He also came to fulfill all the law and the prophets. And like a fulfilled prophecy that no longer has relevance except from an educational standpoint, so also the law. It was fulfilled and superseded by the greater law of Christ.Raeneske said:
Why Do Christians Not Honor The Sabbath?
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Yes, Christ came to fulfill the law. But consider what Christ said. "Think not I am come to destroy the law... I am come to fulfill." What does the definition of fulfill mean? According to Modern Day Theology, to keep it, and then remove the requirement from keeping it. So literally, I came not to destroy the law, but to keep it myself and remove it from your obligation as a Christian. That is a contradiction. I didn't come to destroy it, but do away with it. That makes no sense.ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
So, you're calling the Sabbath "Jewish"?mjrhealth said:
You keep posting things about faith and works of the law, as if we have not gone down this same road time and time again. Dear MJRHealth, I have repeatedly shared with you the obligation of keeping the commandments is merely that - an obligation. It is not to get saved, and it never was. As in the OT, it is in the NT, the just have always lived by faith. They simply obeyed God, Sabbath and all.
Jesus did do it all. So does that mean you can go and break commandment number 2 now? What about 7? 6? No, obviously not. So why is that kind of illogical thinking applied to number 4? Because of common theology. Because if you searched the Scriptures, you would find out God says keep them all, or none of them. Again, the Sabbath Commandment is in the Moral Law, not the Ceremonial One. The Sabbath says "Remember" not forget. I do not understand how you can take human hands to God's law, and try to erase the obligation of the 4th One. How you can take verses which do not apply to the other 9 commandments quite clearly, but say it's talking about number 4. It is illogical, and out of context, and THAT is a contradiction.
The Sabbath is a work and you need to work at keeping it? You have to BREAK the law, to keep the Sabbath? ... No. What you said was a contradiction, not what the Scriptures said. So you're saying Jesus sinned and broke the Sabbath, to keep the Sabbath? Because Jesus kept the law perfectly. Including the Sabbath. And according to you, you have to BREAK it, to keep it. I cannot possibly imagine how that makes an ounce of sense.
He fulfilled the righteousness of the law, and died to satisfy its call for justice. Once that was done, there was no need for it any longer because he brought in a greater law that is able to give life.Raeneske said:
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death (i.e., law of Moses). Romans 8:2
The law of Moses can only condemn.
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression. Romans 4:15
... if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Galatians 3:21-22
Just for now since I'm rather busy, how many have considered WHY we have a 7-day weekly cycle? Actually, the only reason we have a seven-day weekly cycle in the first place is because God created it during the creation week in the beginning. We have the yearly cycle because of the seasons, and the monthly cycle because of the moon. But ...nothing in nature indicates a seven-day weekly cycle. The reason we all have the same seven-day weekly cycle is because God established it at Creation and it has continued to the present day. But, why seven ...? The below item is from this site: http://www.angelfire.com/az/rainbowbridge/seven.html You might find it interesting.
When man began to analyze and combine numbers, he developed other interesting symbols. He took the perfect world number FOUR and added to it the perfect divine number, THREE, and got SEVEN, the most sacred number to the Hebrews. It was earth crowned with heaven -- the four-square earth plus the divine COMPLETENESS OF GOD. So we have SEVEN expressing COMPLETENESS through union of earth with heaven. This number is used more than all other numbers in the Word of God, save the number ONE.
The number SEVEN is one of the most significant numbers in the Holy Bible.
This is a chapter from the book, Biblical Mathematics, written by Evangelist, Ed F. Vallowe.
This is a chapter from the book, Biblical Mathematics, written by Evangelist, Ed F. Vallowe.
When man began to analyze and combine numbers, he developed other interesting symbols. He took the perfect world number FOUR and added to it the perfect divine number, THREE, and got SEVEN, the most sacred number to the Hebrews. It was earth crowned with heaven -- the four-square earth plus the divine COMPLETENESS OF GOD. So we have SEVEN expressing COMPLETENESS through union of earth with heaven. This number is used more than all other numbers in the Word of God, save the number ONE.
