Why does Jesus...

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betchevy

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but where does writer get this judgement seat from? HMMMM? there is the great white throned after the millienail reign... and when is this beama judgment? that is the question here....
 

writer4hisglory

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I don't want to get too side tracked from the debate that is currently going on. B'midbar and thesuperjag have answered your question for me. This particular judgment is found within 1 Corinthians 3 and 2 Corinthians 5. The question that remains concerning Matthew 24 is this: What indication is there that the second servant, the wicked one, is or was a Christian? To bring us back on topic: I hold that he was never a Christian, but rather an unsaved individual ignoring the signs of the coming of the King as given within the Word of God. Everyone, saved or unsaved, must give an account before the Lord for how they lived their life. The saved will give an account for rewards, and the unsaved for punishment. One only gives an account of something if they or something that they have belongs to the one that they are giving an account to, otherwise, there is nothing to give an account for. I hold that the unsaved, like the saved, are given stewardships, and thus can be labled servants, and they are the ones that are pictured in the second part of this parable concerning the wicked servant.
 

HammerStone

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I want to clarify something here. I'm not using the example of the second servant to say that this evil one was a Christian at one point. What the OSAS doctrine says is that someone, chosen by God, can literally do whatever they want after they are saved. This means that set person could decide to live on a deserted island never to preach the Word and instruct in the Word as it is our duty to do. I do not and will never agree to this point. My point, as originally stated, is that the servant that is found in good standing in the end times is the one that is doing what they are supposed to do. He is doing up to the very last moment which is what a servant of Christ does. The simple fact of the matter is that no prophet, disciple, apostle, or even Christ himself ever lived happily ever after. Every single one of them went out and declared the Word in his or her fashion. They did this until their deaths with Christ's being the most important. The OSAS doctrine is an excuse for self proclaimed Christians to play holier than thou regardless of whether they attend church or not. I have known numerous people who have backslid from their faith as the years went by and it is a terrible thing. One could certainly argue that they were never saved from the get go, but only Christ makes that call. I'll leave that to him. I believe in the elect and I believe that a true person who God has foreordained is always save, but they back that up with doing their duty. OSAS puts people in the place of saying that since they are now saved, they can wash their hands of the whole situation. It's a feel good doctrine that creates a plateau. Once that plateau is reached, there's nothing else to be done. That is not a doctrine of Christ.
 

writer4hisglory

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(SwampFox;10186)
I want to clarify something here. I'm not using the example of the second servant to say that this evil one was a Christian at one point.
Then why did you present it as proof to show that a person could lose their salvation? That was the point of bringing this up, right? I am saying Once you are saved you are always saved, you are saying that is not the case, and you presented this parable as proof of that. Which is it, Swampfox?
The OSAS doctrine is an excuse for self proclaimed Christians to play holier than thou regardless of whether they attend church or not.
Unless the Word of God teaches such, then it is not simply an excuse, as you put it.
 

Christina

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writer you say Romans 8:1 is proof of OSASwhere to you get this?Romans 8:1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in sinful man,[d] 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.this says nothing about once you saved you are always saved it is speaking of those currentley IN Christ.
 

Jordan

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Kriss, Writer is contradicting himself everytime...even in the shoubox. HE WILL NOT LEARN, UNTIL HE DUMP HIMSELF.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
 

HammerStone

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Which is it, Swampfox?
I've said it before, I'll say it again. The servant that is found good is found good because he is doing up until the very last moment. He's not off in the corner saying, "I'm already saved, so there's nothing left for me to do." If you'll kindly notice, I hightlighted that part of the passage in the first Scripture that I quoted within my first post. In fact, it was my first point. You promptly followed with a statement that it was out of context for the end of the age of which the time has no real bearing on what I said. I pointed out, quite clearly, that the good servant is doing up until the very end. Despite the fact that you said the Scripture I quoted was out of context, you proceeded to explain it in another way as well. You then proceeded to bicker with me calling the servant saved to which I replied asking what is a servant of Christ? All of this was documented to everyone's apparent satisfaction except yours. A servant of Christ is pretty specific. Paul was one and he instructed us to be one. It's not just some random, God-ignorant individual finishing out his role. It's very clear that the Lord coming back is none other than Christ. It explicity says that.
Unless the Word of God teaches such, then it is not simply an excuse, as you put it.
Document me one example in the Bible where OSAS applied to someone that resigned from their ministry and went off to live happily ever after, to use the hackneyed phrase. My entire point in this thread has been faith without works is dead. OSAS asserts that you are saved no matter what, and that is not a doctrine of Christ.
 

HammerStone

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I guess I am missing the part where anything in these verses runs off and does nothing since they are saved. Mind pointing it out? I Corinthians 3 deals with laborers. Last time I checked, you have to perform labor to a laborer. Paul speaks about feeding the Corinthians (and us) with milk. Another action. The metaphor about the master builder. More action. I Corinthians 9:3For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. Paul was a prime candidate for OSAS. What did he do? He did the work of Christ all his life. His faith lead him to do works just as faith should. It's the same with I Corinthians 11. What exactly are you driving at here?
 

Joyful

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Paul refers to the Corinthians here as Christians, those who are dieing because of their sin.
do you realize what you are doing, writer? You just said Christians die if they sin. So your OSAS theology is not making sense at all again.
 

HammerStone

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I Corinthians 11:19For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. Paul is writing to weed out those heresies. We all sin, no one denies that. The funny thing is, this doesn't answer my question in the least. This argument never has been about the saved being perfect. I still want an example in the Bible where someone was saved and decided of their own free will to do nothing on it. Meaning that the OSAS doctrine says since they were saved, they can literally do whatever they want to, and they choose to retire and do no works of faith. Making a mistake is one thing. Willfully leading a life away from Christ is another.
 

Jordan

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(writer)
Paul refers to the Corinthians here as Christians, those who are dieing because of their sin.
(Faithful1)
do you realize what you are doing, writer? You just said Christians die if they sin. So your OSAS theology is not making sense at all again.
Writer, you are so failing. You are ignorant...You can't even see your own contradictions, yet you say I was not contradicting myself.FACT IS MANKIND WILL ALWAY CONTRADICT THEMSELVES. God/Jesus is the only that doesn't contradict themselves. YOU WON'T LEARN.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
 

writer4hisglory

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Thesuperjag, it appears as though you have some beef with me that you are going at everything that I say and trying to shoot me down. Give me a chance. I am quite busy with a full time job, Sunday school class, and serving within the Church. I will get to these verses when I can.