Why did Jesus have to suffer and die?

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brightfame52

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All in deception say exactly that.
Not saying you're a bad person or that you're totally deceived, but you have a one-dimensional view of the New Covenant. All you can possibly see is the cross and the blood. The New Covenant goes 50 times deeper than that.
I can't remember if it's in Romans where it says that the blessings of Abraham would come upon the Gentiles.
That speaks directly to Covenant.

There's a story about a man that left England to come to the United States and he took a cruise ship along with hundreds of people. This man was very wise in his own mind and he decided to take cheese and crackers in his suitcase so he would save money on any food that might serve to drain his pocketbook.
Upon disembarking he boasted while in line that he had done just that that he had saved all kinds of money by sitting in his cabin the whole trip eating just cheese and crackers.
A huge laughter broke forth from all the people in line.
they were hysterically laughing. With a bewildered look on his face he said, "what's so funny" and they said the delicious three course meal we enjoyed. 3 times a day was included in the price of the ticket"
All in deception say Im not right.
 

rebuilder 454

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Thats exactly what people are saying who say that Jesus Christ shed His Blood for people who wind up lost in hell.

Then you have posters like this one that blatantly says it without any shame,

@JBO posted:
I believe his blood saves.
Yes 100%
And I would take that even further to say that anyone who enters heaven and is asked on what basis do you enter? There is only one answer." On the basis of the blood of Jesus"
 

rebuilder 454

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All in deception say Im not right.
No one believer has complete revelation.
Nobody.
We are a body and are each given a part.
Together we are one.
I need your revelation because you have a part as do all of us.
I am incomplete without you.
 

rebuilder 454

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We are humanoids. We can be deceived.
Only man that can not be deceived is Jesus.
My ony hope to be in truth is to get close to him, put by ear on his chest to hear his heartbeat while he speaks in my other ear.
I have a huge chance at that point to be in truth and not deception
Amen?
 

Scott Downey

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Absolutely, JBO, no more dance floors or intricate choreography – let's get straight to the heart of the matter!

In the grand theological conversation, let's tackle the issue of free will, a topic that often finds itself at the center stage of the Calvinist-Arminian dialogue.

Now, in the Calvinist arena, the spotlight shines on God's sovereignty. Picture this: a divine masterpiece where God, in His absolute sovereignty, orchestrates the unfolding drama of salvation. Calvin would likely remind us that it's not about human prowess on the theological stage but about God's sovereign hand directing the narrative.

You mentioned the universal call to repentance. In the Calvinist script, the call indeed goes out universally, like a divine proclamation echoing across the theological auditorium. However, the response, according to Calvinism, is a result of God's irresistible grace drawing the chosen ones to the front row of repentance.

Arminians, on the other hand, prefer a different script. Their narrative features a dynamic duo of free will and a universal invitation to the salvation soirée. Imagine an open invitation to the dance floor of redemption, where individuals, endowed with free will, decide whether to join the divine celebration.

Now, let's consult the Bible for a script check. Ephesians 1:4-5, in the Calvinist scene, emphasizes predestination and God's choosing before the foundation of the world. Arminians, however, may pivot to verses that highlight the universal offer of salvation, like 2 Peter 3:9.

So, JBO, in this theological theater, Calvinists and Arminians are reciting their lines, each convinced of the script's authenticity. It's a theological drama where free will and God's sovereignty engage in a riveting dialogue, leaving the audience pondering the intricacies of divine providence. No more dance analogies – just a straightforward exploration of the theological script!
2 Peter 3:9 has no clear open offer as Peter writes to the beloved elect who God is not willing that any of those He gives to Christ be lost.
US in the verse refers to any of US (the beloved audience Peter wrote to as in the church). Any is subject to US, as in any of US in the beloved.

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward [c]us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

John 6:39
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
 
T

Tulipbee

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2 Peter 3:9 has no clear open offer as Peter writes to the beloved elect who God is not willing that any of those He gives to Christ be lost.
US in the verse refers to any of US (the beloved audience Peter wrote to as in the church). Any is subject to US, as in any of US in the beloved.

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward [c]us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

John 6:39
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
Ah, Scott Downey, the theological stage is set, and the spotlight is on the cosmic drama of free will and divine sovereignty! Let's embark on this script analysis without the need for intricate choreography.

