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Featured Why do we need priests?

Discussion in 'The Church Forum' started by Pearl, Aug 31, 2019.

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  1. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    Amen and beautifully said.
     
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  2. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I am not either a Protestant or a Catholic. I am a Bible believing Christian who doesn't support murder for any reason.
     
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  3. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    When I attended a Catholic service and participated in the Eucharist, it still tasted like the wafer to me. It didn't taste like meat of any kind.

    So how come, anyone can actually eat Jesus' body and drink His blood, when He is in heaven at the throne of God, and will not return to the earth until He comes again. Land sakes! If the body of Jesus has been eaten in all the Catholic Masses for hundreds of years, there would be nothing of Jesus left. He would have been totally consumed many times over!

    Do you think that He was speaking literally when He said, "This is my body?" to the disciples at the last supper? Did Jesus cut a bit off Himself and hand it around to them? Or did he use the bread and wine as symbols of His body and blood, and that we are to use those symbols to remember His death until He comes?

    I wonder if some people turn their logical brains off when they enter a church service?
     
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  4. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, the Catholic church is copying the Levitical priests who were mediators between the people and God. They are also copying the pagan priests who were mediators between the people and their pagan gods.

    When Jesus ascended to heaven to intercede for believers, He because our great High Priest, the sole mediator between God and man. This abolished all priesthoods. Therefore, using a priest is denying that Jesus is our sole mediator between God and man, and if Jesus in denied in this way, He is no longer effective for those who use priests to mediate between them and God. And because Jesus is the sole "parachute" for salvation and salvation can come by no other, then those who use priests put their own salvation at risk.

    Ministers of the gospel are there to preach the gospel and encourage the unsaved to receive Christ as Saviour, and to teach the Scriptures and disciple those to whom he is responsible in his church. He is not there to stand between the members and Christ, but to stand with them as they approach Christ for themselves.

    As for me, I confess my sins to the only Person who can forgive them - God alone. Even the Pharisees said that only God can forgive sins. So if one goes to a priest confessing sin and gaining the priest's absolution for them, there is no guarantee that although they may be forgiven as far as the Catholic church is concerned, but not from God Himself.
     
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  5. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant.
     
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  6. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    I think that a lot of this is kept from the rank and file RCC members.
     
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  7. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    Note: I'm not Catholic. I have no personal dog in this.

    But I don't think it's a good idea to think that Catholic* persons are dumb, or being deceived, or not studied, and that any outsider knows their faith and beliefs better than a Catholic* does.

    *Same goes if you were to put any other person/faith here.
     
  8. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    Did I say that the rank and file RCC members were dumb? Conversely, many RCC members are the most intelligent people in the world!

    But anyone, no matter how intelligent they are, will not know facts if the information is withheld from them.

    Tell me all you know about the intricacies of rocket science, or how a computer chip can cause this writing to appear on your computer screen. By your definition, if you can't tell me, then you are dumb! Is that the case? No? Then I have proved my point.
     
  9. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    It's a bad idea to think that an outsider knows more about X faith than somebody who actively lives & studies practices that faith.
     
  10. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure whether you got my point about lack of supplied information does not make a person dumb, just uninformed. There is a major difference.
     
  11. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    Alternatively: they have seen that information and done an investigation on it, reaching their own conclusions, which may differ from another persons (particularly an outsider).
    In my experience that's most frequently the case versus real lack of information (is is the 21st century).
     
  12. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    True. But to get back to my actual point: My wife was brought up and educated Catholic, and there are many of the central doctrines of the RCC that she knows nothing about. I know that because I asked her for information from a RCC perspective while I was doing my M.Div paper in RCC theology. Most of the time she could answer my questions, which surprised me because I would have thought that they would be common knowledge among the rank and file parishioners. Now, I would get beaten over the head with the hoover pipe if I told her that she was dumb because she couldn't answer my questions! :)
     
  13. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    It's a fact that some folks aren't well studied (in fact, such people exist in all groups). But i would never make generalization about all.
     
