Why did Jesus have to suffer and die?

[Tulipbee]

@JBO



Blasphemy Jesus is God

In Calvinism, blasphemy is generally viewed as speaking irreverently or disrespectfully against God, sacred things, or religious doctrines. It is considered a serious offense, reflecting a profound disrespect for the divine. Calvinists often derive their understanding of blasphemy from biblical teachings, emphasizing the importance of honoring God's name and maintaining a proper reverence for the sacred.
Telling someone that they have blasphemed in a Calvinist context might involve pointing out instances where their words or actions are perceived as disrespectful or irreverent toward God or matters of faith. This could include using profanity or making derogatory statements about religious beliefs. The judgment of blasphemy is often based on the interpretation of religious teachings and a commitment to upholding the sanctity of God and the faith. It's essential for you to approach such discussions with sensitivity and respect for differing perspectives on religious matters.

 

[brightfame52]

@Tulipbee

In Calvinism, blasphemy is generally viewed as speaking irreverently or disrespectfully against God, sacred things, or religious doctrines. It is considered a serious offense, reflecting a profound disrespect for the divine. Calvinists often derive their understanding of blasphemy from biblical teachings, emphasizing the importance of honoring God's name and maintaining a proper reverence for the sacred.
Telling someone that they have blasphemed in a Calvinist context might involve pointing out instances where their words or actions are perceived as disrespectful or irreverent toward God or matters of faith.

I quoted the posters statement which is disrespectful to a very sacred doctrine, The saving death of Christ. Seems like you should have seen that plainly to what I was referring. Perhaps you dont see it as disrespectful to Christs Blood as I do.

 

[Tulipbee]

@Tulipbee



I quoted the posters statement which is disrespectful to a very sacred doctrine, The saving death of Christ. Seems like you should have seen that plainly to what I was referring. Perhaps you dont see it as disrespectful to Christs Blood as I do.

Ah, pate, we've stumbled upon a theological comedy club here, haven't we? Let's jazz it up Calvinist style, defending the traditional groove with some of Calvin's writings and a sprinkle of Bible quotes:
Now, pate, in the Calvinist handbook, blasphemy is like telling a knock-knock joke at the pearly gates – it's a big no-no. We're talking irreverence, disrespect, and, in Calvin's words, a serious offense that doesn't quite make it to the divine playlist.
Calvin once said, "The reverent fear of God is a bridle by which we are restrained from contemptuous conduct." So, think of blasphemy as stepping on the divine dance floor without the right moves.
Now, brightfame52, my fellow Calvinist dance partner, was quick to point out what seemed like a lyrical disrespect to the sacred doctrine of Christ's saving death. In the Calvinist jazz band, that's like playing off-key during the solo – it just doesn't hit the right note.
Let's add a Bible quote twist to this jazz ensemble. Proverbs 8:13 (ESV) says, "The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate." So, when it comes to sacred matters, we Calvinists are on the righteous side of the musical score.
So, pate, let's keep the theological jazz session lively and the Calvinist dance floor sacred. After all, in this comedy club, the punchlines are biblical, and the dance moves are predestined!

 

[brightfame52]

Ah, pate, we've stumbled upon a theological comedy club here, haven't we? Let's jazz it up Calvinist style, defending the traditional groove with some of Calvin's writings and a sprinkle of Bible quotes:
Now, pate, in the Calvinist handbook, blasphemy is like telling a knock-knock joke at the pearly gates – it's a big no-no. We're talking irreverence, disrespect, and, in Calvin's words, a serious offense that doesn't quite make it to the divine playlist.
Calvin once said, "The reverent fear of God is a bridle by which we are restrained from contemptuous conduct." So, think of blasphemy as stepping on the divine dance floor without the right moves.
Now, brightfame52, my fellow Calvinist dance partner, was quick to point out what seemed like a lyrical disrespect to the sacred doctrine of Christ's saving death. In the Calvinist jazz band, that's like playing off-key during the solo – it just doesn't hit the right note.
Let's add a Bible quote twist to this jazz ensemble. Proverbs 8:13 (ESV) says, "The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate." So, when it comes to sacred matters, we Calvinists are on the righteous side of the musical score.
So, pate, let's keep the theological jazz session lively and the Calvinist dance floor sacred. After all, in this comedy club, the punchlines are biblical, and the dance moves are predestined!

So do you believe this comment is disrespectful to the Blood and Death of Christ ?

@JBO said:

Jesus' death doesn't save anyone. God does.

 

[Tulipbee]

So do you believe this comment is disrespectful to the Blood and Death of Christ ?

@JBO said:

Ah, brightfame52, it seems we've got a theological jam session in progress! Let's keep the Calvinist comedy club grooving with some divine beats and a dash of Calvin's wisdom:
Now, when it comes to the comment about Jesus' death not saving anyone, it's like suggesting the lead singer isn't crucial to the band – a bit off-key, wouldn't you say? In the Calvinist orchestra, we're all about the transformative power of Christ's sacrifice, and Calvin would likely nod in agreement.
Picture it as a jazz riff where Jesus takes the spotlight, and God conducts the heavenly symphony. Calvin's notes would echo, emphasizing the centrality of Christ's redemptive melody. In the Calvinist groove, it's not a one-man show; Jesus' death is the crescendo orchestrated by the divine Composer.
And, brightfame52, your keen ear for detecting potential disrespect to the Blood and Death of Christ aligns with Calvinist sensibilities. Calvin himself would appreciate the discernment, as he often stressed the reverence due to these sacred doctrines.
So, let's keep this theological jazz alive, where the punchlines are divine, and the dance moves are predestined in the Calvinist comedy club!

