Why does God give people over to a reprobate mind?

[bbyrd009]

The point is why would Jesus promise to come back in that day but never show up?

maybe bc as Christ, Spirit, He never left?

 

[MatthewG]

Well one proof Jesus has not yet returned is the devil is still free to roam about causing evil troubles.
The world is still very evil and the 20th century was the bloodiest century in the history of the world.
Satan is not yet bound in the abyss.

1 Peter 5
8 Be [c]sober, be [d]vigilant; [e]because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. 10 But [f]may the God of all grace, who called [g]us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, [h]perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. 11 To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Ephesians 2
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

People are still having the devil working in them today, if Christ had returned, then the devil would be gone, as when Christ returns HE destroys the devil ability to work.

2 Thess 2
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

I believe darkness still exist and spirit of the world like hatred, greed, lust, and such. The devil I don’t believe is still around though he gets a lot of credit for still being here, even though he has been long defeated and done away with.

ok well when you find “Jesus hupo strepho” one single time just let me know k
English irdc so much

what?

Yah was available even after Adam and Eve sinned iow

Not as close as they were, having left the presence of God. Eve still praised God while Adam remained silent.

 

[MatthewG]

maybe bc as Christ, Spirit, He never left?

Well he was promised to come back and be seen by those in the first century according to bible itself… so, he would have been physically seen by those watching and waiting for him to return which they were changed in the twinkling of the eye.

 

[Scott Downey]

Well he was promised to come back and be seen by those in the first century according to bible itself… so, he would have been physically seen by those watching and waiting for him to return which they were changed in the twinkling of the eye.

Here is another proof Christ has not returned yet.
Paul tells this GREEK church to wait for His Son from heaven.
Jesus who delivers us from the coming wrath of God, which will be poured out on the entire earth.
Greece is nowhere near Jerusalem.
The whole earth is going to be destroyed, all it's cities, not just Jerusalem


1 Thessalonians 1

Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,

To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace [a]from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers, 3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father, 4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God. 5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.

6 And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit, 7 so that you became examples to all in Macedonia and Achaia who believe. 8 For from you the word of the Lord has sounded forth, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place. Your faith toward God has gone out, so that we do not need to say anything. 9 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Isaiah 24 has not yet happened to the earth. When Christ returns there is a very thorough destruction of the entire world.

1 Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste,
Distorts its surface
And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
2 And it shall be:
As with the people, so with the priest;
As with the servant, so with his master;
As with the maid, so with her mistress;
As with the buyer, so with the seller;
As with the lender, so with the borrower;
As with the creditor, so with the debtor.
3 The land shall be entirely emptied and utterly plundered,
For the Lord has spoken this word.
4 The earth mourns and fades away,
The world languishes and fades away;
The haughty[a] people of the earth languish.
5 The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants,
Because they have transgressed the laws,
Changed the ordinance,
Broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore the curse has devoured the earth,
And those who dwell in it are [b]desolate.
Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned,
And few men are left.
7 The new wine fails, the vine languishes,
All the merry-hearted sigh.
8 The mirth of the tambourine ceases,
The noise of the jubilant ends,
The joy of the harp ceases.
9 They shall not drink wine with a song;
Strong drink is bitter to those who drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down;
Every house is shut up, so that none may go in.
11 There is a cry for wine in the streets,
All joy is darkened,
The mirth of the land is gone.
12 In the city desolation is left,
And the gate is stricken with destruction.
13 When it shall be thus in the midst of the land among the people,
It shall be like the shaking of an olive tree,
Like the gleaning of grapes when the vintage is done.
14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing;
For the majesty of the Lord
They shall cry aloud from the sea.
15 Therefore glorify the Lord in the dawning light,
The name of the Lord God of Israel in the coastlands of the sea.
16 From the ends of the earth we have heard songs:
“Glory to the righteous!”
But I said, [c]“I am ruined, ruined!
Woe to me!
The treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously,
Indeed, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.”
17 Fear and the pit and the snare
Are upon you, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 And it shall be
That he who flees from the noise of the fear
Shall fall into the pit,
And he who comes up from the midst of the pit
Shall be [d]caught in the snare;
For the windows from on high are open,
And the foundations of the earth are shaken.
19 The earth is violently broken,
The earth is split open,
The earth is shaken exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel[e] to and fro like a drunkard,
And shall totter like a hut;
Its transgression shall be heavy upon it,
And it will fall, and not rise again.
21 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the [f]pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
23 Then the moon will be disgraced
And the sun ashamed;
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.