In the Calvinist scene, Ephesians 1:4-5 unfolds like a divine masterpiece, emphasizing predestination and God's choosing before the world's foundation. Picture this: a celestial casting call where God, in His sovereign directorial debut, selects the cast for the ultimate redemption saga. Calvin might nod approvingly, saying, "Verily, the drama unfolds according to the divine script, with no role left to chance."

Now, 2 Peter 3:9 enters the theological script, a verse with nuanced roles. Calvinists might argue that the "us" refers to the beloved elect, emphasizing God's meticulous care for those He gives to Christ. The cosmic dance of predestination in action, where God's patience leads to the repentance of the chosen ones.

And behold, John 6:39 takes center stage, echoing the Father's will for Christ to lose none of those given to Him. Calvin would likely quip, "In the grand finale, the redeemed rise on the last day, a testament to the divine director's flawless execution."

Arminians, however, may prefer a different script – one where the universal call to repentance takes center stage, inviting all to the dance floor of salvation. It's a dynamic dialogue where free will responds to the divine invitation.

So, Scott, in this theological theater, the script may vary, but the narrative explores the intricacies of divine providence and human response. No dance analogies needed – just a straightforward exploration of the theological script! #TheologicalTheater
 

jar1437

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Christianity is founded on the belief that Jesus Christ died for us and rose again on the third day. The Messiah’s death is so fundamental to the Christian faith that the Cross has been adopted as the identifying mark of Christianity.

For thousands of years, the Cross has adorned the steeples of churches as a beacon of hope, silently bearing witness to Jesus’s incredible sacrifice on our behalf.

Our Heavenly Father has provided us abundant opportunities to learn the meaning behind the Cross and what Jesus’s death accomplished for every person.


The Gospel has been radiating the warmth of God’s love, reassuring humanity that He cares for our well-being.

But how many have taken the time to think about why Jesus would die for us? How many have pondered over the incredible concept of a crucified Saviour? How many have sought God to understand who He is and what He did for us?

Following are ten reasons why our Lord Jesus Christ died for us:


1) To save us from the curse of the law.

2) To take the punishment for our sins.

3) To forgive our sins.

4) To reconcile us back to God and make us appear Holy before Him.

5) To become our mediator/intercessor/High Priest.

6) To awaken us from Spiritual Death.

7) To give us eternal life.

8) To defeat Satan.

9) To reveal God’s love for us.

10) To save us from God’s wrath.


Read the detailed article at (link removed. Please read forum rules re: new members and links in posts)
 
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brightfame52

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@jar1437

Following are ten reasons why our Lord Jesus Christ died for us:


1) To save us from the curse of the law.

2) To take the punishment for our sins.

3) To forgive our sins.

4) To reconcile us back to God and make us appear Holy before Him.

5) To become our mediator/intercessor/High Priest.

6) To awaken us from Spiritual Death.

7) To give us eternal life.

8) To defeat Satan.

9) To reveal God’s love for us.

10) To save us from God’s wrath.
So is everyone He died for saved from their sins and have eternal life ?
 

Jay Ross

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No, only those who willingly chose to inhabit God's fertile field that He sows will be saved. Genesis 12:3.
 

Jay Ross

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You haven't presented a justification for saying its true.

Likewise, you haven't presented a justification for saying it is false either.

All I have done is followed the Hebrew words used in this verse that confirms who the people are that will be saved/blessed by Abraham's descendants.

If I have misunderstood the meanings of the Hebrew words in this verse, then that is my bad, but you sir have not provided the evidence that what I have posted is false.

I away your logical reasoning on the meaning of the Hebrew words in this verse.

Shalom
 

Ritajanice

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Q
@jar1437


So is everyone He died for saved from their sins and have eternal life ?
.?