In the Book of Revelation the number SEVEN is used throughout. There are SEVEN churches, SEVEN Spirits, SEVEN stars, SEVEN seals, SEVEN trumpets, SEVEN vials, SEVEN personages, SEVEN dooms, and SEVEN new things. SEVEN symbolizes Spiritual Perfection. All of life revolves around this number. SEVEN is used over 700 times in the Bible. It is used 54 times in the Book of Revelation.
The whole Word of God is founded upon the number SEVEN. It stands for the SEVENTH day of the Creation Week, and speaks of the Millennial Rest day. It denotes COMPLETENESS or PERFECTION.
In Leviticus 23:15-16, the number SEVEN and the Sabbath, which was the SEVENTH day, is connected with the word COMPLETE. The word COMPLETE follows after the words “SEVEN SABBATH” (Seventh day). The day following the SEVENTH sabbath there was something NEW that took place.
The word FINISHED is also connected with the number SEVEN. In Revelation 10:7 we read,
“In the days of the voice of the SEVENTH angel, when he shall begin to sound the mystery of God should be FINISHED.”
“It is DONE” is another expression found in connection with the number Seven.
“And the SEVENTH angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne saying, It is DONE.” (Revelation 16:17)
The word CREATED is used SEVEN times in connection with God’s creative work. (Genesis 1:1; Genesis 1:21; 1:27 (three times); 2:3; and 2:4). God created all things in the beginning and then took six days of restoring His creation and then rested on the SEVENTH day. (Genesis 2:1-3). He appointed SEVEN days for the week, and most, if not all advanced nations reckon time in that way: SEVEN days to the week. Few ever stop to think of why there are SEVEN days in a week. Do atheists and infidels give God and the Bible credit for it?
There are SEVEN notes in the musical scale. All other pitches are only variations of these. When the musician uses the eighth note he goes back to “do” and starts over. Man named the notes but God fixed the sounds, even as God fixed the days of the week, and man named them.
Noah took the clean beasts into the ark by SEVENS (Genesis 7:2) SEVEN days after Noah went into the ark the flood came. (Genesis 7:-10) Peter tells about the long-suffering of God waiting in the days of Noah. (I Peter 3:21) Those SEVEN days COMPLETED God’s time of waiting.
Before Aaron and his sons entered their priestly work they were consecrated SEVEN days. (Leviticus 8:31-36) Here is a picture of a life COMPLETELY or WHOLLY consecrated or dedicated to the Lord for service.
On the day of atonement the high priest sprinkled the blood upon the mercy seat SEVEN times. (Leviticus 16:14) This is a picture of the COMPLETENESS of the redemptive work of Christ.
“By his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." (Hebrews 9:12)
When Christ offered Himself that FINISHED the sacrificial offerings. They were ended. No longer must we place sacrifices upon an altar.
When Israel took the city of Jericho God told them to march around the city SEVEN times. Thus, on the SEVENTH day, when they marched around the city SEVEN times, they COMPLETED their marching. (Joshua 6:1-16)
There were SEVEN FEAST days of our Lord. (Passover, Unleavened, First-fruits, Pentecost, Atonement, Trumpets and Tabernacle). (Leviticus 23:1-44)
There were SEVEN branches on the CANDLESTICK in the Holy Place in the Tabernacle and this pictures the COMPLETE light of God for the souls of man.
Solomon was SEVEN years in building the Temple and kept the Feast for SEVEN days. Job had SEVEN sons. When his friends came to visit him they sat SEVEN days and SEVEN nights in silence, and afterward they were required to offer a Burnt Offering of SEVEN bullocks and SEVEN rams. Naaaman washed SEVEN times in the Jordan. The Saviour spoke SEVEN words from the Cross. SEVEN men of honest report were chosen to administer the alms of the church in Acts 6:1-7. There were SEVEN years of plenty and SEVEN years of famine in Egypt during the days of Joseph.
SEVEN times in the Book of Revelation blessing of the Lord are promised to His people. These are called the “BEATITUDES” of Revelation. These are found in Chapters 1:3; 14:13; 16:15; 19:9; 20:6; 22:7, 14.
There are SEVEN Dispensations -- Innocence, Conscience, Government, Patriarchal, Law, Grace, and Milleniah (sic) Age.