Luke 17 has not yet happened to the earth. Jesus refers to His second coming like the of Noah, and that time of the flood also destroyed the entire world. verse 24, when Christ returns EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM, this did not happen when Jerusalem was destroyed

Revelation 1 has not happened yet
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, [d]the Beginning and the End,” says the [e]Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”


22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, [h]‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

 

[Scott Downey]

Luke 21, that Day of the Lord, when He returns comes as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth, (not just the city of Jerusalem) A snare is a trap, and this one catches up all the wicked on the earth and the angels then cast them into hell.

34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with [h]carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may [i]be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

At that time, the kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of the Lord and of His Christ
And the meek shall inherit the earth, this has not happened yet.

Matthew 13
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

None of these verses have happened yet.

Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth.

1. Psalm 37:11
   But the meek shall inherit the earth, And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Isaiah 11:4
   But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, And decide with equity for the meekof the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Zephaniah 2:3
   Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth, Who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden In the day of the Lord’s anger.

 

[Scott Downey]

These verses have not happened yet, look at v27

27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.

The meek have not yet inherited the earth.

Daniel 7
23 “Thus he said:

‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute[j] the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.
26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
28 “This is the end of the [k]account. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly troubled me, and my countenance changed; but I kept the matter in my heart.”

 

[MatthewG]

Wow Scott you gave me a lot to read, perhaps others will read it.

It’s proof that those written at Thessalonica were told about what was gonna to happen…

So I don’t see it as proof that Jesus wasn’t going to… return

 

[MatthewG]

Again the question is this @Scott Downey why would Jesus talk about his return and the apostles too, which would be the great and dreadful day of the Lord…

Why would Jesus promise to come back then not?

Either he did or didn’t and it’s up for the individual to be lead by the spirit to the truth.

 

[bbyrd009]

but see, He never promised to “come back” (hupo strepho), not one single time, in the whole NT, not anywhere
oops

The Wrath had to come down on someone for their disobedience

Yah was available even after Adam and Eve sinned iow

Not as close as they were, having left the presence of God. Eve still praised God while Adam remained silent.

yikes, i guess now editing is gonna get hard here…
the point was to maybe rethink all this “wrath” that Yah is supposedly so set on

 

[bbyrd009]

Well he was promised to come back and be seen by those in the first century according to bible itself… so, he would have been physically seen by those watching and waiting for him to return which they were changed in the twinkling of the eye.

wadr there is no “come back” in the original either

imagine the irony, if you will, of a body of believers all saying that the Bible is Word, and that they believe it all literally, only they dont even attempt a correct translation

 

[bbyrd009]

To him who overcomes I will give to eat of the hidden manna

 

[Scott Downey]

Wow Scott you gave me a lot to read, perhaps others will read it.

It’s proof that those written at Thessalonica were told about what was gonna to happen…

So I don’t see it as proof that Jesus wasn’t going to… return

v29 and 30, Jesus is emphasizing on the Day He Returns, He will destroy them all, that is all the wicked.

26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

What this means is Christ has not returned, because none of these things have happened, but they will happen, we just do not know the time of the Day of the Lord, when it actually will be. We are actually warned about that, that no one knows what that DAY is except God the Father Himself, not you, and not me.

 

[Scott Downey]

Matthew 24:35-37​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

No One Knows the Day or Hour​

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of [a]heaven, but My Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

The flood destroyed them all, swept the earth clean of all the wicked.

