Why do Catholics…

[Marymog]

Open , read , love and embrace all things JESUS taught , all things the apostels taught....

I have. And many men before me has. What we believe and has been taught for 2,000 years is OPPOSITE of your lone wolf Christian belief. Scripture does not teach what you preach.

 

[Marymog]

Be careful how ye hear .
For if the light that is in you be darkness HOW great that darkness is .................satan knows how to decieve and so do his men .

Part of satans deception is convincing people that they can sit in their basement and read Scripture and come up with their own truth because they feel like they are being guided by the Holy Spirit. It is true. They are being guided by a spirit....just not the one they think they are being guided by. Oh my what destruction the Protestant Revolution has brought us......

Church of Scotland to allow same-sex marriages - BBC News

Quote from Church of Scotland's "faith": Although the Church traces its roots back to the beginnings of Christianity in Scotland, its identity was principally formed by John Knox in the Reformation of 1560. At that time, the Church split from the Roman Catholic Church and instead adopted the reformed tradition. The Church of Scotland is Calvinist Presbyterian; we recognize no head of faith other than the Lord God, and no one person or group within the Church has more influence than any other.

Amigo de christo's "faith": I recognize no head of faith other than the Lord God, and no one person or group within the Church has more influence than any other.

 

[Marymog]

For many however, they have to learn how to read the bible without the glasses of a sect. Catholics, MOrmons, JW's, SDA's and others when they6 read the bible they have a predisposition that has taught them redefinitions of words.

Hey Ronald,

Could your statement apply to you also? What glasses do you read the bible thru?

Can you see how illogical and self-aggrandizing your statement is?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hey Ronald,

Could your statement apply to you also? What glasses do you read the bible thru?

Can you see how illogical and self-aggrandizing your statement is?

To allegorists like yourself it would.

But coming from romanism, to Pentacostalism, to evangelicalism to an independent dispensational church, I have studied and studied and researched how one should approach the word of God.

To me the best methos of biblical understanding is what has been dubbed the literal/historical/ grammatical hermeneutic of Scripture. It follows what has also been dubbed the golden rule of interpretation:

“When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”–Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965),
founder of The Biblical Research Society



This has often been shortened to “When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense, lest it result in nonsense.”

god did not hide meanings within meanings in Scripture like too many live by. even when passages are symbolic or apocalyptic, Scriptures themselves define th esymbols/dreams/visions or the figures and things found symbolically, so we don't have to go searching outside of Gods Word to find the definitions.

this methodology allows SCripture to speak and stand on its own without having to have others comment on its basic meaning. Now there can be gleaned many life applications, but there is only one interpretation.

 

[Illuminator]

What Jesus means by “”the flesh profits nothing” is very simple because he uses the phrase again in John 8:15 (we must let the Bible interpret the Bible where he says:

“You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.” (John 8:15, NKJV)

Other Bibles translate this “according to the flesh”, or “by human standards”, or “by appearances” or “with your human mind“. When Jesus uses the phrase “the flesh” he is referring to human understanding apart from divine revelation. Unbelievers judge the Eucharist by human standards (“Looks like bread, feels like bread, tastes like bread — must be bread”).

This statement of Jesus affirms what he has said about eating his Flesh and drinking his Blood and tells us it is a great mystery — spirit and life. With these words Jesus castigates the unbelieving anti-Catholic along with the unbelieving Jews for judging spiritual things with earthly minds — by the flesh — and failing to understand the deep mysteries of God in the Eucharist. (which requires supernatural faith)

And by the way, this “symbol only“ mentality about Scripture and this passage in particular is only as old as the Protestant Reformation (er, I mean Rebellion). From the beginning of the Church Christians have understood that Jesus was speaking of his Flesh and Blood in the Eucharist — after all Jesus did not say, “This represents my body.“ he said “This is My Body!“

Too bad Brokelite wants to erase the words of Jesus or add his own puny interpretation to what the Word of God clearly states. Too bad the mystery goes right over his head.

 

[Marymog]

this methodology allows SCripture to speak and stand on its own without having to have others comment on its basic meaning. Now there can be gleaned many life applications, but there is only one interpretation.

Lol Ronald....Scripture speaks on it's own? No need for men to interpret it? Scripture disagrees with you: 2 Peter 1:20–21


Your killing me...

