Why did God...

[quietthinker]

No, its your typical avoidance, which I have seen time and time again. You are shown truth and it falls through your fingers. Go back and see your reply. You make an accusation that the prophet Isaiah (and God Himself) are in error then proceed to say "only God knows His Sovereignty", like Doh, the question is whether you do? Go figure, you hurl stones at the text then proceed to state the obvious. Sad part is you are blind to it.

The thing is, truth is truth. It is independent of what you or I think it is.....so ultimately we are both left with this saying, 'work out your own salvation with fear and trembling'........and I guess the one who is in the 'tough spot' will be revealed in the fulness of time.

 

[face2face]

@quietthinker

How does God form (Bara) the darkness?

 

[face2face]

The thing is, truth is truth. It is independent of what you or I think it is.....so ultimately we are both left with this saying, 'work out your own salvation with fear and trembling'........and I guess the one who is in the 'tough spot' will be revealed in the fulness of time.

True enough. I've highlighted areas for concern with your approach to the Word and how you wrest it often. All one can do is place the warnings at your feet and let you work it out

 

[quietthinker]

True enough. I've highlighted areas for concern with you approach to the Word and how you wrest it often. All one can do is place the warnings at your feet and let you work it out

Your assumption in the above statement is that it is I who need to work it out, the implication being that you do not need to because you have worked it out. Hmmmm, sounds like the high horse of arrogance to me

The objective fact is we both need to work out our own salvation.....and in my view, those who are so sure the other is in error and they themselves are untouched by error, have placed themselves in an extremely difficult position.

 

[face2face]

Your assumption in the above statement is that it is I who need to work it out, the implication being that you do not need to because you have worked it out. Hmmmm, sounds like the high horse of arrogance to me

No, we are speaking about themes and lessons which have been shown to you but in your ignorance you deny. Go back and reread the posts...happy for you to address them with integrity.

The objective fact is we both need to work out our own salvation.....

True, I've not denied this truth...we all need to work out our salvation with trembling and fear. However, you need to not take my word for these truths, you need to confirm these matters for yourself...if they are not revealed to you, seek it prayerfully and I know God is willing to impart His Wisdom.

and in my view, those who are so sure the other is in error and they themselves are untouched by error, have placed themselves in an extremely difficult situation.

I've change many of my beliefs over the years through laboring in His Word. I set before you the Word Bara and how God forms the darkness throughout all generations. Maybe its for you to find the "how" and "why" He does these things. Leave fallen angel theology behind as this will frustrate your path to truth. Seek to know Him Who is Sovereign.

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

No, we are speaking about themes and lessons which have been shown to you but in your ignorance you deny. Go back and reread the posts...happy for you to address them with integrity.

I could justifiably make the same charge!

I've change many of my beliefs over the years through laboring in His Word. I set before you the Word Bara and how God forms the darkness throughout all generations. Maybe its for you to find the "how" and "why" He does these things. Leave fallen angel theology behind as this will frustrate your path to truth. Seek to know Him Who is Sovereign.

The message you are sending is; I am qualified because of my time and efforts to tell you what defines right and wrong.

I would say you are blinded by arrogance.....even in areas you are oblivious to.

 

[face2face]

I could justifiably make the same charge!

No because you are yet to speak to the text - you have only provided opinions.

The message you are sending is; I am qualified because of my time and efforts to tell you what defines right and wrong.

Again you miss the point. I've shown you how God directs both light and darkness from Acts 8&9 . Isaiah 44&45. Not once have you allow that Word to speak to you.

I would say you are blinded by arrogance.....even in areas you are oblivious to.

Don't allow yourself to be corned like this...many doors provide a way of escape.

What does the word Bara mean in the context of Isaiah 45:7?
How did God direct the affairs of Cyrus & Paul?
How does God's determinate council work in the affairs of men?
Can God use the evil intents of men by shaping those things for His Purpose? If yes, how so? If no, why not?

If you limit God's Sovereignty, which it appears you do...on what basis do you do so? Show text...give an explanation to your belief.

Leave it with you.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@quietthinker

This saying is truth:

"This is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds
were evil" (Jn. 3:19).

No supernatural agent of evil here...only the evil which comes from our defiled nature. All enemies of God's Truth react in this way.