SEVEN times the Book of Life is mentioned in the Bible. The Book of Revelation is a Book of SEVENS. We have SEVEN churches, SEVEN seals, SEVEN Trumpets, SEVEN Personages, SEVEN vails (sic), SEVEN dooms, SEVEN new things. SEVEN SEVENS make up this Book . It is the COMPLETENESS of all things.
Jesus said to “forgive SEVENTY times SEVEN“ In other words, He is saying, “Keep on forgiving until you are complete.” Even the duration of Israel’s great punishments was based upon this law of SEVENS. Their captivity in Babylon was for SEVENTY years, ten periods of SEVENS. (Jeremiah 25:11-12; Daniel l9:2)
Life operates in a cycle of SEVENS. Changes take place in the body every SEVEN years. There are SEVEN bones in the neck, SEVEN bones in the face, SEVEN bones in the ankle, and SEVEN holes in the head. Most births are multiple of SEVENS. The hen sits three weeks (21 days); the pigeon two weeks (14 days); after having laid eggs for two weeks. Of 129 species of Mammalia (sic) the majority have a period from conception to birth of an exact number of weeks, a multiple of SEVEN.
Human physiology is constructed on a law of SEVENS. Children are born to mothers in a certain number of weeks usually 280 days, a multiple of SEVENS. Fevers and intermittent attacks of gout, ague, and similar complaints have a period of operation of SEVEN, FOURTEEN or TWENTY-ONE days knows as critical days.
All departments of nature are marked all over with mathematics. In this realm practically everything is in SEVENS. Notice next time the shape of frost when it crystallizes on the window. Notice the small snow flakes. It is wonderful how God formed everything in a pattern of SEVENS.
It would be well for the reader to always remember the SEVEN means COMPLETENESS or SPIRITUAL PERFECTION. Whenever you come to a SEVEN in the Word of God read the meaning and the message is plain.
SEVEN is found 735 times in the Bible. SEVENFOLD is mentioned 6 times and SEVENTH is found 119 times.
The SEVENTH time Noah’s name occurs is where it is said,
“Noah was a just man, and PERFECT in his generations.” (Genesis 6:9)
Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mar 2:23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
Mar 2:25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
Mar 2:26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
In all His Love
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mar 2:23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
Mar 2:25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
Mar 2:26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
In all His Love
I realize that the above scripture is commonly used by those that claim the 4th-commandment is now null and void. My problem is that I can in no way see how that scripture makes any such claim. The Sabbath was made for man. If anything Jesus is claiming that man REQUIRES the Sabbath since it was made for them. ???? Besides the Holy Spirit as some may suggest ...what am I lacking here?mjrhealth said:
The sabbath was made so man can rest not so he can run around trying to please God and making new rules that he must keep. Childlike faith is what so many christians lack. Without faith you cannot please God,everything else is man doing something to try better Jesus. You are adding too, Christ said" it is finished" all teh work is done. a gift is a gift only when you accept it without paying for it.
You are doing the " man was made for teh sabbath" bit.
In all His Love
You are doing the " man was made for teh sabbath" bit.
In all His Love
Exactly, He did to satisfy its call for justice. However, erroneous is the statement "There was no need for it any longer". The same law, the 10 Commandments (which is not called the law of Moses btw) still exists to this very day. Read the 10 Commandments, do not they all still exist to this very day (of course by many, 4 is null and void)? Of course they do, no Christian can go around murdering people, etc. Those are workers of iniquity (known sin, and contempt for THE LAW - cannot be any plainer than that), and Christ says they shall not enter into the Kingdom. As I shared there is no "instead" but "do also". Thou shalt not kill remains thou shalt not kill, but Jesus explains that to hate in your heart is as well murder. Does this mean the murder commandment is now gone? NO! Therefore it still exists to this day.ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Only those who obey can claim that Jesus satisfied it's justice. The law still exists very much so today. That is why those who do not obey the commandments of God, "faith" or no faith, are judged by it. Because all that is in that law, is the right things to do.
And again, no man was ever saved by keeping the law. Not in the past, not now, and not in the future. The just have always lived by faith. The 10 Commandments are simply summarized as 2 Commandments. The summary does not make the other 10 NULL AND VOID. They are yet another pointer towards the eternal 10 Commandments.
