Exactly! Anyone who finds themself in Hell is not getting out again with the exception of dreams and near death experiences.
Why Do Nice People Go To Hell ?
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Actually your mistaken, that might be what your translation of the scriptures say but the scriptures say something very contrary. But your entitled to your opinion.
Your translation is errant because it also says the the just punishment for sin is death, not unending torment, so as one who can think with common sense it is very obvious that the translation is errant and conflicting. Then there's the bogus picture it paints of God the Father, who loves His enemies with unending torment. So if you want to be like Him you must give your enemies the same treatment.LOL.
Then there's the problem of double jeopardy, either God already punished Christ for the world's sin or He didn't if He did indeed punish Christ for everyone's sin and then punishes some but not all again for the same sin then He would be a corrupt judge.
But it does take a little common sense and honesty to break free from denial. :lol:
Don't believe I have ever read about those exceptions in the scriptures, they must be in another book or maybe the Quran. :lol:
Do the word study I'm sure it will be a blessing.
My husband has been struggling with the concept of hell. How can it be fair to punish eternally those whose sins are finite (only for a lifetime)? How can a good and loving God essentially torture those people for ever (being burnt eternally)?
Well, he found a peace after doing a lot of reading, and I'll share his conclusions...I've heard similar ideas, but not to this extent...I'm still trying to decide if he's on the money, or a heretic!!!!
He started his conclusions by deciding that if darkness is the absence of light, then evil is just the absence of anything good, just or right. God, not just having those 'good' attributes, IS them, therefore nothing bad or in-just or evil can come from Him. So the usual human complaints of "that's not fair" or "if He is a truly loving God then...", etc, cannot be held to, because holding God, who is clearly not human and everything 'not evil', to them is just foolishness.
He then proceeded to define his concept of hell. What would it do to a sinful person, one who is not covered in the righteousness of Christ, to stand before such a perfect and holy presence? Painful, probably. And all the while knowing that they were wrong, that Jesus was the way. Every time they again sinned (if that's possible, but supposing it is, since if they were, even after death, sin free, then we could assume they would be no different to the redeemed) they would be hit anew with God's goodness and justness, knowing all the time that they will never be welcomed to Him. So, my husband concludes that that is hell...eternal knowledge and an in your face confrontation of their own sins in front of God. Imagine, he says, the guilt we sometimes feel....times by a billion, forever. Bad enough, but completely justified, and not torture...after all, the kind of torture we humans equate with the word is nothing but evil, and our God cannot have anything to do with evil.
This idea, says my husband, doesn't go against scripture. It fits the image Jesus gave of a bird flying briefly through a warm, light filled banquet hall, then back out into the darkness....these unsaved people will forever know what they are missing out on. It fits the image of 'burning in torment, where the worm will eat forever'...which is also a pretty accurate image of being consumed with regret and guilt for all time, knowing their sin is wrong, but unable to stop.
So, what do you all think? Bible verses and opinions welcome!
Well, he found a peace after doing a lot of reading, and I'll share his conclusions...I've heard similar ideas, but not to this extent...I'm still trying to decide if he's on the money, or a heretic!!!!
He started his conclusions by deciding that if darkness is the absence of light, then evil is just the absence of anything good, just or right. God, not just having those 'good' attributes, IS them, therefore nothing bad or in-just or evil can come from Him. So the usual human complaints of "that's not fair" or "if He is a truly loving God then...", etc, cannot be held to, because holding God, who is clearly not human and everything 'not evil', to them is just foolishness.
He then proceeded to define his concept of hell. What would it do to a sinful person, one who is not covered in the righteousness of Christ, to stand before such a perfect and holy presence? Painful, probably. And all the while knowing that they were wrong, that Jesus was the way. Every time they again sinned (if that's possible, but supposing it is, since if they were, even after death, sin free, then we could assume they would be no different to the redeemed) they would be hit anew with God's goodness and justness, knowing all the time that they will never be welcomed to Him. So, my husband concludes that that is hell...eternal knowledge and an in your face confrontation of their own sins in front of God. Imagine, he says, the guilt we sometimes feel....times by a billion, forever. Bad enough, but completely justified, and not torture...after all, the kind of torture we humans equate with the word is nothing but evil, and our God cannot have anything to do with evil.
This idea, says my husband, doesn't go against scripture. It fits the image Jesus gave of a bird flying briefly through a warm, light filled banquet hall, then back out into the darkness....these unsaved people will forever know what they are missing out on. It fits the image of 'burning in torment, where the worm will eat forever'...which is also a pretty accurate image of being consumed with regret and guilt for all time, knowing their sin is wrong, but unable to stop.
So, what do you all think? Bible verses and opinions welcome!
Are the fires of Hell more like a loss of grace and looking at your time as wasted in folly due to a lack of love.
Some people nearing their death are suddenly confronted with there miss guided life and wish they had done it differently, i think that is something like a burning pain talked about being Hell.
Before Christ comes back, the world will be put through the purging fires. i think.
Is the fire a fire as in a flame burning wood, i think not. but i think it's much like that on ones Soul.
Some people nearing their death are suddenly confronted with there miss guided life and wish they had done it differently, i think that is something like a burning pain talked about being Hell.
Before Christ comes back, the world will be put through the purging fires. i think.
Is the fire a fire as in a flame burning wood, i think not. but i think it's much like that on ones Soul.
