Why did God want Adam to remain blind?

[ChristisGod]

Do small children who have just been born need a Savior?

Scripture say ALL are under sin no exceptions. So everyone born needs a Savior.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Do small children who have just been born need a Savior?

our granddaughter is three, or will be in October. I don’t know where she gets it or why she spontaneously says it for no reason, ‘Here I am.’ Sounds crazy but every time she does it, I’m reminded of Him. Isaiah 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

 

[bbyrd009]

Do small children who have just been born need a Savior?

Become like a little child would pretty much declare "no" i think?

 

[Giuliano]

Become like a little child would pretty much declare "no" i think?

I don't know if the Gospel of Thomas should be in our Bibles, but it has an interesting passage about becoming like a little child.

Gospel of Thomas Saying 37 - GospelThomas.com

His disciples said, "When will you be shown forth to us and when shall we behold you?" Jesus said, "When you strip naked without being ashamed, and take your garments and put them under your feet like little children and tread upon them, then [you] will see the child of the living. And you will not be afraid."

Perhaps when we attain that state of innocence is when God will provide us clothes the way He provides for the lilies. My guess is it's how Adam and Eve were supposed to be clothed to begin with.

Luke 12:27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

 

[bbyrd009]

Scripture say ALL are under sin no exceptions. So everyone born needs a Savior.

well, literal little children do grow up, all of them, so prolly yes in a sense
but also no i guess

 

[MattMooradian]

I believe its inclusion was integral to God's relationship with Adam and Eve, and by implication with His Creation. Good and evil were of course known to God but since He had previously declared all aspects of His Creation as good this was the only experience He desired for all things to have. Satan of course had other plans. From the beginning of Creation Satan's evil desires meant God was confronted with opposition, and meant His Creation was exposed to the possibility of experiencing the conflict that opposition to Him always brings.

This seems to imply that Satan was a necessary part of God's creation. That evil is necessary for us to understand what is good?

 

[MattMooradian]

We have the phrase "ignorance is bliss" and it was bliss for Adam and Eve before they gained knowledge of good and evil.

So, Adam and Eve were ignorant, like my dog that is ignorant of its being naked? Or, like a young child is ignorant that nakedness is problematic?

 

[MattMooradian]

Genesis 2:15 "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."
here are two words to keep in mind when acquiring knowledge, "Dress" and "Keep" as stated in the scriptures here.
DRESS: H5647 עָבַד `abad (aw-ɓad') v.
1. to work (in any sense).
2. (by implication) to serve, till.
3. (causatively) to enslave, etc.
[a primitive root]
KJV: X be, keep in bondage, be bondmen, bond-service, compel, do, dress, ear, execute, + husbandman, keep, labour(-ing man, bring to pass, (cause to, make to) serve(-ing, self), (be, become) servant(-s), do (use) service, till(-er), transgress (from margin), (set a) work, be wrought, worshipper.

This does not sound like God's rest. It sounds like slavery. My idea of Heaven and God's rest is that we will be supplied with everything, no more tilling the ground.

WHAT I AM SAYING ABOUT NONE MANUAL LABOR

Please clarify: "none manual labor"? Your comment is interesting, but I lost you with this phrase.

 

[101G]

This does not sound like God's rest. It sounds like slavery. My idea of Heaven and God's rest is that we will be supplied with everything, no more tilling the ground.


Please clarify: "none manual labor"? Your comment is interesting, but I lost you with this phrase.

first thanks for the reply, second you must not have read my post completely, for I said,

and the work here is not nessary manual Labor.

and to be clear, "spiritual". the mind

PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

So, Adam and Eve should not have eaten from the Tree. Then, would we all be walking around naked and blissful, like my dog?

(smile), NOT, blissful, but neither "shameful", just like your dog.

PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Giuliano]

1 Timothy 2:13-14 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

What is ‘deceived’ ?

She believed something that wasn't true. She and Adam were to play separate roles. While it is true, she was to play the "lower" role, it was not true this meant she was inferior. On the contrary, those who willing play the lower role find themselves exalted.

Most men and women today are a mixture of masculine and feminine. Adam and Eve started off quite different. She was loving but he had the intellect. Thus she needed to stay under his protective wing to accomplish her task -- she could do something he could not, but she needed to be connected with him. Note that Eve was told to cleave to Adam -- no need, she already loved him. If he cleaved to her, she would automatically cleaved to him. He was supposed to learn how to love from her and she was supposed to learn how to think from him.