"I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep . . . As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep . . . Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."
John 10:11, 15, 17-18, KJV

"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Romans 5:6-8, KJV

"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;"
1 Corinthians 15:3, KJV

"Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."
Galatians 1:3-5, KJV

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
1 John 2:1-2, KJV

"Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."
1 John 4:10, KJV
 

Ritajanice

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Romans 5
Berean Standard Bible Par ▾
The Triumph of Faith
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we havea peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we stand. And we rejoiceb in the hope of the glory of God.
3Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope.5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us.
Christ’s Sacrifice for the Ungodly
(John 3:1–21)
6For at just the right time, while we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him! 10For if, when we were enemies of God, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life! 11Not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
(Genesis 3:1–7)
12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. 13For sin was in the world before the law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who did not sin in the way that Adam transgressed. He is a pattern of the One to come.
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many! 16Again, the gift is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment that followed one sin brought condemnation, but the gift that followed many trespasses brought justification.17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18So then, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20The law came in so that the trespass would increase; but where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

brightfame52

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Likewise, you haven't presented a justification for saying it is false either.

All I have done is followed the Hebrew words used in this verse that confirms who the people are that will be saved/blessed by Abraham's descendants.

If I have misunderstood the meanings of the Hebrew words in this verse, then that is my bad, but you sir have not provided the evidence that what I have posted is false.

I away your logical reasoning on the meaning of the Hebrew words in this verse.

Shalom
Since you brought it up first, you should prove it first from scripture. We have a right to say its false if you didnt prove it from scripture, duh
 

Jay Ross

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Since you brought it up first, you should prove it first from scripture. We have a right to say its false if you didn't prove it from scripture, duh

The word that is generally translated as "earth" in this verse is "הָאֲדָמָֽה" which has the embedded Hebrew Root word "אֲדָמָה" (H:0127) which in turn comes from H:0120. If the Hebrew word was meant to be understood to be as "earth" then one would have expected that the same Hebrew word used in Genesis 12:1 would have also been used in verse 3, "אֲדָמָה" which in Genesis 1:1 is translated as "earth," " הָאָֽרֶץ" (H0776), but when we get to Genesis 12 and onwards, this word flip flops in its translation between "earth" and "land."

Why is this so? The Jewish Nation became fixated upon the "Promised Land" and as such the scriptures have become "corrupted" because of this supposed "forever" promise.

Will everyone who have lived upon the earth, from Adam to the time of the GWTR Judgement, be save? No. Only those people who have chosen to inhabit God's fertile soil/field during their lifetime before they physically died.

This theme can be found throughout the whole scriptures.

The theological implication that is being pushed on this forum by some is the Universal understanding that eventually every person will be saved, but the reality is that this is not so. Only those who have accepted God's terms for salvation will be judged to be righteous at the end of the Seventh Age, and this judgement as to whether we are righteous or unrighteous will be final.

Shalom
 

brightfame52

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The word that is generally translated as "earth" in this verse is "הָאֲדָמָֽה" which has the embedded Hebrew Root word "אֲדָמָה" (H:0127) which in turn comes from H:0120. If the Hebrew word was meant to be understood to be as "earth" then one would have expected that the same Hebrew word used in Genesis 12:1 would have also been used in verse 3, "אֲדָמָה" which in Genesis 1:1 is translated as "earth," " הָאָֽרֶץ" (H0776), but when we get to Genesis 12 and onwards, this word flip flops in its translation between "earth" and "land."

Why is this so? The Jewish Nation became fixated upon the "Promised Land" and as such the scriptures have become "corrupted" because of this supposed "forever" promise.

Will everyone who have lived upon the earth, from Adam to the time of the GWTR Judgement, be save? No. Only those people who have chosen to inhabit God's fertile soil/field during their lifetime before they physically died.

This theme can be found throughout the whole scriptures.

The theological implication that is being pushed on this forum by some is the Universal understanding that eventually every person will be saved, but the reality is that this is not so. Only those who have accepted God's terms for salvation will be judged to be righteous at the end of the Seventh Age, and this judgement as to whether we are righteous or unrighteous will be final.

Shalom
I dont see that in scripture. This is a bunch of rubbish
 

Jay Ross

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I dont see that in scripture. This is a bunch of rubbish

So, I provided what you wanted me to do. I provided a short explanation as to why only those who rest in God's fertile field will be saved and you then call it rubbish with the claim that you do not see that in scripture.

All that you have done is provide an opinion with no basis for that opinion.

If you have not seen what I have posted in the scripture, then can I ask, "When was the last time you read the scriptures for yourself and meditated upon the words that you read?"