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Revelation 20:15
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Matthew 10:28
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell".
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I think the more merciful our understanding of the doctrine of Hell is, the closer to reality it is.
Prentis
New Member
Amen!
I see alot of christians judging themselves to be on the inside and everyone else to be on the outside. But this is not wise!
[sup]12[/sup]For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? [sup]13[/sup]But them that are without God judgeth.
We have plenty to think of about our own walk, and making our own calling and election sure... Maybe we should stop pointing the fingers... Cause they're pointing right back at us!
25 Its gates will never be closed at the end of day because there is no night there.26 And all the nations will bring their glory and honor into the city.27 Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
Rev 21:25-27 (NLT)
The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” Let anyone who hears this say, “Come.” Let anyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who desires drink freely from the water of life.
Rev 22:17 (NLT)
My topic was not to judge anyone...I would never do that. It was simply a question but thank you for your reply.
Good attitude.
29 If the dead will not be raised, what point is there in people being baptized for those who are dead? Why do it unless the dead will someday rise again?
1 Cor 15:29 (NLT)
Prentis
New Member
The reply was not to you specifically... I was thinking of a general thought that is rampant in the church.
I think this is awesome. We tend to hold firm to our doctrines, which can be a good thing in a way...we all tend to think of our interpretations of scripture to be the true one! It's natural really, we would hardly be following and putting our faith in an interpretation that we perceive as erroneous!
But just because we follow this conviction of beliefs, does not mean that we are right in everything! Whenever we 'see' something in someone that we think is not quite ok, the very first question we need be asking is...is that in my life in any way, shape or form? We need to be praying for the Holy Spirit to reveal and redeem any such behaviours....otherwise it's just plank, speck time!
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Agreed. Remember, doctrine doesn't save - not even doctrine that is shouted by the loudest voices.
Anyone who thinks I would read the Quaran is definately not in touch with reality.
People do have near death experiences and find themself in Hell, just look at the testimonies on youtube if you don't believe me and people do dream of being in Hell and sometiems they leave their body and are shown Hell. This has happened to loads of people including St Patrick
People do have near death experiences and find themself in Hell, just look at the testimonies on youtube if you don't believe me and people do dream of being in Hell and sometiems they leave their body and are shown Hell. This has happened to loads of people including St Patrick
Yes indeed God's Word, Jesus saves, while the scriptures do not give life they all point to the one who does.
I am not arguing that some do but if that be true than "no second chances once in hell" cannot be true. Like I said it just takes a little common sense to see the ludicrousness of unending torment.
justaname
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Salvation is through our faith in our Lord Jesus Christ alone, not by works.
As for the torment thing, to be specific it is the devil, false prophet, and beast that are tormented day and night for ever. Rev 20:10
Those found not written in the book of life are also thrown into the lake of fire, but no mention of finality or torment for those is given. Rev 20:15
I think it also relevant that there is more than one book; we have the book of life, the Lambs book of life, and another mention of books.
Although no mention of finality or torment is mentioned, I caution people to understand that the second death is not something to be desired, nor does it mean it is not final. Remember our Lords prayer, in particular the portion of deliverance from evil. Also the parable of the wheat and tares.
I am not completely certain, but I can not recall scripturally anyone who dies the second death having another chance of life. In fact the parable of the rich man is one that speaks of finality. Luke 16:19-31
From John 6:45 we understand all are taught of God.
To not accept God through faith is to reject God. To reject God is to not believe or trust God's word, which is what Eve was guilty of in the garden. Those who do not trust God will be separated from those who do trust God.
As for the torment thing, to be specific it is the devil, false prophet, and beast that are tormented day and night for ever. Rev 20:10
Those found not written in the book of life are also thrown into the lake of fire, but no mention of finality or torment for those is given. Rev 20:15
I think it also relevant that there is more than one book; we have the book of life, the Lambs book of life, and another mention of books.
Although no mention of finality or torment is mentioned, I caution people to understand that the second death is not something to be desired, nor does it mean it is not final. Remember our Lords prayer, in particular the portion of deliverance from evil. Also the parable of the wheat and tares.
I am not completely certain, but I can not recall scripturally anyone who dies the second death having another chance of life. In fact the parable of the rich man is one that speaks of finality. Luke 16:19-31
From John 6:45 we understand all are taught of God.
To not accept God through faith is to reject God. To reject God is to not believe or trust God's word, which is what Eve was guilty of in the garden. Those who do not trust God will be separated from those who do trust God.
Nice people will be in Hell, just as ornery, crotchety, black hatted Calvinists will be in Heaven. We are not judged by our actions but our position in Christ.
It's nice to be nice, but it's better to be saved.
It's nice to be nice, but it's better to be saved.
Jiggyfly
More ludircouse is the idea of me reading a Qu'ran.
However, Hell is truly forever, this is scriptural and has been Church doctrine for two thousand years and is the accepted norm for Catholics and Protestants alike.
More ludircouse is the idea of me reading a Qu'ran.
However, Hell is truly forever, this is scriptural and has been Church doctrine for two thousand years and is the accepted norm for Catholics and Protestants alike.
Again your mistaken the majority of the early church taught universal reconciliation the first 3 centuries. It's all there in the history books.
You really should do the word study so you will know for yourself what the scriptures say rather than accepting a corrupted translation opinion.
You say it's more ludicrous but you never posted any scripture to support your concept.
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