

Fundamentally, all Christians believe salvation comes through our belief in Christ (John 3:16). We all believe he died for our transgression, rose from the dead, and is coming back in judgement. So there's no disagreement on the basics, but just some different interpretations of the more minor stuff. Its up to each individual to study, learn, and grow in the faith. No ones understanding is perfect, but as long as you accept the teachings and example of Christ, we are promised eternal life.

Can you count on that promise? Christian's don't know what heaven is even like.

 

[Helen]

I have a nasty flu, but I'll say something. From a biblical point of view there is cause to believe in eternal hell fire.

 

[Soverign Grace]

I am new here. Hope to stay a while.

My question to Christians is why do Christians disagree on so much? I hear Christians say all the time that god speaks to them. If this is true, why would he not say the same thing to each person and clear up the differences in biblical interpretation? It even goes to the core of the gospel, how people are saved.

I've seen this a lot too. I think that Christians all interpret the bible the way they read it. Scripture says that the things of the Spirit are spiritually discerned so it's unusual to see so many interpretations. A Christian said to me a long time ago: "Christians like to cut other Christians up." I've found her words to be true.

That's a good question!

And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14The natural man does notaccept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 1 Cor. 2:14

 

[Taken]

I am new here. Hope to stay a while.

My question to Christians is why do Christians disagree on so much?

Same reason any two people or groups disagree.

It hinges on two things:
Knowledge (according to whom)
and
Understanding of the Knowledge (according to whom)

Not everyone has Learned TO Learn in the same fashion/way..

I hear Christians say all the time that god speaks to them.

I have never had a person directly say that to me. And never heard Gods audible voice.
So have no clue what that would mean, but would ask any person, if such a thing was said to me.

If this is true,

Can say, don't have a clue what they mean.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Many Christians disagree on how we are saved. Some say we are saved by the sacrifice of Jesus, some say we are saved by works, some say God saves all, some say god picks who is saved, some say you choose to be saved etc. etc.

The issue of salvation should be clear and if it is not then why won't God clear it up?

It is clear, according to (Gods WORD).

Why worry about what "some say"?
Read what the Lord says in Scripture.

Christians cannot decide how to be saved how would I know how to be saved?

You, are not the same as EVERY other person.
Every person IN Scripture is NOT the SAME as you.

All of Scripture is True.
All of Scripture has an APPLICABILITY to every person.
You know who you are, Read the Scriptures.
If the Scripture APPLIES to you, Then you can discover what things DO or DO not APPLY to you. (According to God)...
Instead of "according to what umpteen things other people say".

The Bible teaches free will

Correct. Again "applicability".
Read a Scripture, more than a single passage, but rather like a chapter, to see the context of the situation.
They are examples.
Hey this guy did this, eh, I do the same kinds of things....See what the consequence (outcome) was for the man in the example.
Are you content with the consequence?
If so, continue doing the same.
If not, then don't do the same.
You have the free will to decide.
And if YOU find yourself to weak to change that desire / behavior... that is where the Lord has Offered, His Power to help you change, to having a different desire / behavior...
"IF" you really want it...
And
"IF" you are willing to BELIEVE and TRUST in the Lord.
(Another Free WILL choice of yours).
It is not complicated.

and predestination so I cannot even go to the bible to get a straight answer.

Predestination is not a complicated understanding.

God knows ALL things. You do not.
In short God already knows, what and when you will Freely choose. You do not.

You can freely change your MIND, moment to moment, day to day, year to year.
Point blank...your MIND is naturally Against God.
Your MIND operates naturally and logically.
If something you hear "makes sense logically", you will naturally believe it. If you hear something that does not "make sense", you will logically, reject it as being True.
If what you rejected can be "proven" to you, your MIND, will then "logically", change, and accept what you had rejected.

^ That is the dilemma of a disbeliever IN thee Lord God.
^ That is the bottom line search of a disbeliever IN Lord God.

That is why you are on a Christianforum.
Hey, it does not make Logical sense to you, so go have a Christian who believes, Logically prove to you, thee Lord God exists,

Aint' going to happen.
Just like it ain't going to happen, If I understand, "something" and you want me to help you understand it, when you don't even know the basics "about" the "something"...
And the dilemma is "mindboggling", because I can not "physically" SHOW you, sketch for you, or describe the physical aspects of the "something".