Only those who live by the law will be judged by the law, and as you seem so afraid of grace that can only lead to one conclusion in that you are still under it. The law is bondage it is slavery, Christ set us free, dont you want to be free.
In all His Love
The forth commandment was not nullified or invalidated by Christ, it remains as do all the commandments. But now, our only true Sabbath rest is found by faith in the Lord. The Old Testament Sabbath was based on a works covenant "a sign between God and the children of Israel" (Exodus 31:17). "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy" This is something the Israelites never did, they failed to enter into God's rest.Raeneske said:
The New Testament rest (Sabbath) is based on grace. When Jesus finished his work, he became the substance of the Sabbath, and under the new covenant, our rest is demonstrated by our belief, faith, and obedience in him. "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief" (Hebrews 4:11). The Lord is holy, not Saturdays. Our rest can only found in him everyday, and not from laying around the house on Saturdays. The observance of Saturday-only rest ended when Jesus finished his work. When the veil of the temple was rent in twain, believers gained access to that everlasting rest. He is Lord of the Sabbath, its vanity to rest in our own labors, true rest can only be found from his work and sacrifice.
So the 4th commandment is alive in Christ, we remember him and keep him holy, that is the only source of eternal rest. The Sabbath was made for man, delivered by Christ, and will be manifested in his kingdom. Our 'rest' comes from believing that, and we keep the Sabbath by faith; "For we which have believed do enter into rest" (Hebrews 4:3).
Why not keep it on the evening of Saturday like the disciples did because that was the dawn/beginning of the first day of the week being a new day at sundown. And guess what? Saturday day evening is the first day of the week on the Jewish day, but is still the seventh day on the Gentile calendar. It was good for the disciples and Paul, and that is when Mary came and found the tomb empty and it is when Jesus came and stood in the midst of the disciples for the first time after his resurrection.
Acts 20:7-9
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight{AFTER THE SABBATH UNTIL MIDNIGHT BEING THE FIRST OF THE 7 DAYS OF THE WEEK}.
8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
KJV
1 Cor 16:2
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him{TITHES GIVEN ON SATURDAY EVENING BEING THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, NOT DAYLIGHT, BUT DAY OF THE WEEK}, that there be no gatherings when I come.
KJV
Matt 28:1
28:1 In the end of the Sabbath{SATURERDAY SUNDOWN}, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
KJV
John 20:18-19
18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
19 Then the same day at evening{SATURDAY EVENING}, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
KJV
Acts 20:7-9
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight{AFTER THE SABBATH UNTIL MIDNIGHT BEING THE FIRST OF THE 7 DAYS OF THE WEEK}.
8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
KJV
1 Cor 16:2
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him{TITHES GIVEN ON SATURDAY EVENING BEING THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, NOT DAYLIGHT, BUT DAY OF THE WEEK}, that there be no gatherings when I come.
KJV
Matt 28:1
28:1 In the end of the Sabbath{SATURERDAY SUNDOWN}, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
KJV
John 20:18-19
18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
19 Then the same day at evening{SATURDAY EVENING}, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
KJV
I have no idea why the above scriptures are commonly presented as though they somehow abrogate the weekly 7th-day Sabbath. I understand that people WANT others to think that this is what they say but they don't. Surely people are not so dumb to read into those texts something that simply is not there . . .? Why is is that those who - generally - keep a weekly 'holy day' as common practice (Sunday) want SO BADLY to destroy the 7th-day commandment of the Ten Commandments ...? That said, I guess it would be quite embarrassing for Sunday-keeping churches to now make the proclamation ..."Whoops, we got it wrong all this time! From now on we'll be opening our doors on Friday evenings to commence honoring the Creation Sabbath as per commandment #4." Can you imagine the uproar? "If the Church got THIS major doctrine wrong then what else have they got wrong ...!?" The wheels of mainstrean Christianity would fall off. So, I guess I DO understand why the Sabbath MUST now be 'proven' (as best one can) to be null and void at all costs!afaithfulone4u said:
In Matthew 24:20 Jesus was forewarning His disciples about the future destruction of Jerusalem and times of trouble. Jesus said to them: "Pray that your flight (from the destruction of Jerusalem) not take place in winter or on the Sabbath." When did the destruction of Jerusalem take place? 70AD ...some 40 years after Jesus' death and resurrection! Does this scripture even remotely imply that the weekly Sabbath would by then be done away with? On the contrary! It clearly states that the 7th-day Sabbath would still remain after His death and resurrection! What a perfect opportunity for Jesus to have mentioned that the solemnity of the 7th-day Sabbath would by then be transferred to the 1st-day or Sunday. But ...He didn't! And, it wasn't!
