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Why does Jesus...

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Joyful, Apr 28, 2007.

  1. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Matthew 24 Click the link and read it in its entirety without comments and without far reaching concluions and the word of writer. Matthew 24:3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Not the millenium. It's not mentioned here, quite clearly. However, to document the millenium's time, one only needs to read Revelation 19 at aproximately verse 11 where Christ returns. Satan is bound, for 1000 years (aka a millenium) in Revelation 20:2. That's the millenium, Scripturally documented where all authority rests.
     
  2. writer4hisglory

    writer4hisglory New Member

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    What is this in reference to concerning what I have said, Swamp?
     
  3. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Scriptural documentation. You wanted it, you got it.
     
  4. writer4hisglory

    writer4hisglory New Member

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    I see that, but what does that have to do with whether or not the individuals in the passage are saved or not, particularly the wicked servant?
     
  5. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Well, clearly, because it documents the time of millenium which is not a part of the timeframe of Matthew 24 as you have proposed. I've already documented what a servant of Christ is and we agree that Christ is the master returning to the earth. The good servant that continues working through his Word to the very end is the one that is rewarded. If this person is a servant of God, and not of man (easily documented so please ask if you require servent of man, or sin for that matter to be proven). Afterall, what is a servant of Christ? In fact, I've pretty much documented most everything I said. Can you same the same without your explanations?
     
  6. writer4hisglory

    writer4hisglory New Member

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    Yes, I can.
     
  7. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    James 2:14-26What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
     
  8. writer4hisglory

    writer4hisglory New Member

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    I have not yet had a chance to sit down with this verse. I can intelligently answer any questions you have for me on Matthew 24. Please give me time for James and Hebrews.
     
  9. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Why did you need time to go through the explicity stated? It's contiually the same thing. Whatever writer says is the Word and whatever anyone else says. We're supposed to document it all while you state a few verses and run the majority on your opinion. I leave this Scripture up to each individual reader because they can choose to follow after these winding explanations that avoid what is said even when it's stated at face value. Quite frankly, it needs no explanation. Faith without works is dead. Those aren't my words and those aren't writers words. Those are the inspired words of James found in God's Word.
     
  10. writer4hisglory

    writer4hisglory New Member

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    Again, I will need to look at the passage. I have studied out Matthew 24, given reasons for my conclusions, documented where I thought necessary, and am willing to answer any opposing or inquiring posts. If you are wanting to prove me wrong, I ask that you do two things: Address what is said, and use the Word of God. I will get to James, I just don't have time to do so right now.
     
  11. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Address what is said, and use the Word of God.
    The really funny thing is I have and I did.
     
  12. writer4hisglory

    writer4hisglory New Member

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    As I have done myself.
     
  13. writer4hisglory

    writer4hisglory New Member

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    The issue that we are addressing right now is whether or not the wicked servant is a Christian-used-to-be who lost his salvation, or an unsaved person. I have shown why I have arrived at the conclusion that I have in my responding post. That is the debate right now, not the time of the millennium. That is what I am asking you to address, Swampfox.
     
  14. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    The fact Writer, is that we may slipped (sin) against God every now & then...and confess our sins to Him. If we still wanting God and still repenting, we can't lose salvation, cause salvation is of the LORD. (Jonah 2:9) if we completely turn our back on Him then we're not saved until that person repents and wanting Him completely in his/her life. It is completely an insult to God to keep going back and forth.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
     
  15. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    writer, and I quote:
    The context of the passage is the “End of the Age” and the “Coming” of Christ as King over all the earth, namely the millennial reign of Christ:
    YOU brought it up. The passage from Matthew 24 is not about the millenium, it's about the coming of Christ. I Scripturally documented that the millenium comes only after His coming and this passage deals specifically with the time leading up to it. You have failed to answer my point about about what a servant of God is. In fact, you have downright ignored it documentation and all. We have to apply reason somewhere along in here about what the servants are. When God gives us a parable, it's for us to have eyes to see and ears to hear. My simple point is, the one that is returning is Christ. He is the master of the house. Naturally, the good servant is the one that believes and does what his master says. The evil being the one that ignores his coming and chooses to drink and be merry. Matthew 24:50-51The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Only Christ can condemn someone to the portion with the hypocrites where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. There's your documentation for who the Lord is. Now this is where we use our God given sense. What work does the servant do? Why none other than the work of his master! Someone doing the work of his Lord Jesus the Christ is only doing one thing. Works being done in the name of Jesus are done by those that believe in him. Notice that the servants choose what they do.
     
  16. writer4hisglory

    writer4hisglory New Member

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    You are using this passage to say that Christians can lose their salvation, when such is not the case, and is certainly not supported in this context. My bringing up the Millennial Kingdom was simply to say that Christ was returning to establish His Kingdom, namely the Millennial Kingdom, not that all of these events took place in the Millennial Kingdm. As you can tell from the rest of my post, I am well aware that this is a passage regarding the judgment and the returning of Christ. Don't pay attention to one sentence of my post while excluding everything else. As I have shown in my post, everyone, saved and unsaved, will one day give an account before God of their stewardships. The righteous at the Bema seat of Christ, and the unrighteous before th Great White Throne. I am saying that the wicked servant is and always has been unsaved in this passage. Again, as stated in my Matthew 24 Post, we see what happens to the righteous servant. These two servants are completely separate people, and there is no indication of the second one being saved. This does not support that you can lose your salvation.
     
  17. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    writer how about some scripture on this bema seat...? I see you have given one scripture to everyone elses' 25 and you are the one who knows...So is God's word proving itself wrong or you? I vote you are the one wrong here.
     
  18. Bamp;#39;midbar

    Bamp;#39;midbar New Member

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    I think Writer will at least provide this scripture. The word "bema" comes from the Greek, and is a judgment seat or tribunal or a step. I know you can look it up in Strong's (968 I think):
    2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
    This way you have some time to think about it. Writer usually doesn't post until at night. For your additional information, here is another verse with "bema" in it.
    John 19:13 Therefore when Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus out, and sat down on the judgment seat at a place called The Pavement, but in Hebrew, Gabbatha.
    At least this gives you some idea what one is.
     
  19. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    but two judgements I need scripture and bid I am challenging the truth of writers statment, so...
     
  20. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Bema...the word appears 12 times...Difination: a step, pace, the space which a foot covers, a foot-breath a raised place mounted by steps a platform, tribune of the official seat of a judge of the judgment seat of Christ Herod built a structure resembling a throne at Caesarea, from which he viewed the games and made speeches to the people.Judgement Seat 10 times, throne, 1 time, and to set (one's) foot on Pletheos 1 time... (4128)
     
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