Paul did!

How did God work with this evil in Paul's heart? What was God's intervention? What was God's Determinate council in relation to Paul's life? Did God know of him before he was born? Did God know how he would use his evil intent to benefit His Light?

If you say no, how so?

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus couldn’t possibly have had a sin nature, he had to be without blemish, to be able to take our sins onto himself, ...he was Born Of God’s seed...In Gal.3:16Paul tells us that there is only ONE seed of Abraham, and this seed is Christ. In Christ all the nations are blessed, and He came to take upon Himself the curse of the law and deliver us from the curse (Gal. 3:13-14)..[5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin....we are Born Of The Spirit....there is NO sin in the Holy Spirit.

Adam and Eve went against the “ Spirit “ Of God, they sinned, therefore their spirit could not be in fellowship with God because there is NO sin in God.....His Spirit is Pure.

You can’t have fellowship with God if you have a sin nature.

You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Therefore we inherited the spiritual sin of Adam and Eve, that why Jesus had to die and be resurrected, there is no other way back to God, without Jesus giving up His Spirit, we could never be reconciled back to God, we need to be Born Of The Spirit, our spirit needs to be Born Again in order that we can communicate with God.

We are all spiritually dead, that is until we become Born Of God, by His will.

It’s our spirit that is in fellowship with God via His Spirit once we become Born Again...” Spirit gives birth to spirit “.

 

[face2face]

Jesus couldn’t possibly have had a sin nature, he had to be without blemish, to be able to take our sins onto himself, ..

Its a hard truth to swallow - possibly one of the hardest given the long developed heresy which Christianity has become well known for.

Not only did he have sin nature, he was held by its condemnation which is the whole point of him being in every respect like us!

Romans 6:9 is one of many verses which teaches you Christ had your nature, no different!

"We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him"

Do you understand how Jesus was condemned to die and was under death dominion?

If you don't you're not alone!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Adam and Eve went against the “ Spirit “ Of God, they sinned, therefore their spirit could not be in fellowship with God because there is NO sin in God.....His Spirit is Pure.

You can’t have fellowship with God if you have a sin nature.

You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Therefore we inherited the spiritual sin of Adam and Eve, that why Jesus had to die and be resurrected, there is no other way back to God, without Jesus giving up His Spirit, we could never be reconciled back to God, we need to be Born Of The Spirit, our spirit needs to be Born Again in order that we can communicate with God.

We are all spiritually dead, that is until we become Born Of God, by His will.

It’s our spirit that is in fellowship with God via His Spirit once we become Born Again...” Spirit gives birth to spirit “.

You have a lot of guff going on there Rita...I suggest Plato has had his way with you!

 

[Ritajanice]

Do you understand how Jesus was condemned to die and was under death dominion?

Did you actually read my post?

I already stated why Jesus had to die?

A discussion on a forum is a two way exchange, not a one sided push of another’s belief.

Your opinion and belief are no more valid than mine or anyone else’s, vice versa.

 

[Ritajanice]

You have a lot of guff going on there Rita...I suggest Plato has had his way with you!

Then please explain yourself?...thank you.

In other words question me on my guff as you put it?

“ Communicate” what my guff is?

There is no communication with me in your post above, just personal remarks.
..antagonistic post.

 

[face2face]

Did you actually read my post?

I already stated why Jesus had to die?

A discussion on a forum is a two way exchange, not a one sided push of another’s belief.

Your opinion and belief are no more valid than mine or anyone else’s, vice versa.

Jesus had to die because he inherited mortal nature, hence why he is called the "Son of Man" who became the "Son of God" by obedience.

Hence...the "Son of Man" must be lifted up and that flesh nature crucified!

Hence, the only way the condemnation could be removed was through an obedient sacrifice.

Do me a favour...take me to verses/passages which the Apostle Paul uses of show Christ's nature...do that and we can talk.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Adam and Eve went against the “ Spirit “ Of God, they sinned, therefore their spirit could not be in fellowship with God because there is NO sin in God.....His Spirit is Pure.

Your starting position is all wrong.