So how is it "my fault" that I am not saved?

Because, it is "your" free will to choose, or not.

Learn ABOUT God. Who He is, what is His desire, and why.

And then Decide, IF you "want" what He offers, or not.

IF, you want what God offers, there IS a way to Read Scripture, to learn how to be given what He offers.

If, you DO NOT, want what God offers, there IS also a way to Read Scripture, to ensure you will not be given what He offers.

Or you can DO nothing, and then say, why is it "my fault".

You have freewill. No one will force you to read, hear, learn, trust, believe, not believe...
Not God, not me, not anyone.

Thus, no one is at "fault" for what you do or do not do, but you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Shouldn't non believers at least be told a coherent message on the main points of Christianity?

The layout of the Bible is complicated.
...meaning;
The Bible does not read like a novel, with a handful of characters.

It has applicability to every single person ever naturally born or will be naturally born.
...and what applies to the era and knowledge revealed DOES NOT, apply the same to every person ever naturally born.
...thus how an individual becomes saved, applies to the extent of the knowledge that was given them during their era and life time.

The beginning of mankind, had men for centuries, with little knowledge, and little history from which to draw examples.

That concept continues thousands of years later, every time a new babe is naturally born.
They learn bit by bit, try things, that might work or fail.

It is a matter of learning, and experiencing, and as time passes, history passes, and individuals have examples from history, of others failures, to decide if they want to repeat an others failures or use an others example of success.

^ That works in everyday life, in this world, for work, cooking, driving, repairing things, etc.
^ It also works in spiritual life.

An individual can criticize an others failures, from historical things in everyday life, AND historical things in behaviors regarding religious beliefs and actions.

Anyone can find the Right and Wrong in what was an ERROR....after the Fact...

Taking advantage of History to Not repeat errors, that had a dastardly outcome, is key.
And common sense.

One thing that IS constant, is the Lord God.
Who He is, what He desires and WHY.

What is also constant, is mankinds Natural instinct. Keep his life at all costs, greed, stinginess, power, authority, fame, riches, comfort, control....

When a majority want ^ that, and the majority are trying to achieve ^ that, then who exactly are they going to control, take from?

Just saying, naturally born people, have natural instincts....
Spiritually born people, have adopted a whole different paradigm.

There is no billieted point list in Scripture.
Scripture covers a multitude of exampled behaviors and exampled results.

Everyone is an individual. And every individual has to freely decide and choose where they want to fit in, according to what applies to them.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

There are also a great deal of biblical topics that Christian's disagree on. I'll pick one.

The rapture

Is there a rapture or not?

I can say, I believe in the Rapture.
I know why, and have said so.

Others can say they do not believe in the Rapture.
Haven't heard them say what they think it means, or why they do not believe it.

Taken

 

[Taken]

BTW my friend, why would I and who would I apologize to if there is a PTR? Is it a sin to believe mid or post? And, I would gladly say "you were right and I was wrong" were there to be a whisking away.
I don't see this as a central doctrine/belief. ♥

Wouldn't so much say, an apology, but more like the understanding was amiss.

The Lord does want us to have His knowledge and His Understanding of His knowledge, according to Him.

On most "debates" about the Rapture, I do not typically see the Basics put forth by who who disagrees...
Like, what the Rapture means...and discussion thereof.
Like, what is the Purpose....ie the Why...and discussion thereof.

It just sort of jumps into yes there is, no there isn't....which results in zip.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Waiting on him]

Wouldn't so much say, an apology, but more like the understanding was amiss.

The Lord does want us to have His knowledge and His Understanding of His knowledge, according to Him.

On most "debates" about the Rapture, I do not typically see the Basics put forth by who who disagrees...
Like, what the Rapture means...and discussion thereof.
Like, what is the Purpose....ie the Why...and discussion thereof.

It just sort of jumps into yes there is, no there isn't....which results in zip.

God Bless,
Taken

There is definitely an event that takes place, where the believer in Christ receives a Glorified body, rather dead or alive. As to the where when and how I have no idea. But in speculation the where is where God decides the when is when God decides and how is is beyond mans comprehension.