When Christ returns, He will do the same thing, He will slay all of the wicked who have refused to let Him reign over them

 

[Scott Downey]

Luke 19, Jesus describes Himself like a man going away on a long journey, and He leaves His various servants in charge of His goods.
But some of His citizens hated Him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’

Remember God says, All souls are mine, I will repay. The soul that sins shall die.

The Parable of the Minas​

11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten [e]minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’

Then the judgement cometh........the rewards and the punishments for the things they did....

15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’

20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are [f]an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’

24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”

 

[MatthewG]

That’s great @Scott Downey. Even though you haven’t come to believe that Jesus has returned already, and Gid having poured out his wrath on Israel in 70Ad I don’t have any reason to fight against you…

There are a lot of things you address to prove your own point but still didn’t answer my question.

May God bless you friend either way it goes, keep moving by the spirit and having love for God and others.

 

[MatthewG]

Jerusalem came down in great fire, with-in the context of history. So it makes sense to me about Matthew 24 and the temple and the return was all very close together and happened in 70Ad from some people’s view point.

That’s why it’s good to check the surround history of when the Gospel, Old Testament, and the written letters.

I believe the first bride was those first century Christian’s, primarily for the Jews first and some gentiles. That didn’t mean that there is not more to come.

Everyone who dies will have an experience with the Lord God Almighty who I believe is Jesus and his Father as one together on the throne, when they die.

 

[MatthewG]

wadr there is no “come back” in the original either

imagine the irony, if you will, of a body of believers all saying that the Bible is Word, and that they believe it all literally, only they dont even attempt a correct translation

What are you describing here? I don’t understand. Jesus wasn’t the terminator? He said he would be back?

To him who overcomes I will give to eat of the hidden manna

It’s hard overcome the flesh without faith. The spirit is needed to help overcome.

 

[MatthewG]

but see, He never promised to “come back” (hupo strepho), not one single time, in the whole NT, not anywhere
oops

That doesn’t make sense.

Can’t prove it without scriptures.

yikes, i guess now editing is gonna get hard here…
the point was to maybe rethink all this “wrath” that Yah is supposedly so set on

He was going to pour out his wrath on those of disobedience… 1,000,000 or so or more Jews died in 70Ad when their temple came down.

They say the wailing wall is still part of the temple, but I don’t believe that stuff, people also say that Jesus will come back once the third temple is built.

Doesn’t make sense to me it only needed to be done once.

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

God knows who the reprobate are, we don't. We are given hints like "by their fruit you will know them." A reprobate (an unredeemable person) has been given ample opportunities throughout their life to come to the Lord. The Bible says God draws all men to Himself, yet many resist, actually we all do for a time. But then after awhile a person is either enlightened and comes when he is called or gets callous, falls further into darkness. God draws a line with those individuals who resist, reject but also practice evil _ all the time and at a certain point (which is His prerogative and judgment) He let's them go to do what they desire. He says okay, have it your way! AND THAT IS IT, THEIR FATE IS SEALED. But God knew way before they actually reached that point of no return.

AGREED.

Like you said, we don't know whether or not someone will be saved. I have been praying for my son, Elijah, to be saved. He once on his own was worshipping and even leading a small group. Then he turned his back on God and says awful awful things I won't repeat. God is not shocked and I don't know if Elijah will ever return bc it looks as if he won't. I want to be wrong and I hurt I feel knowing that he will go to hell if he died today.

It hurts my soul in the deepest way.

 

[MatthewG]

AGREED.

Like you said, we don't know whether or not someone will be saved. I have been praying for my son, Elijah, to be saved. He once on his own was worshipping and even leading a small group. Then he turned his back on God and says awful awful things I won't repeat. God is not shocked and I don't know if Elijah will ever return bc it looks as if he won't. I want to be wrong and I hurt I feel knowing that he will go to hell if he died today.

It hurts my soul in the deepest way.

Hope and prayers for your son. I don't believe he would end up in hell, just wouldn't end up with-in the kingdom of God. Though most people today, do not believe that Jesus has had victory over hell. Take care.