You can see how clouded her mind was when she got it wrong saying God had told them not to touch the forbidden fruit. The serpent came along and made her feel inferior because she didn't know everything. It is harder to tempt men thus even today. It is still easier to make women feel inferior in order to manipulate them. A little bit of flattery often works.

It would have been impossible, the Jews say, for the serpent to have deceived Adam the way he deceived Eve; and we see his motive for eating was not the same as hers.

I don't know if I would have put it the way Paul did in 1 Timothy. Genesis does not use the word "sin" or "transgression." Paul seems to have been writing with an end in mind, so he assembled a line of thought to make his final point. He was discussing the role of women in the church when he made that comment. Elsewhere when he wants to make a different point, he points at Adam as the culprit.

1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Christianity overall remains still baffled about the role of women. It remains in many ways a patriarchal system which somehow supposes women are inferior to men. It is not so. Women have the gift to bring life into the world. That is clear at first glance; but it is also true that women can ask for what seems impossible to men and get it. Men can be too "rational" at times and think some things are too hard for God. So we read:

Hebrews 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

Why women? Yet so far as I know, there is only case in the Bible where a man asks for someone to be resurrected and his request was granted. A woman wants it and asks for it, then a man of God does it for her. That's not patriarchal, it's a man showing love for a woman, granting them what they desire even it does seem impossible.

 

[Stumpmaster]

This seems to imply that Satan was a necessary part of God's creation. That evil is necessary for us to understand what is good?

No. I have refuted that at length over the years, and any inference that evil exists and is at any time an option, should stem from God's own declaration in Genesis that His Creation was Good. The Goodness of God is why the TOTKOGAE was in the G of E and its fruit forbidden...to show that God's purpose in Creation and His relationship with those He gave life to was for Good.

Of course God's Eternal Foreknowledge means He always knows the outcomes of things, whether an obedient response to His Will or an opposed reaction to it. He didn't deliberately create Lucifer to rebel against Him and become His Adversary Satan, He created him perfect, but the inevitability of willful opposition to God by His own creation is offset by His provision of the remedy to it.

 

[Stumpmaster]

So, Adam and Eve were ignorant, like my dog that is ignorant of its being naked? Or, like a young child is ignorant that nakedness is problematic?

Yes. Innocent children have no reason to feel ashamed of being naked. It is because innocence becomes tainted by the fallen world and the forces at work in it that covering has become advisable.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So, Adam and Eve should not have eaten from the Tree. Then, would we all be walking around naked and blissful, like my dog?

I think we would be wearing clothes. You seem to forget that Adam was the one maintaining the garden of Eden in which he lived and could carry on an intelligent conversation with the The True God. Also it was Adam who gave the names of the animals. The names given doubtless were descriptive. This is suggested by some of the Hebrew names for animals. The point is that Adam was imaginative and intelligent not ignorant.

 

[Giuliano]

Some people who attend nudist camps do so without shame. Does that mean they are spiritually more advanced than the rest of us? Many Christians would believe that attending a nudist camp is sinful. Are they wrong?

It may depend on how each individual looks at it. I know some clothes are designed to trigger unclean thoughts. People may have clothes on, but their clothes are inviting others to imagine what they look like naked.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Adam was so blind before he ate the fruit that he did not even know he was naked. Only when he ate from the fruit, he got knowledge. It is not bad to get wisdom, for God himself said: "Adam became like one of us", Adam became like God by getting knowledge, so what is so bad about that?
Why didn't God want Adam to understand and know things?
What is also very interesting is that the word wisdom in Hebrew is formed from a word that means "to recognize bad and good", so what Adam got when he ate the fruit was wisdom.
What was the fruit? Was it really a fruit? Was there really a tree, was there really a serpent, or is all this symbolic?

Knowledge for Adam and Eve meant that they knew they had sinned against God. This knowledge would rule their lives, because they must make decisions to live for God or not. The pull of sin is very strong and not only for Adam and Eve, but for all their children.

What was the fruit? Sex out of wedlock and even worse it was sex with the devil! Eve told God that she was seduced by the serpent and scripture says that Cain was the product of the seduction.
The knowledge of the above was not to be hidden, but when children were being taught in Sunday school it was just sin of disobedience.

