ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Scripture say ALL are under sin no exceptions. So everyone born needs a Savior.Do small children who have just been born need a Savior?
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Scripture say ALL are under sin no exceptions. So everyone born needs a Savior.Do small children who have just been born need a Savior?
Do small children who have just been born need a Savior?
Become like a little child would pretty much declare "no" i think?Do small children who have just been born need a Savior?
I don't know if the Gospel of Thomas should be in our Bibles, but it has an interesting passage about becoming like a little child.Become like a little child would pretty much declare "no" i think?
well, literal little children do grow up, all of them, so prolly yes in a senseScripture say ALL are under sin no exceptions. So everyone born needs a Savior.
I believe its inclusion was integral to God's relationship with Adam and Eve, and by implication with His Creation. Good and evil were of course known to God but since He had previously declared all aspects of His Creation as good this was the only experience He desired for all things to have. Satan of course had other plans. From the beginning of Creation Satan's evil desires meant God was confronted with opposition, and meant His Creation was exposed to the possibility of experiencing the conflict that opposition to Him always brings.
We have the phrase "ignorance is bliss" and it was bliss for Adam and Eve before they gained knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:15 "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."
here are two words to keep in mind when acquiring knowledge, "Dress" and "Keep" as stated in the scriptures here.
DRESS: H5647 עָבַד `abad (aw-ɓad') v.
1. to work (in any sense).
2. (by implication) to serve, till.
3. (causatively) to enslave, etc.
[a primitive root]
KJV: X be, keep in bondage, be bondmen, bond-service, compel, do, dress, ear, execute, + husbandman, keep, labour(-ing man, bring to pass, (cause to, make to) serve(-ing, self), (be, become) servant(-s), do (use) service, till(-er), transgress (from margin), (set a) work, be wrought, worshipper.
WHAT I AM SAYING ABOUT NONE MANUAL LABOR
first thanks for the reply, second you must not have read my post completely, for I said,This does not sound like God's rest. It sounds like slavery. My idea of Heaven and God's rest is that we will be supplied with everything, no more tilling the ground.
Please clarify: "none manual labor"? Your comment is interesting, but I lost you with this phrase.
and to be clear, "spiritual". the mindand the work here is not nessary manual Labor.
(smile), NOT, blissful, but neither "shameful", just like your dog.So, Adam and Eve should not have eaten from the Tree. Then, would we all be walking around naked and blissful, like my dog?
She believed something that wasn't true. She and Adam were to play separate roles. While it is true, she was to play the "lower" role, it was not true this meant she was inferior. On the contrary, those who willing play the lower role find themselves exalted.1 Timothy 2:13-14 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
What is ‘deceived’ ?
No. I have refuted that at length over the years, and any inference that evil exists and is at any time an option, should stem from God's own declaration in Genesis that His Creation was Good. The Goodness of God is why the TOTKOGAE was in the G of E and its fruit forbidden...to show that God's purpose in Creation and His relationship with those He gave life to was for Good.This seems to imply that Satan was a necessary part of God's creation. That evil is necessary for us to understand what is good?
Yes. Innocent children have no reason to feel ashamed of being naked. It is because innocence becomes tainted by the fallen world and the forces at work in it that covering has become advisable.So, Adam and Eve were ignorant, like my dog that is ignorant of its being naked? Or, like a young child is ignorant that nakedness is problematic?
So, Adam and Eve should not have eaten from the Tree. Then, would we all be walking around naked and blissful, like my dog?
It may depend on how each individual looks at it. I know some clothes are designed to trigger unclean thoughts. People may have clothes on, but their clothes are inviting others to imagine what they look like naked.Some people who attend nudist camps do so without shame. Does that mean they are spiritually more advanced than the rest of us? Many Christians would believe that attending a nudist camp is sinful. Are they wrong?
Adam was so blind before he ate the fruit that he did not even know he was naked. Only when he ate from the fruit, he got knowledge. It is not bad to get wisdom, for God himself said: "Adam became like one of us", Adam became like God by getting knowledge, so what is so bad about that?
Why didn't God want Adam to understand and know things?
What is also very interesting is that the word wisdom in Hebrew is formed from a word that means "to recognize bad and good", so what Adam got when he ate the fruit was wisdom.
What was the fruit? Was it really a fruit? Was there really a tree, was there really a serpent, or is all this symbolic?
You say that the fruit was sex with the devil. So, you’re saying that Eve had sex with the devil and then gave some to her husband with her?? I don’t think so.Knowledge for Adam and Eve meant that they knew they had sinned against God. This knowledge would rule their lives, because they must make decisions to live for God or not. The pull of sin is very strong and not only for Adam and Eve, but for all their children.
What was the fruit? Sex out of wedlock and even worse it was sex with the devil! Eve told God that she was seduced by the serpent and scripture says that Cain was the product of the seduction.
The knowledge of the above was not to be hidden, but when children were being taught in Sunday school it was just sin of disobedience.
1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
I ask you not to be like the Pharisees who could not understand what Jesus was saying. Then Jesus went on!
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
I don't say so, God's word says so.You say that the fruit was sex with the devil. So, you’re saying that Eve had sex with the devil and then gave some to her husband with her?? I don’t think so.
I have trouble seeing that says explicitly that Eve conceived Cain by coupling with the serpent. I can see how it could easily be inferred; but then I have problems with Genesis which says Adam was Cain's father and has Eve saying Cain was a gift from God.I don't say so, God's word says so.
Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Adam was so blind before he ate the fruit that he did not even know he was naked. Only when he ate from the fruit, he got knowledge. It is not bad to get wisdom, for God himself said: "Adam became like one of us", Adam became like God by getting knowledge, so what is so bad about that?
Why didn't God want Adam to understand and know things?
What is also very interesting is that the word wisdom in Hebrew is formed from a word that means "to recognize bad and good", so what Adam got when he ate the fruit was wisdom.
What was the fruit? Was it really a fruit? Was there really a tree, was there really a serpent, or is all this symbolic?