Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?

[theefaith]

@theefaith we are all trying to give you a wider understanding of Church than the restricted one you have. You do not appear to use your own voice but re-hash the falsehoods you have been taught from a young age, thus preventing you from seeking Jesus for yourself. Please, prayerfully reflect on what has been said to you. Perhaps even consider that what you believe may not, in fact, be the truth. Don't continue to accept the Catholic teaching without realising that by doing so you may be rejecting Jesus just as the religious leaders of his day did. Which is most important to you, church as you see it or Jesus? And please don't reply in quotes or scripture references.

Do we not owe obedience to Christ the king?

 

[Pearl]

Do we not owe obedience to Christ the king?

Of course we do because he is our Saviour, the Head of the Church. the King of kings and the Lord of lords. He has given me new life in him, when I was saved I was made a new creation and am being transformed by the renewing of my mind.

And although the bible tells us to obey those in authority over us our first allegiance has to be to Jesus. He is the only man who was ever infallible.

 

[Cassandra]

the Holy Spirit had a role here

But isn't the function of Mary and the saints to help intercede with God?


So you are telling me that God the Holy Spirit hears your prayer, carries it to Mary and the saints who, in turn, talk to God about it, even though He already has heard it?
That is pretty silly. Our God would have set up a better system.
The Bible is clear that we have one intercessor. It has been quoted so many times to you. 1 Tim 2:5 " For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

And as for baptism of infants, God makes allowances for children because they do not know good from bad
Deut 1:39 " And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad—they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it"

Adam and Eve were not under death for anything until they knew good from bad. Gen 2:16,17

And baptism of children was practiced by the pagans.

"In Egypt, the Book of Going Forth by Day contains a treatise on the baptism of newborn children, which is performed to purify them of blemishes acquired in the womb. Water, especially the Nile's cold water, which was believed to have regenerative powers, is used to baptize the dead in a ritual based on the Osiris myth. Egyptian cults also developed the idea of regeneration through water. The bath preceding initiation into the cult of Isis seems to have been more than a simple ritual purification; it was probably intended to represent symbolically the initiate's death to the life of this world by recalling Osiris' drowning in the Nile."

Baptism: A Pre-Christian History

You are using tradition to validate these things. But if they were that critical to salvation, they would have been mentioned.
Your church cannot save you. Only Jesus can. You must know this.

 

[Pearl]

There is the 2000 yr history of the church founded by Christ that has always baptized infants
Jn 3:5 cannot enter the kingdom without baptism

There well might be but it still doesn't make it right. They used to call it Christening now it's called baptism and I'm all for parents who are Christian bringing their babies to be blessed.

 

[theefaith]

Your spiritual mother?
What scripture taught you Mary your spiritual mother?
What scripture taught you to pray to any other person?

Mary is our spiritual mother

Mary is the Mother of the living in Christ and the new creation!

Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not just asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so.

Jesus is in the very least making Mary John’s spiritual mother! And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He proved Mary the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.

 

[Pearl]

Although I admire her greatly she is not my spiritual mother.

God is both father and mother:
Isaiah 66:13
As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you; and you will be comforted over Jerusalem.”

 

[Pearl]

But isn't the function of Mary and the saints to help intercede with God?


So you are telling me that God the Holy Spirit hears your prayer, carries it to Mary and the saints who, in turn, talk to God about it, even though He already has heard it?
That is pretty silly. Our God would have set up a better system.
The Bible is clear that we have one intercessor. It has been quoted so many times to you. 1 Tim 2:5 " For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

And as for baptism of infants, God makes allowances for children because they do not know good from bad
Deut 1:39 " And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad—they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it"

Adam and Eve were not under death for anything until they knew good from bad. Gen 2:16,17

And baptism of children was practiced by the pagans.

"In Egypt, the Book of Going Forth by Day contains a treatise on the baptism of newborn children, which is performed to purify them of blemishes acquired in the womb. Water, especially the Nile's cold water, which was believed to have regenerative powers, is used to baptize the dead in a ritual based on the Osiris myth. Egyptian cults also developed the idea of regeneration through water. The bath preceding initiation into the cult of Isis seems to have been more than a simple ritual purification; it was probably intended to represent symbolically the initiate's death to the life of this world by recalling Osiris' drowning in the Nile."

Baptism: A Pre-Christian History

You are using tradition to validate these things. But if they were that critical to salvation, they would have been mentioned.
Your church cannot save you. Only Jesus can. You must know this.

Brilliant.

 

[Moriah's Song]

There is the 2000 yr history of the church founded by Christ that has always baptized infants
Jn 3:5 cannot enter the kingdom without baptism

"But immediately after Irenaeus, in the last years of the second century, Tertullian appears as a zealous opponent of infant baptism; a proof that the practice had not as yet come to be regarded as an apostolic institution; for otherwise, he would hardly have ventured to express himself so strongly against it. We perceive from his argument against infant baptism, that its advocates already appealed to Matt. 19:14, a passage which it would be natural for everyone to apply in this manner. 'Our Lord rebuked not the little children, but commanded them to be brought to him that he might bless them.' Tertullian advises, that in consideration of the great importance of the transaction, and of the preparation necessary to be made for it on the part of the recipients, baptism, as a general thing, should rather he delayed than prematurely applied, and he takes this occasion to declare himself particularly opposed to haste in the baptism of children. In answer to the objection drawn from those words of Christ, he replies: - 'Let them come, while they are growing up; let them come while they are learning, while they are being taught to what it is they are coming; let them become Christians, when they are susceptible of the knowledge of Christ. What haste, to procure the forgiveness of sins for the age of innocence?" (Neander's History of the Christian Religion and Church, Vol. 1, p. 312).​

John 3:5 does NOT say that unless INFANTS are baptized, they will go to hell!!!