 

[FatalMoves]

I can say, I believe in the Rapture.
I know why, and have said so.

Others can say they do not believe in the Rapture.
Haven't heard them say what they think it means, or why they do not believe it.

Taken

How can one person believe in the rapture and another not? Isn't the bible clear enough on the topic.

 

[Waiting on him]

How can one person believe in the rapture and another not? Isn't the bible clear enough on the topic.

Every Christian believes at some point they will receive a glorified body. As I said the where when and how are what is argued unfortunately.

 

[101G]

yes but by then most will be burning in hell. Too late.

Oh so you believe in a burning Hell? ....

but with God, it's NEVER TOO LATE. Isaiah 5:26 "And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly:
Isaiah 5:27 "None shall be weary nor stumble among them; none shall slumber nor sleep; neither shall the girdle of their loins be loosed, nor the latchet of their shoes be broken".

WHY IS THIS?

John 6:39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day".

PICJAG

 

[Episkopos]

I have a nasty flu, but I'll say something. From a biblical point of view there is cause to believe in eternal hell fire.

There is cause to believe any number of things....from a human standpoint. But God is only perceived in the whole counsel of the bible brought together.

The fires are eternal.....but the torment is not (for people). This is called "the second death." We are to fear God who can destroy both body and soul (life) in fire.

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. He beckons us to come to Him. This does not mean that people will appreciate that and turn to the living God. We will all be judged for what we have done with what we have been given. We reap what we sow.

The problem is with the religion of they that justify themselves as saved....and consign all others to the fires of hell.

Only God is qualified to judge.

 

[brakelite]

As a corporate body, perhaps not. But personally, there would surely be numerous opinions , innumerable number of opinions, as to the type of god you reject. Mostly I suspect based on the sometimes warped divergence of opinion within Christianity itself as to what God is like. And like you, I also reject some of those views, as is evidenced by the many times I have disagreed with others here on this forum which divergence of opinion sparked your original question.
The point I am making is this. How can atheism possibly come to any agreement on who God is, what He is like, etc when those who profess to know Him, can't agree? Your challenge to the church is therefore fully justified, however, there is a truth to be known and the promise of scripture is that you can find it if you search deeply enough and earnestly enough, and you are willing to forsake the junk in favour of what light you receive. I think therefore the short answer to your question, why so much disagreement with Christianity as to some even basic doctrines, is that far too many are unwilling to give up the junk. So if they retain the junk, God offers no further light, and they remain in darkness.

We are called to "come out of Babylon". But just as the Israelites exited Egypt, it took them centuries to get Egypt out of them. We claim we have nothing to do with Babylon, yet are totally confused (the meaning of Babylon) over the simplest of doctrines. Babbling over issues that with just the minimum of faith, and belief in the real character of the God we profess to know and love, would be resolved instantly. Like the eternal torment issue. And the rapture issue. And the victory over sin issue. And the law issue. All are related to our concepts and our mindset regarding God's character.

 

[Episkopos]

Tormented in presence of Messengers and the Lamb

That is the only passage that suggests that people can survive hell fire...but these are actual worshipers of the devil. All other passages show that people die.

 

[FatalMoves]

That is the only passage that suggests that people can survive hell fire...but these are actual worshipers of the devil. All other passages show that people die.

Right.

 

[Windmillcharge]

How about repentance? Is this required? Some say yes, some say no. ScottA says he has direct knowledge of God, is he saved because he no longer has faith but direct knowledge?

Jesus was speaking to Jews. They knew that in order to seek attonement for sin there had to be repentance and a sacrifical offering, so it would be understood that repentance was also there.

 

[FatalMoves]

Jesus was speaking to Jews. They knew that in order to seek attonement for sin there had to be repentance and a sacrifical offering, so it would be understood that repentance was also there.

Yep I know. It's the sheep herders that destroyed the planet.

 

[Vince]

God is merciful....eternal torture is a myth....an old stratagem to get people in the pews.

God is love.

That is what you say. Other Christians say different. It seems that Christians cannot even agree on what god is like.

 

[Episkopos]

That is what you say. Other Christians say different. It seems that Christians cannot even agree on what god is like.

Anybody can say they are anything. If a person picks up a violin and makes terrible noises with it....will you give up on music?