Why do we need priests?

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marksman

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From post #782 - YOU said:
"A good teacher will ALWAYS teach in such a fashion that the student knows what you want them to know."

We ALL know that this is false. You can be the best teacher in the world and have a bad student who won't learn.
So much for this being a "figment of my imagination" . . .

So 2.6 million Christian worldwide know that do they? How do you know that? Have you surveyed them and asked them what they know. if you haven't then you have proved yourself to be a liar and a specialist in red herrings.
 

marksman

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Wouldn't that be what we call a miracle? I believe in miracles. Do you? :)

At the Last Supper how did He make the bread/wine he was holding in his hand his body/blood? Do you not believe His statement was true? Was it a miracle?

Curious Mary

I believe what the bible says is true in the original language. Unfortunately what it says in the original isn't always in the English versions and what the original scripture says is often explained away to fit denominational doctrine. The Catholics are especially good at this. For example where does it say in scripture you can buy your salvation by buying indulgences?
 

marksman

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Asking if your faith is not as strong as the NT Christians is "offensive"??? o_O

Scripture and historical Christian writings make it clear that the NT Christians BELIEVED and had FAITH in the teaching that communion was in FACT His body and blood just like He said it was at the Last Supper and Paul later affirmed in Corinthians when he asked RETORICALLY The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

OBVIOUSLY their faith was stronger than yours because they, and the Catholic Church, BELIEVE and PRACTICE what Jesus and Paul said/taught....You don't. :(

Do you not take communion anymore since you left The Church?

First, I haven't left the church because I am a member of the body of Christ so it is not possible to leave "the church."

Second, having spent two years studying the New Testament Church for a Ph.D. which included reading about 60 books on the subject, nowhere does it say that the believers believed what Jesus said to be a literal translation. it only means that if you take your cues from denominational teaching, which I don't but which you obviously do.

Third, rhetorical means that it is not really how it was. rhetorical. : of, relating to, or concerned with the art of speaking or writing formally and effectively especially as a way to persuade or influence people. of a question
 

marksman

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You have me totally confused. I would like to clarify:

You told me I was "Wrong" when I said (in summary) that the teaching/practice of wine/bread turning into blood/body, known as the Real Presence, has been taught for 2,000 years. Your "evidence" of me being wrong was that "The reformation began with Martin Luther's 95 theses." You then said that means the teaching "is approx 500 years old not 2,000."

I am trying to figure out if you believe the Real Presence teaching started with Luther and not 2,000 years ago? Or are we just miscommunicating with each other?

Respectfully Mary

Yes, we are in your hast to prove me wrong and prove you right. I read the other day that the catholic way of doing things (mass) did not happen until 246 AD so it did not start 2,000 years ago. The New Testament church started with the breaking of bread which means having a meal together.

If you had studied the background to the scriptures and the New Testament Church you would know this. As I said I have read about 60 books on the subject so I think that I know what I am talking about.
 
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marksman

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It's not just Catholics who have priests. They have them in every denomination. Some are called vicars, bishops, deans; then you have ministers etc. all of whom belong to a hierarchy of clergy that is nowhere to be found in the bible. When we ask forgiveness we don't need to do it through a clergyman as we have direct access to God who is the only one who can forgive us. When we have something that needs prayer - which is often - we don't need a clergyman to bring our problem before God - we can do it ourselves but it is good to know that we have prayer support. When we partake of bread and wine we don't need ordained clergy to minister them to us we can take turns doing the honours. Same with baptism, we don't need any kind of priest as we are able to perform this joyous task ourselves. If the Holy Spirit is being followed in your fellowship of believers then we don't clergy to perform rituals because we ourselves are a royal priesthood.

Your post rings a bell. I have just watched a three-part series on abuse of children in the Catholic Church by priests. Although the focus was on the abuse of children, an underlying theme was the power and authority of the priests. As was said more than once, you don't question what a priest does.

Some of the abused children were abused before reaching their teenage years and when they were abused they said nothing because they thought it was right because the priest was doing the abusing. It also showed how the church covered it up and was, in fact, encouraging the abuse. I beleive now with all my heart that the Catholic Church (sic) is not a church, it is a criminal organization.

I know now why the confessional is sacred and is never revealed. It increases the power of the priest. It has nothing at all to do with confidentiality. Once the person has confessed, the priest has a hold over them. It is obvious the priest knows who the person is by the voice if they attend the church and they can see the person through the lattice.
 

Joseph77

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I know now why the confessional is sacred and is never revealed. It increases the power of the priest. It has nothing at all to do with confidentiality. Once the person has confessed, the priest has a hold over them. It is obvious the priest knows who the person is by the voice if they attend the church and they can see the person through the lattice.
Many priests who got saved, and thus were kicked out of that group, have exposed the abomination of the confessional (and of the mass),
throughout history.
Anyone who God has granted understanding of His Word to, with a pure heart and cleansed mind, is repulsed by the wickednesses perpetrated by the spiritual fornicators and abusers of women and children, acting out as if <self>righteous in long robes seeking attention , as in costumes of priests.
 
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Joseph77

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It also showed how the church covered it up and was, in fact, encouraging the abuse. I beleive now with all my heart that the Catholic Church (sic) is not a church, it is a criminal organization.
That is mild, compared with what Jesus calls it. .... the lake of fire , the mouth of hades that was designed for the devil and his rebellious angels, was enlarged as the perpetrators and abuses increased year after year, to accommodate them.
 
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Joseph77

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it is not possible to prove you wrong because you believe you are always right and everyone else is wrong. you have pat answers for everything so your mind is a closed door.
Those in a cult like that do not believe they alone are always right - rather everyone in thier cult is right as long as they agree. They are told what to believe by the one above them, and risk being kicked out if they ever seek the truth, so most never seek the truth. Anyway, they believe thier system is always right, and are stuck in it, because it cannot be corrected.
 

Marymog

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I believe what the bible says is true in the original language. Unfortunately what it says in the original isn't always in the English versions and what the original scripture says is often explained away to fit denominational doctrine. The Catholics are especially good at this. For example where does it say in scripture you can buy your salvation by buying indulgences?
Hold on....are you saying that Jesus never said “This IS my body/blood...” at the Last Supper? We have a translation error? What is your evidence
 

Marymog

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First, I haven't left the church because I am a member of the body of Christ so it is not possible to leave "the church."
I apologize. I thought you said you were once a member of the Catholic Church.
 

Marymog

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Second, having spent two years studying the New Testament Church for a Ph.D. which included reading about 60 books on the subject, nowhere does it say that the believers believed what Jesus said to be a literal translation. it only means that if you take your cues from denominational teaching, which I don't but which you obviously do.
Paul took it literally

So did the 1st century Christians according to first century writings sooooo I don’t think you read the right 60 books.....;) Or you are lying to me
 
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marksman

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Paul took it literally

So did the 1st century Christians according to first century writings sooooo I don’t think you read the right 60 books.....;) Or you are lying to me

Quite a supercilious remark if you don't mind me saying so. Having made the claim, I would like you to prove I read the wrong books, which is going to be very difficult for you as you don't know what books I read.
 

Marymog

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Quite a supercilious remark if you don't mind me saying so. Having made the claim, I would like you to prove I read the wrong books, which is going to be very difficult for you as you don't know what books I read.
Good point. I don’t know what books you have read. I assumed you read the only ones available....at least the ones that I am aware of.

I have read The Didache, Ignatius, Justin Martyr and Irenaeus on the matter at hand (The Real Presence). They all supported it.

What “books” or writings from the 1st or 2nd century did I miss that you read?

Willing to learn....Mary
 
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