 

[Marymog]

But coming from romanism, to Pentacostalism, to evangelicalism to an independent dispensational church, I have studied and studied and researched how one should approach the word of God.

To me the best methos of biblical understanding is what has been dubbed the literal/historical/ grammatical hermeneutic of Scripture. It follows what has also been dubbed the golden rule of interpretation:

Hey Ronald,

You have convinced yourself that you are an expert on Scripture since your path in life took you from Romanism to Pentecostalism to evangelicalism to an independent dispensational church. It sounds like you are shopping around for what YOU believe is the truth. Scripture speaks of "sound doctrine". You know the passages...no need for me to quote them. Has your path led you to find that sound doctrine spoken of in Scripture?

And your 48 years of studying the bible in English, Greek and Hebrew and the books on the culture of the day! I'm just going to find someone that has 50 years of the same studying you have done! Using your logic they would be more qualified than you and anything you say that doesn't agree with them can be disgarded.....

Mary

 

[Brakelite]

You are a bit confused brakelite. I am not saying Jesus contradicted himself. YOU are saying he contradicted himself.

Jesus said MULTIPLE TIMES 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats of this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” “Very truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. 56 Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever eats me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like that which your ancestors ate, and they died. But the one who eats this bread will live forever.”

Notice how he said this AFTER he fed the 3,000 bread? Notice how he equated eating bread and eating Him to our ancestors eating manna from heaven. How much clearer can He make it for you Brakelite? He TOLD you that you must eat Him and then at the Last Supper he SHOWED you how to eat him.

Where you are confused is that you are inserting YOUR beliefs into His word. He didn't say MY flesh profit nothing. He said THE flesh profit nothing. I believe Him. YOU don't because your men have taught you wrong.

Paul asked you a question Brakelite: The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? YOUR answer to that question is NO Paul, it is NOT a communion in the body of Christ. A true Christian answers YES Paul, it is a communion in the body of Christ. That is why us Christians call the taking of bread/wine COMMUION! Because HIS flesh DOES profit us!

Keeping it real with Scripture....Mary

So for what purpose is eating flesh, when it is the spirit that gives life?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Lol Ronald....Scripture speaks on it's own? No need for men to interpret it? Scripture disagrees with you: 2 Peter 1:20–21


Your killing me...

Wow using a verse that contradicts you to defend your position??? That is funny! No Scripture is of anyone ones interpretation! Men spoke as God gave them the words! YOu need to relook at teh verse and see it condemns your position.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hey Ronald,

You have convinced yourself that you are an expert on Scripture since your path in life took you from Romanism to Pentecostalism to evangelicalism to an independent dispensational church. It sounds like you are shopping around for what YOU believe is the truth. Scripture speaks of "sound doctrine". You know the passages...no need for me to quote them. Has your path led you to find that sound doctrine spoken of in Scripture?

And your 48 years of studying the bible in English, Greek and Hebrew and the books on the culture of the day! I'm just going to find someone that has 50 years of the same studying you have done! Using your logic they would be more qualified than you and anything you say that doesn't agree with them can be disgarded.....

Mary

Fine, but if they do not accept the Bible as it is written they will still be just as wrong as you! I am 100% convinced I am holding to sdound doctrine. I f I believed something I was not sure was right, well their are doctors to counsel people who do stuff like that.

But as I said, I am not infallible. My life has shown I have searched paths to see the what and whys and to find out TRUTH. I stand clean before God.

I am always willing to change, if someone can show a better biblical argument! But because I do have 48 years experience, it has to be a very sound argument.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hey Ronald,

You have convinced yourself that you are an expert on Scripture since your path in life took you from Romanism to Pentecostalism to evangelicalism to an independent dispensational church. It sounds like you are shopping around for what YOU believe is the truth. Scripture speaks of "sound doctrine". You know the passages...no need for me to quote them. Has your path led you to find that sound doctrine spoken of in Scripture?

And your 48 years of studying the bible in English, Greek and Hebrew and the books on the culture of the day! I'm just going to find someone that has 50 years of the same studying you have done! Using your logic they would be more qualified than you and anything you say that doesn't agree with them can be disgarded.....