What do you Sabbath abrogators or Sabbath-deniers have to say to the clear message BY JESUS as found in Matthew 24:20 ...? How do you get around that text? I'm sure that you'll try with some ambiguous 'Pauline' scripture ...or, alternatively, avoid responding to this question at all.
I won't respond to all of the above post but I DO appreciate your effort. You say that the observance of Saturday-only rest ended when Jesus finished His work. How can this be when Jesus Himself acknowledged that there would be a continuing 'tangible' 7th-day Sabbath at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem ...70AD? (Matthew 24:20) I realize that I haven't invented the wheel with this scripture, it's often used to counter beliefs such as those you express. However, it DOES appear to knock your belief on the head and no one seems to be able to address this quote from Jesus adequately. According to Jesus PHYSICAL (and not a spiritual, faith thing) observance of the 7th-day Sabbath would still be taking place BY HIS FOLLOWERS at least 40 years after His death and resurrection.Dan57 said:
What say?
KCID what will the keeping the sabbath do to your salvation, was not teh work that Jesus did enough, do you think you can do better than Him, because that is what it is all about. It is a stumbling block to you, it has tripped you up. If you must keep it fine, just dont expect God to pat you on the back for doing it. JEsus did all teh work, He paid teh price in FULL with His life.
In all His Love
In all His Love
Firstly, we're not deniers or abrogators. There has been a change of covenant, priesthood and law. We simply obey the law we're commanded to obey. Don't play the silly little card (like you did before) that implies since GOD never changes, he never changes his dealings with mankind. That kind of reasoning just makes you look like a disingenuous fool.KCKID said:
Secondly concerning Matthew 24:20, context is everything. Obviously, since David wasn't condemned by GOD for eating the showbread when he was fleeing from Saul, neither would GOD's people be condemned for fleeing from trouble on a sabbath. So Jesus was obviously referring to something else.
In Jesus' day, the land of Israel was populated by various peoples who did not observe the sabbath. So depending on where one would travel, finding resources to survive would have been possible. However, in Jerusalem most if not all the city's gates would have been closed and guarded on the sabbath, and people were forbidden to carry a load through the gates. That scenario would have created a tremendous impediment to travel, and hazarded the lives of any fleeing Jerusalem, especially if great numbers were fleeing at once; which is apparently what happened when Christians fled Jerusalem en masse during the Roman war on Jerusalem. And we can safely assume, I think, based on their success, that their flight did not occur on a sabbath. Warning issued, warning observed, problem avoided.
The discontinuance of the sabbath as a legal requirement by GOD ended at the cross, but unbelievers in Jerusalem still considered it the law. Keeping the sabbath as a legal requirement and observation of it as a cultural norm are two very different things.KCKID said:
I have NOT YET met any Sabbath-keepers that consider keeping the Sabbath as a 'stumbling block'. In fact, I have absolutely no idea how you can claim allegiance to God and yet find obedience in simply honoring one day a week to be some kind of yoke around a person's neck. People LOVE their Sabbath! They keep it because they want to! Honestly, while I realize that YOU believe that you have it all together, it makes no sense at all to me that you find obedience - WHOEVER it be to - as some kind of a dirty word.mjrhealth said:
No it wasn't, yes it was, no it wasn't, yes it was, not it wasn't, yes it was, no it wasn't, yes it was,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
:wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
:wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
Firstly, the method of responding to parts of a post, i.e. addressing specific words, sentences, paragraphs, etc. on the forum appears to be impossible. Am I doing something wrong or is this the way it is?ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Anyway ...:
CRFTD, you are one rather nasty person and I'd prefer not to debate this topic with you at all if that's possible. Your calling me a disingenuous fool is insulting and could be - if I allowed it to be - most hurtful. In any event, I'm not deserving of your nastiness. What makes it heaps worse is that it's coming from a professed Christian. Anyway, to the business at hand . . .