  14. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    True again. Then would you expect every rank and file church member to have a degree in theology? When I did my degree in divinity after 50 years being a believer, widely read in Christian literature, I was amazed at what I didn't know! So what about people who have attended church all their lives and never had a wide reading of Christian literature, or done a theology degree? How much do you think they would know...or wouldn't know?
     
  15. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    Deeply studying what you yourself believe is something always to be applauded. Deepening our reasoning, love, and faith are fantastic.

    My objection comes in when person A tries to tell person B that they know more about B than B does. Even if A has a degree in theology and B does not.
     
  16. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    I don't do that. All I say is what I believe. All my degree has accomplished is that I know just a little more than what I did before, so my very thin slice of the knowledge pie just got a little bigger but still is a very small fraction of what can be known. It is just that others have their slice of knowledge from a different part of the pie than mine.
     
  17. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]Does his faith really have to be as strong as the disciples? According to Jesus, I don't need much to 'move mountains'.

    So by what unit of measurement are you gauging someones faith, truly?
     
  18. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    Faith is faith. We either have it or we don't. There can be weak or strong faith depending on how much trust we have in God's promises in the Bible.

    Faith is not a force in itself. There is a teaching where if a person believes hard enough, they will get what they are wanting. This is witchcraft, and Hindu mind control with the belief that we can achieve objectives by the power of our minds. This is the basis of Norman Vincent Peale's "The Power Of Positive Thinking". The problem with that, along with Napoleon Hill's "Think And Grow Rich" teaching is that both acknowledge that they got their material from having demonic spirits dictate it to them. And their theories actually work, because they are the result of occult supernatural power. But according to the Bible, these things are witchcraft and therefore is an abomination to God.

    We don't receive anything from God through our own mind power. We receive things according to God's will by requesting them from Him and then waiting with faith and patience until He gives them to us.

    So, a strong faith is putting our full trust in the literal promises of God in the Bible that pertain to us. Weak faith is having a partial trust in the promises and have a hope that God might honour them, but one is not quite sure, and so has times of anxiety and doubt. But strong or weak, it is still genuine faith, and Jesus said that He will not quench the smoking flax (the First Century type of wick that was put into the oil lamps) where the flame had dimiished to just a small spark of life in it. So just a small spark of faith in a believer is still a sign of spiritual life, that the Holy Spirit can fan into a flame with the "petrol" of God's written and preached Word.
     
  19. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    Yet we have people here questioning others faith on its "strength" as if it can really be measured.

    I doubt any of that crap even works. I don't even take it seriously enough to claim its witchcraft. Its all just a joke to me.

    People assume that God even has to honor a request by default of you being a "believer". Where does it say he actually has to make it happen? What kind of "requests" are we referring to anyway? I believe God can make up his own mind on what should be done.
     
  20. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    Very true!
    What does the Scripture say:
    "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we already possess what we have asked of Him" (1 John 5:14-15).

    The challenge for us is to come to a certain knowledge that what we are asking for is actually God's will for us. This is in line with the Scripture:
    "Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is" (Ephesians 5:17).

    When we realise that we don't actually have a right to receive anything from the Lord except divine judgment and hell, then we adopt a more humble approach to God and are more likely to surrender ourselves to Him, and wait with faith and patience for what He has to give out from His mercy and grace.

    There are some who pray for stuff, and get their noses out of joint with God because they don't get what they pray for - as if they have the right for God to be their servant, or some kind of vending machine to act according to their will. How many times have I heard in Charismatic circles the number of people who have prayed for healing from a sickness or disability and when it doesn't come when they want it to come they moan about "why haven't I received my healing, as if they have a right to it? But what does the Holy Spirit through Moses say about that?
    "He said, "If you listen carefully to the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you." (Exodus 15:16).
    These people expect God to heal them, but they forget the first part of the verse about listening carefully to the Lord and doing what is right in His eyes (not just their own), and to pay attention to His commands and keep all His decrees.
     
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