 

[Runningman]

Yes, Amen! Indeed " at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Either willingly or unwillingly EVERY one.

And the last part that says "...to the glory of God the Father." It's important to give God glory where glory is due. Jesus won't be getting that glory for it belongs to God alone, the Father, the only true God. (John 17:3)

Philippians 2
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Runningman]

Romans 6:


We all sin. We all die according to God's law. So, we need atonement, Leviticus 17:


Jesus knew it, Luke 18:


Jesus said it was necessary, Luke 24:


Paul explained in Hebrews 10:


It was the will of God that Christ should die.


Jesus was the perfect sacrifice who died for us according to the will of God.

Philippians 2


As a result:


Amen.

Yes and it's important to note that it wasn't only a human body that died or else any body would do. For it is not the physical body itself that sin originates, but from the heart, from thew soul itself. Jesus never sinned even in his sou so that is what was sacrificed, not just a body. When Jesus died, Jesus completely died. Nothing was left.

Isaiah 53
10Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush Him
and to cause Him to suffer;
and when His soul is made a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days,
and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

 

[JBO]

@JBO



Blasphemy Jesus is God

Yes, Jesus is God. But His death does not save. He does. His death was the sacrifice through which God saves.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Jesus' death doesn't save anyone.

Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, Jesus is God. But His death does not save. He does. His death was the sacrifice through which God saves.

Yes Jesus is God so to say His Death doesnt save is most blasphemous.

 

[JBO]

Yes Jesus is God so to say His Death doesnt save is most blasphemous.

Oh groad! His death doesn't save. He does. He was the perfect sacrifice. It is by that sacrifice that he becomes the perfect propitiation. By His death, He paid the ransom for us. That ransom was paid to God the Father. In having been paid that ransom God forgives sin and gives the gift of eternal life.

 

[brightfame52]

Oh groad! His death doesn't save. He does. He was the perfect sacrifice. It is by that sacrifice that he becomes the perfect propitiation. By His death, He paid the ransom for us. That ransom was paid to God the Father. In having been paid that ransom God forgives sin and gives the gift of eternal life.

Those for whom Christ died are saved/redeemed by His Blood, and you flat out deny it. Rev 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed/saved us to God by thy blood/death out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

 

[TonyChanYT]

His death doesn't save.

What does his death do to you?

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus' death doesn't save anyone. God does. God's Holiness demands punishment for sins. God's Graciousness allows God, who is Holy, to impute the sins of mankind to Jesus. He is the perfect sacrifice. Jesus is the perfect sacrifice for the sins of the whole world; "He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). The only real question in this is who God's Elect are. And unfortunately, Calvinism or Reformed Theology gets it all wrong.

Wherever do we get the idea that God's Holiness demands punishment for sins?

 

[JBO]

Wherever do we get the idea that God's Holiness demands punishment for sins?

There are two distinct and somewhat different sides to God’s moral nature. Romans 11:22 sums up these two sides when it says, “Behold then the kindness and severity of God.” Interpreting these in the light of other Scripture, we can say that the two sides of His nature are love and holiness. We know that “God is love” (1 John 4:8). And we also know that God says, “I am holy” (1 Peter 1:16). His holy side includes his wrath, stated thus in Hebrews 12:29: “Our God is a consuming fire.”

God holiness demands that He separate Himself from all evil or if you prefer that He separate all evil from Himself. That separation is the punishment referred to has eternal condemnation or hell in contrast to heaven.

 

[JBO]

What does his death do to you?

Not to be too picky, but His death doesn't do anything to me. His death does so very, very much for me. His death is the perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world. It satisfied God's demand for the punishment of sin which for mankind is eternal condemnation, a complete and permanent separation from God in the next life. It is a ransom paid to release me from my debt owed to God for the sins I commit.

 

[TonyChanYT]

His death doesn't do anything to me

Do you have the Paraclete dwelling in you?

 

[JBO]

Do you have the Paraclete dwelling in you?

Yes, but again that is not something done to me, but rather for me. He is my helper, my intercessor. What was done to me was being saved. In being saved, I was forgiven of my sin and given the "Paraclete" as a gift.

Again, perhaps the being to picky for you.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Yes

Where is the Paraclet in you?

 

[quietthinker]

There are two distinct and somewhat different sides to God’s moral nature. Romans 11:22 sums up these two sides when it says, “Behold then the kindness and severity of God.” Interpreting these in the light of other Scripture, we can say that the two sides of His nature are love and holiness. We know that “God is love” (1 John 4:8). And we also know that God says, “I am holy” (1 Peter 1:16). His holy side includes his wrath, stated thus in Hebrews 12:29: “Our God is a consuming fire.”

holiness demands that He separate Himself from all evil or if you prefer that He separate all evil from Himself. That separation is the punishment referred to has eternal condemnation or hell in contrast to heaven.

Jesus is God revealed because nothing else God tried revealed to us his nature. He visited personally. Do you get a picture from Jesus of a God who demands sin must be punished?

Sin has its own consequences.....it implodes. If it weren't for God stepping in to halt/ stymie that implosion, humanity is headed for oblivion.

Those who perish are not the result of God inflicting a punishment but rather, God's love (his consuming fire) is unbearable to them and they prefer to die than stand in its presence.
It is torture for them to stand in the presence of the Lamb and his Holy angels and death is preferable.....even by their own hand.