Why did Jesus have to suffer and die?

[brightfame52]

Who offered Jesus as a sacrifice? the people, or God Himself?

Provide verse/s in answer.

F2F

Y don't you have a answer as well

 

[face2face]

....and you continue to draw a blank when I ask you to tell me of Jehovah. You claim to be a witness to Jehovah yet you can not or will not address this simplest of questions.
What I observe you doing is making a lot of words, words which don't give hope to anybody......words which only flatter your own perceived 'rightness'. Men from every religious persuasion engage that baby. They tried it on Jesus and his mates. He replied, 'leave them, they are blind guides; if the blind follow the blind they will both fall into the ditch'

It's Yahweh quiet, not Jehovah...no doubt you know the grammatical history...the how's and why's they got it wrong. Maybe you just have a habit of posting error and when something truthful is shown to you, you do what you have done above and in every post. Try allowing God's Word to speak...it's not difficult.

 

[face2face]

Why was it necessary for Jesus to be offered by God as a living sacrifice? For a Christian forum you all aren't doing that well.

 

[quietthinker]

It's Yahweh quiet, not Jehovah...no doubt you know the grammatical history...the how's and why's they got it wrong. Maybe you just have a habit of posting error and when something truthful is shown to you, you do what you have done above and in every post. Try allowing God's Word to speak...it's not difficult.

Yet you call yourselves Jehovah's Witnesses, not Yahweh's Witnesses......as you make a mountain out of a molehill above and sidestep the point.....the point being your inability or refusal in bygone posts to share with us of Jehovah/ Yahweh.....and I would suggest you do not and you cannot even though you claim to be his witnesses.....firstly, because technically speaking God is a Spirit and secondly because you do not recognise Jesus as God in the flesh but rather a created being......so you mumble and bumble about a whole lot of irrelevancies.

 

[Lambano]

I remember some fascinating discussions over on the old Key Life Forums initiated by a new Christian who had come to Christ from a Buddhist background. His life changed dramatically when he came to know Jesus, but the whole Christian theology centered around Christ's "Atonement" was bizarre to him. He'd seen actual Santeria sacrifices in Haiti (ick!) and thought them primitive and repulsive, yet Christians embrace the idea of blood sacrifice. Why IS it necessary? If God commands us to forgive others when they trespass against us, why doesn't God just forgive sin? Why is it necessary to punish someone? If God is just, how can killing an innocent man to exonerate a guilty one be considered "justice"? How does killing another living thing cleanse us of sin? How does all this blood make anything better? If the Atonement was ransom, to whom was it paid? If the answer is "Satan", why does God negotiate with terrorists? We rarely ask these questions because we've grown up just accepting it.

Anyway, it was some good discussions, and I had to do some research about all the different models of the Atonement, including Satisfaction Theory, Penal Satisfaction, Ransom, Governmental, Exemplary (plus some other bizarre modern theories), each one having some Biblical grounding. And each one having some unresolvable issues with it.

 

[face2face]

Yet you call yourselves Jehovah's Witnesses, not Yahweh's Witnesses......as you make a mountain out of a molehill above and sidestep the point.....the point being your inability or refusal in bygone posts to share with us of Jehovah/ Yahweh.....and I would suggest you do not and you cannot even though you claim to be his witnesses.....firstly, because technically speaking God is a Spirit and secondly because you do not recognise Jesus as God in the flesh but rather a created being......so you mumble and bumble about a whole lot of irrelevancies.

Here, let me lead you into the Word and see if you are able to discern its meaning.

Mark 14:27 And Jesus said to them, “You will all fall away, for it is written, ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.

Who is doing the striking?
Who was the shepherd?
Why did He strike him?

F2F

 

[face2face]

For everyone else...

Mark 14:27 is quoting Zec 13:7

“Awake, sword, against my shepherd, against the man who is my associate,” says the Lord who rules over all. Strike the shepherd that the flock may be scattered; I will turn my hand against the insignificant ones.

Of course God is not striking God - utter foolishness! God is the one awakening the sword and it is He Who strikes the shepherd.

For those who want to understand why, what was the cost to Him? Why does he smite the earth, Israel... His Son let the Bible Study begin!

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

.

 

[Phil .]

The concept of sin is incompatible with the reality of innocence.

 

[face2face]

.

Profound quiet.

Who is doing the striking in Mark 14 & Zech 13?
Who was the shepherd?
Why did He strike him?
What did God achieve in smiting him?
How do we know He achieved His Plan?

F2F

 

[face2face]

The concept of sin is incompatible with the reality of innocence.

What if the reality of both converged on one man?

 

[quietthinker]

Profound quiet.

Who is doing the striking in Mark 14 & Zech 13?
Who was the shepherd?
Why did He strike him?
What did God achieve in smiting him?
How do we know He achieved His Plan?

F2F

what are you wanting to tell me F2F?

 

[Phil .]

What if the reality of both converged on one man?

That sin & innocence are incompatible is just another way of saying there is not a reality of both.
One is imagined or believed, while innocence is aware of the imagining or believing.

 

[face2face]

what are you wanting to tell me F2F?

Let every man be convinced in his own mind.

 

[face2face]

That sin & innocence are incompatible is just another way of saying there is not a reality of both.
One is imagined or believed, while innocence is aware of the imagining or believing.

How was Christ made sin for us while being innocent?

 

[Phil .]

How was Christ made sin for us while being innocent?

Innocence (not innocent).

 

[brightfame52]

How was Christ made sin for us while being innocent?

By Imputation, the sins and guilt of sinners He was made Surety for, was charged, reckoned, imputed to His account.

 

[Phil .]

Suffering is the discord of some thoughts.
Thoughts are only experienced presently.
There’s no such experience as “suffering in a past”.

 

[face2face]

By Imputation, the sins and guilt of sinners He was made Surety for, was charged, reckoned, imputed to His account.

How was your sin represented in his body?

 

[face2face]

Innocence (not innocent).

Allow me to rephrase it for you.

How was Christ made sin for us while being sinless?

Try Romans 6:9 to start then we can move into more challenging text.

Enjoy.