In the original context of Gen 2:7 one thing is clear—Adam receives the “breath” of God. Genesis 2:7a says, “Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life [וַיִּפַּח בְּאַפָּיו נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים/καὶ ἐνεφύσησεν εἰς τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ πνοὴν ζωῆς].”

The phrase “breath of life” (נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים/πνοή ζωῆς) simply refers to God’s impartation of life to Adam’s body and nothing eternal or immortal is inferred!

A living breathing creature no different to the animal kingdom.

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus had to die because he inherited mortal nature, hence why he is called the "Son of Man" who became the "Son of God" by obedience.

Thank you for opinion.

Here is mine...Jesus had to die so that our spirit can be reunited back to God, we receive the Spirit of Christ when we are Born Of The Spirit...that is our only way back to God.

Hence...the "Son of Man" must be lifted up and that flesh nature crucified!

It’s our flesh nature that is crucified when we become Born Again.

Jesus never had a flesh nature, he was the Son Of God.

Hence, the only way the condemnation could be removed was through an obedient sacrifice.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ?

Do me a favour...take me verses which the Apostle Paul uses of Christ nature...do that and we can talk.

F2F

Sorry, this is not a one way discussion board, to discuss what only you want to discuss.thank you.

 

[Ritajanice]

Your starting position is all wrong.

In your opinion, no more valid or invalid than my opinion

In the original context of Gen 2:7 one thing is clear—Adam receives the “breath” of God. Genesis 2:7a says, “Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life [וַיִּפַּח בְּאַפָּיו נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים/καὶ ἐνεφύσησεν εἰς τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ πνοὴν ζωῆς].”

The phrase “breath of life” (נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים/πνοή ζωῆς) simply refers to God’s impartation of life to Adam’s body and nothing eternal or immortal is inferred!

The breath from God is “ Spiritual Life”...that is what Adam received when he breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

All was perfect and they had great fellowship with the Father.

A living breathing creature no different to the animal kingdom.

F2F

A Living Spiritual breathing person are Born Again....they have life in their spirit, because God breathed/ Spoke / testifies that to our spirit that we are His children.

 

[face2face]

Thank you for opinion.

Here is mine...Jesus had to die so that our spirit can be reunited back to God, we receive the Spirit of Christ when we are Born Of The Spirit...that is our only way back to God.

If you mean you last breath leaves and goes upward then yes, agree. Nothing more than a last puff of wind!

It’s our flesh nature that is crucified when we become Born Again.

In mind we become born again - let this mind be in you, which was in Christ Jesus....Set you minds on things above and so on and so on!

Jesus never had a flesh nature, he was the Son Of God.

Second time I've requested this....take me to Pauls teachings on the nature of Christ - failure to do so removes all credibility

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ?

Why?
Where was it removed?
Read Romans 8:1-3 and answer the question.

Sorry, this is not a one way discussion board, to discuss what only you want to discuss.thank you.

Just correcting a false understanding of Christ.

F2F

 

[face2face]

In your opinion, no more valid or invalid than my opinion

The breath from God is “ Spiritual Life”...that is what Adam received when he breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

No, in the beginning as in all that God does - first natural then spiritual - important principle Rita!

All was perfect and they had great fellowship with the Father.

A Living Spiritual breathing person are Born Again....they have life in their spirit, because God breathed/ Spoke / testifies that to our spirit that we are His children.

Only once the mind is enlightened can one be born again.

Read your Bible with care.

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

If you mean you last breath leaves and goes upward then yes, agree. Nothing more than a last puff of wind!

No idea what you are saying here....it’s our spirit that goes to be with the Lord if we are Born Again.

In mind we become born again - let this mind be in your which was in Christ Jesus....Set you minds on things above and so on and so on!

There is NO scripture that says that our mind is Born Again...we are Born Of The Spirit...not the mind...it’s relayed to our mind that we are Born Again, by Gods witness the Holy Spirit.

Second time I've requested this....take me to Pauls teachings on the nature of Christ - failure to do so removes all credibility

Second time I’ve answered...this is a two way discussion...

Why?
Where was it removes?
Read Romans 8:1-3 and answer the question.


Just correcting a false understanding of Christ.

F2F

Once again you are correcting what “ you” believe to be the false teachings of Christ, with nothing to back up your claim.