Mary

No, I am not a self proclaimed expert. I do know much, but I also need to learn much more! No matter how many years one studies, there is more to learn and grow in Gods Word.

But if you know of qa better way of understanding the Bible other than what is dubbed the literal/historical/grammatical method, I am all ears!

Try presentig an argument instead of using subtl ad-hominems and then making them straw men to beat on.

 

[farouk]

No, I am not a self proclaimed expert. I do know much, but I also need to learn much more! No matter how many years one studies, there is more to learn and grow in Gods Word.

But if you know of qa better way of understanding the Bible other than what is dubbed the literal/historical/grammatical method, I am all ears!

Try presentig an argument instead of using subtl ad-hominems and then making them straw men to beat on.

@Ronald Nolette The historical-grammatical method of interpreting the Scriptures came out of the Renaissance and Reformation.

It was the very opposite of the idea of the existing system reading meaning into the Scriptures.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@Ronald Nolette The historical-grammatical method of interpreting the Scriptures came out of the Renaissance and Reformation.

It was the very opposite of the idea of the existing system reading meaning into the Scriptures.

Well actuall it was teh restoration of how to properly read SCripture.

Thanks to Augustine , teh allegorical method grew and took hold of the church and led to the dark ages.

The allegorical method is akin to Jewish kabalism- looking for a subtext underneath the text. Or as they say today-- "reading between the lines".
Every time I try to read between the lines- all I see is blank space!!!!

 

[farouk]

Well actuall it was teh restoration of how to properly read SCripture.

Thanks to Augustine , teh allegorical method grew and took hold of the church and led to the dark ages.

The allegorical method is akin to Jewish kabalism- looking for a subtext underneath the text. Or as they say today-- "reading between the lines".
Every time I try to read between the lines- all I see is blank space!!!!

@Ronald Nolette There was some good about Augustine's writings; but what you say about allegory supposedly taking precedence over the meaning of words in their context: this is not helpful to do this; you are absolutely right.

 

[Philip James]

So for what purpose is eating flesh, when it is the spirit that gives life?

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

These words are Spirit and Life!

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

So for what purpose is eating flesh, when it is the spirit that gives life?

Religious cannabalism!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@Ronald Nolette There was some good about Augustine's writings; but what you say about allegory supposedly taking precedence over the meaning of words in their context: this is not helpful to do this; you are absolutely right.

Every church leader, has some good teachings! But when the poison overwhelms the good- it is wise to leave them aside.

 

[Philip James]

it is wise to leave them aside.

Non serviam is always the enemy's cry..

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour.

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Marymog]

No, I am not a self proclaimed expert..

Hmmm...you sure do present yourself as a (braggadocios) self proclaimed expert. I have come to this conclusion based on the following quotes from you:

I graduated bible college with a major in theology and minor in pastoral studies.
I have shared the gospel on five continents.
I have appeared on TV and radio discussing Scriptures.
I have taught at end times seminars.
I was a volunteer chaplain for a county jail for 8 1/2 years and saw close to 800 come to Christ.
I have discipled several people and taught discipling methods to over four churches.
I helped create the curriculum and taught in bible College and Bible Institute.
I have taught many Bible Studies, Mid week services and Adult Sunday schools.
I have been to Israel and shared the gospel there as well.
I am 100% convinced I am holding to sdound [sic] doctrine.
But because I do have 48 years experience, it has to be a very sound argument.
..... years of intense study.
but after 48 years of studying the word and walking with god, One needs to present a very detailed argument.
I have practiced apologetics for many years so I have studied doctrine deeply, from many facets.
In my 48 years I have read close to 800 books as ell as manuscripts, tractises et al.
But in all th at reading I compare their conclusions with what Scripture says.
And I hold to th eliteral/historical/grammatical method of understanding Scripture!
I can testify that I have been received with great love and care on four continents by believers who welcomed my teaching
I have followed the word of God for 48 years now!
But you have a fatal problem (along with many others) Maybe you should rethink your position.
As usual, you take a biblical truth and then stretch it way beyond what God is saying!
But this is a patent result of shallow bible study.

But I digress.....

 

[Marymog]

So for what purpose is eating flesh, when it is the spirit that gives life?

Ummmmm....because He told you to....