1. You certainly appear to be a Sabbath abrogator/denier and you probably need to wear the shoe that fits. The removal of the 4th-commandment was NEVER included in a change of covenant, priesthood, law or any other such thing. This sounds remarkably familiar, however. Sunday-keeping (?) churches use such as a pat response to those who question why people keep Sunday instead of the Sabbath. You say that you simply obey the law that you were commanded to obey. What law is that? So far, you haven't responded to any of my previous questions with anything other than "you're a fool". Any chance of your telling me what law it is that you're commanded to obey? I thought you said that, under the new covenant, we're no longer bound by laws ...? You're confusing me. By the way, what silly card am I playing by saying that God DOES change even though Christians persistently say that He doesn't? Does God change or doesn't He? Seems to me that He does according to my Bible!
2. I asked you about Matthew 24:20 and all you can say is that context is everything. What does that mean in THIS case? What IS the context other than a very clear statement from Jesus that THE SABBATH WILL STILL BE OBSERVED BY THE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS IN 70AD! But, but ...didn't you say that the new covenant that included the abolition of the 7th-day Sabbath came into force at the cross . . .??? Am "I" the fool" here? The point I was/am making is not that the people would be condemned for fleeing from trouble on the Sabbath (you even used the word "Sabbath"!) but that the people would STILL be honoring the Sabbath at the time of the fall of Jerusalem!
3. Yes, you ARE correct in your summation of what occurred in 70AD; however, your assumption - based no doubt on your erroneous church-teaching - that the disciples of Jesus had by then abandoned their Sabbath-keeping is not substantiated anywhere in the Bible. It is purely mainstream Christian fiction! The lengths that people will go to defend the RCC 'command' for Protestantism to replace the Sabbath with Sunday is unbelievable!
4. Once again, a misunderstanding of this entire argument. Keeping the 7th-day Sabbath is no more keeping the law than is not murdering, not stealing, not committing adultery, etc. It's about OBEDIENCE to God's commands ...NOT an act of legalism. The Sabbath is to be a delight (Isaiah 58:13) and not a burden. Does that sound like a law?
Well, there ya go ...you just pretty well described what a debate is and - after all - this IS a debate section of the forum. No one needs to participate if they don't want to.Axehead said:
You are such a hypocrite. You've been nothing but demeaning, condescending and abusive to people on this thread, and you're trying to call me out? I'm merely confronting your manipulative methods.KCKID said:
The Israelites did fail to enter into that rest, but not all of them did. The rest spoken of in this passage, is a rest to come. It is spoken of as a Sabbath of rest. This same Sabbath of rest was the rest that the Israelites were supposed to enter into. In other words, this is not referring to the Seventh Day Sabbath Rest at all. It is the rest that believers shall enter into when Christ comes. That is why it is said let us labour therefore to enter into that rest. This is not a rest that is being kept now, but a rest that is to be kept in the future.Dan57 said:
I agree that the Lord is holy, but the seventh day was set apart for holy use. In Genesis, no less. And the observance of "Saturday-only" rest is in no wise abrogated, any more than the observance of any of the other 10 Commandments. Your post seem to lead in the direction that believers in the Jewish age never found rest, except for on the Sabbath Day. This is not Biblical. Oft times, it is spoken that God brings peace to their weary souls, that He is their protector from their enemies, that He clears from them the burden of sin.
The reason the Sabbath Day is kept, is found within the Sabbath Commandment. We rest, because God did in Creation Week. There is nothing that denotes the 7th Day Sabbath pointing to the cross in the entire Bible. The only Biblical connection you will find, is the connection to Creation week. God rested, for the benefit of mankind (not just for the Jews, an only for before the cross), that mankind may emulate their Creator. It is a sign between God and us, that this is the LORD which Sanctifies us.
It is no debate, it is about truth and lie, you dont " debate" the truth you either believe it or the lie, you are either in the light or in darkness.
If you want to keep the sabbath , than do, but dont make it a stumbling block to others.
In all His Love
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