Jesus was talking to an adult named Nicodemus; nothing whatsoever was implied anything about infants! Please stop twisting scripture like this.You should also post the verse content so we can see that it has been used properly.

 

[theefaith]

ABSOLUTEY!
Are you?

no! To both of us!

 

[theefaith]

no! To both of us!

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

 

[theefaith]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Proof of true faith is humble s humble subjection and obedience to Christ and His holy church!



————————-
Faith is part of works!

Works is defined as something we choose to do, volition!

Faith is also works because you have to choose to believe! Jn 1:12 Jn 3:16 rom 10:9

And continue to believe, a perpetual state of believing. Matt 24:13 Jn 15:1-5

 

[Moriah's Song]

Moriah's Song said: ↑
ABSOLUTEY!
Are you?

no! To both of us!

??? I can't speak for you and you can't speak for me!

 

[theefaith]

But isn't the function of Mary and the saints to help intercede with God?


So you are telling me that God the Holy Spirit hears your prayer, carries it to Mary and the saints who, in turn, talk to God about it, even though He already has heard it?
That is pretty silly. Our God would have set up a better system.
The Bible is clear that we have one intercessor. It has been quoted so many times to you. 1 Tim 2:5 " For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

And as for baptism of infants, God makes allowances for children because they do not know good from bad
Deut 1:39 " And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad—they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it"

Adam and Eve were not under death for anything until they knew good from bad. Gen 2:16,17

And baptism of children was practiced by the pagans.

"In Egypt, the Book of Going Forth by Day contains a treatise on the baptism of newborn children, which is performed to purify them of blemishes acquired in the womb. Water, especially the Nile's cold water, which was believed to have regenerative powers, is used to baptize the dead in a ritual based on the Osiris myth. Egyptian cults also developed the idea of regeneration through water. The bath preceding initiation into the cult of Isis seems to have been more than a simple ritual purification; it was probably intended to represent symbolically the initiate's death to the life of this world by recalling Osiris' drowning in the Nile."

Baptism: A Pre-Christian History

You are using tradition to validate these things. But if they were that critical to salvation, they would have been mentioned.
Your church cannot save you. Only Jesus can. You must know this.

james 5:16
Rev 5:8

 

[theefaith]

There well might be but it still doesn't make it right. They used to call it Christening now it's called baptism and I'm all for parents who are Christian bringing their babies to be blessed.

jn 16:13

 

[theefaith]

There well might be but it still doesn't make it right. They used to call it Christening now it's called baptism and I'm all for parents who are Christian bringing their babies to be blessed.

acts 2:39 this promise (ez 36:25/37) it to you’re CHILDREN!!!

 

[theefaith]

Although I admire her greatly she is not my spiritual mother.

God is both father and mother:
Isaiah 66:13
As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you; and you will be comforted over Jerusalem.”

then you are saying you are not a disciple!!!

 

[theefaith]

"But immediately after Irenaeus, in the last years of the second century, Tertullian appears as a zealous opponent of infant baptism; a proof that the practice had not as yet come to be regarded as an apostolic institution; for otherwise, he would hardly have ventured to express himself so strongly against it. We perceive from his argument against infant baptism, that its advocates already appealed to Matt. 19:14, a passage which it would be natural for everyone to apply in this manner. 'Our Lord rebuked not the little children, but commanded them to be brought to him that he might bless them.' Tertullian advises, that in consideration of the great importance of the transaction, and of the preparation necessary to be made for it on the part of the recipients, baptism, as a general thing, should rather he delayed than prematurely applied, and he takes this occasion to declare himself particularly opposed to haste in the baptism of children. In answer to the objection drawn from those words of Christ, he replies: - 'Let them come, while they are growing up; let them come while they are learning, while they are being taught to what it is they are coming; let them become Christians, when they are susceptible of the knowledge of Christ. What haste, to procure the forgiveness of sins for the age of innocence?" (Neander's History of the Christian Religion and Church, Vol. 1, p. 312).​

John 3:5 does NOT say that unless INFANTS are baptized, they will go to hell!!!

I did not say that! But they cannot enter heaven with original sin

Jesus was talking to an adult named Nicodemus; nothing whatsoever was implied anything about infants! Please stop twisting scripture like this.You should also post the verse content so we can see that it has been used properly.

acts 2:38/39 this promise (ez 36:25-27) is to you’re CHILDREN!

 

[theefaith]

Moriah's Song said: ↑
ABSOLUTEY!
Are you?

??? I can't speak for you and you can't speak for me!

no but scripture says not saved until the end!
And just cos you say you’re saved don’t make you saved!

 

[Moriah's Song]

acts 2:38/39 this promise (ez 36:25-27) is to you’re CHILDREN!

Now there you go again misquoting scripture!

Act 2:38...And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39...For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."

And what is the promise; it is the "promise of salvation" to ANYONE who calls on the name of the Lord. Can an infant call upon the name of the Lord? I don't think so!! An infant calls for MaMa not the Lord - yet!

The thief on the cross was never baptized yet he went to heaven with Jesus. Therefore, children who cannot understand the gospel do not go to hell.

 

[Jim B]

It the wonderment that is not resolved, thus the question of the OP....Why?

The scripture teaches to not make images. Not bow down to them or their images. The wonderment is WHY does the catholic church promote, do, make images of Mary, bow down themselves to the images, call on her name?

Why expressly teach, preach, do....the exact opposite of what Gods says?

EX 20:5
[5] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

The Catholic church has taken their own complex path from away the truths and simplicity of the New Testament. They have created a "tower of Babylon" structure that is based more on OT rituals, priesthood, priestly garments, rituals, ornate structures, etc. It bears no resemblance to the structure and meaning of the New Covenant.