1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
I ask you not to be like the Pharisees who could not understand what Jesus was saying. Then Jesus went on!
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Knowledge for Adam and Eve meant that they knew they had sinned against God. This knowledge would rule their lives, because they must make decisions to live for God or not. The pull of sin is very strong and not only for Adam and Eve, but for all their children.

What was the fruit? Sex out of wedlock and even worse it was sex with the devil! Eve told God that she was seduced by the serpent and scripture says that Cain was the product of the seduction.
The knowledge of the above was not to be hidden, but when children were being taught in Sunday school it was just sin of disobedience.

1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
I ask you not to be like the Pharisees who could not understand what Jesus was saying. Then Jesus went on!
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

You say that the fruit was sex with the devil. So, you’re saying that Eve had sex with the devil and then gave some to her husband with her?? I don’t think so.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

You say that the fruit was sex with the devil. So, you’re saying that Eve had sex with the devil and then gave some to her husband with her?? I don’t think so.

I don't say so, God's word says so.
Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

 

[Giuliano]

I don't say so, God's word says so.
Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

I have trouble seeing that says explicitly that Eve conceived Cain by coupling with the serpent. I can see how it could easily be inferred; but then I have problems with Genesis which says Adam was Cain's father and has Eve saying Cain was a gift from God.

Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Do we have the devil as our father because he had sex with our mother or with an ancestor? Or does he become our father when we fail to behave like a child of God? Going back to Genesis again, we see God telling Cain not that he had a sinful nature already but rather than sin was at the door.
Sin was like a tiger ready to pounce on him. Either Cain mastered the sinful urge on the outside or that sinful urge would master him. God warned him when he got angry . . . without a good cause. The anger itself was not a sin; but it posed a danger to Cain -- the words of Jesus come to mind about being angry but not sinning.

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

I believe Cain became a son of the serpent when he allowed himself to sin. Just like his parents, he drew a curse down on himself. The sinful urge entered him when he chose to act on it. It was similar to how Even and Adam "ate" the fruit.

11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

Cain's offering had not been acceptable. We could say that was evil, but it could have been repaired since God told him it could be. Instead of repairing it however, Cain continued to be angry without cause and gave into a murderous rage. He became something like a beast rather than a being in the image and likeness of God.

When God judges us, it won't be about who our ancestors were. It will be about what we did ourselves. Having righteous parents can't save us and having sinful parents won't condemn us. We will be judged by our own words and deeds. God made an effort to help Cain. He made an effort to help us all -- so we will be without excuse. If we have the devil as our father, it is because we chose it so.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Adam was so blind before he ate the fruit that he did not even know he was naked. Only when he ate from the fruit, he got knowledge. It is not bad to get wisdom, for God himself said: "Adam became like one of us", Adam became like God by getting knowledge, so what is so bad about that?
Why didn't God want Adam to understand and know things?
What is also very interesting is that the word wisdom in Hebrew is formed from a word that means "to recognize bad and good", so what Adam got when he ate the fruit was wisdom.
What was the fruit? Was it really a fruit? Was there really a tree, was there really a serpent, or is all this symbolic?

Name of the tree: the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
Adam and Eve's interpretation of the name: a fruit, when eaten, will bring great knowledge and wisdom.
Actual interpretation of the name: a fruit, when eaten, will prove whether you are good or you are evil.

God set up a test in the garden, not so that he might know what Adam would do, but in order that Adam might know what Adam would do. The forbidden tree stands as a looming question, "are you good or are you evil?" Is Adam the kind of person who will always trust God and believe his word; or is Adam the kind of person who will weigh his own values against God's values and chose his own?

When Adam ate from the tree, the question was answered. His choice indicates that Adam is the kind of person who decides for himself what is good and what is evil.

Was it a tree? Yes. In fact, I doubt that the tree itself was different in any respect except for God's proscription. Eve saw that the tree was good for food. How did she know unless she had eaten from another tree just like it? It's like looking at an apple tree standing in an orchard of apple trees. She was understandably curious as to why this particular tree was forbidden since it looks just like another tree from which she is allowed to eat.

Satan tells Eve that on the day she eats from the tree, she will be like God knowing good and evil. This is a very subtle lie. In fact, she already knew good from evil when Adam told her not to eat from the tree. She understood the concept of "ought and ought not" because God had endowed her with a moral center.

In fact, the tree was put in the garden to provide her a moral center. The tree was put in the garden so that when evil was found in her, she might seek God for a solution. Essentially, the tree stood as a looming question, are you good or will we find evil inside you? By eating from the tree, she had her answer.