Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?

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amigo de christo

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You're talking and thinking like a man. It's not surprising that you think this is all about us.
what is also the one thing you never seem to see him doing .
Remiding all of the absolute dire necessity to BELIEVE ON JESUS .
and even now if he comes along and tries to say
he d oes . PLEASE . HE DONT . and the only reason he might try and say he do
IS BECAUSE I BROUGHT IT UP .
NO mam . the man is a deconstructionalist that just happens to be in love with universalism .
IF he had even a hundreth of the zeal for preaching JESUS
as HE DO for this doubt planting , HECK he might have won some souls .
but no , not this g ene ration . it had rather beleive in a big ol kuymbia fable that will not save THEM or anyone else .
In fact thro ugh their carnal version of what they THINK is love
THEY DENY the very words OF JESUS
who quite often warned of such a place for UNBELIEVERS .
Their love calls CHRIST , thus GOD a liar .
And their love seems to ADD TOO and TAKE from the book of revelation .
A BIG WARNING was given about those who do such a t hing .
 

amigo de christo

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My understanding of sin in a nutshell is that it is when man or devil goes their own way instead of God's. Essentially it is rebellion against God's will and way. Do you have a different understanding of it?
IS REBELLION SIN . WHY YES IT IS .
IT is as THE SIN of witchcraft .
SO I would for sure say your understanding is SPOT ON RIGHT .
Something many in this g eneration would be wise to heed .
IF anyone is doing anything contrary to GOD , HIS words , HIS WAY
then its REBELLION and thus IT IS SIN .
And we all know who rebelled first against GOD in heaven
and later was seen in the garden
and led man right into rebellion against WHAT GOD had said . DO NOT EAT of the tree
became oh ye can eat of the tree . SEE .
And now allow me to sum it up .
THERE IS a WAY , A WAY that SEEMS RIGHT UNTO A MAN , but THE END thereof BE DEATH .
 

amigo de christo

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There is a way that seems right unto a man but the end is death .
THEN THERE IS GODS WAY , THE ONLY WAY , JESUS THE CHRIST
Thus kick universalism out
and PREACH THIS WAY , THE ONLY WAY , JESUS THE CHRIST and YE MUST BELEIVE ON HIM .
 

Button

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I agree.
But incinerating someone for refusing a free gift seems a bit harsh.

--- PARODY ---

Person #1: Receive the free gift of eternal life.
Person #2: No thanks.
Person #1: I said it was free.
Person #2: There must be some strings attached.
Person #1: Well, of course.
Person #2: It's not a free gift then, right?
Person #1: You had better take it... or else!
Person #2: Say what?
Person #1: Otherwise you will be incinerated!
Person #2: What sort of free gift is that?

Indeed.
Imagine that sermon by Jesus.
Love me! Or, I'll burn you for eternity.
 

ProDeo

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That assumes that God's presence is condemning rather than loving.

No, it does not.

And typically used to whitewash the hell doctrine by blaming the victim.
Is God in the business of punishment or redemption?

You seem to have the idea that free will can be controlled.

The devil -- while living in God's presence -- fell from grace and became an enemy, did he repent?

Many angels followed him in his rebellion.

It's what free will does, reveal the opposite of Him, sin and evil.
 

Brakelite

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That assumes that God's presence is condemning rather than loving.
It has nothing to do with condemning or loving. And, condemning is not the opposite to loving. It's about Who God is. The Bible says God is love. Therefore, should He condemn anyone, it's because of love, not antithetical to love. So, whether someone is able to stand in the presence of God is not about what God does, but about Who He is. He is holy. Sin offends that holiness, not because God arbitrarily chooses to denounce the Son and condemn the sinner, but because sin itself by its very nature cannot abide in the presence of a holy God, by God's very nature. So if you choose to hold on to sin, and you come into the presence of God, the sin shall be destroyed and you along with it Nevada of your connection to it. Why do you think that fit the pay 6000 years God has always, in every instance, used an intercessor... to protect us. Hence why the Son, in modified divinity, was able to come to earth and sinners survive His presence. But even then, there were times...
And typically used to whitewash the hell doctrine by blaming the victim.
Why should not sinners be blamed for their sin? Are you we have no choice?
The bible says He is willing that no-one should perish. It is not His explicit will.
We too often think of God's will as being a precursor to deliberate action. It's true He isn't willing that any should perish, And the greatest evidence of that is He sent His Son to die in our place. And it's a grave error to suggest that God deliberately caused anyone to reject the gospel. It is their desire to cleave to their sin that causes them to reject the only means by which sin is defeated.
How I understand it is that those who He foreknew would reject Him and not repent, He created them anyway....to be vessels of wrath
It may be true He knew who would reject and accept the gospel. He even knew of Lucifer's rebellion before the angels were created. Of one was of a mind to, you could blame God for every evil under the sun because He created Lucifer.
He did not create anyone to be a vessel of wrath. He created everyone in order to give everyone an opportunity to choose to love God and serve Him.
There is no reason for anyone to at last die the second death except that he has resisted or rejected the salvation already "given" him "in Christ". Christ died for all. He tasted death for every man. 2 Cor.5:14; Hebrews 2:9; Hebrews 2:3; Matt.22:5. (Neglect in the KJV Heb2:3 means despise.)
At Christ's baptism, the Father accepted the human race in Him. Matthew 3:17 Thus He is already "the Saviour of all men" John 4:42. No one ought to doubt that the Lord has accepted him or her in Christ. But Christ is especially the Savior of those who believe. 1 Timothy 4:10 our relationship doesn't depend on us initiating such a relationship, but accepting what Christ had already initiated.
 

Lizbeth

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We too often think of God's will as being a precursor to deliberate action. It's true He isn't willing that any should perish, And the greatest evidence of that is He sent His Son to die in our place. And it's a grave error to suggest that God deliberately caused anyone to reject the gospel. It is their desire to cleave to their sin that causes them to reject the only means by which sin is defeated.
Amen, well said. The bible also says the Lord does not willingly afflict the children of men...and yet we see many do get afflicted, including believers..
 

Lizbeth

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It may be true He knew who would reject and accept the gospel. He even knew of Lucifer's rebellion before the angels were created. Of one was of a mind to, you could blame God for every evil under the sun because He created Lucifer.
He did not create anyone to be a vessel of wrath. He created everyone in order to give everyone an opportunity to choose to love God and serve Him.
There is no reason for anyone to at last die the second death except that he has resisted or rejected the salvation already "given" him "in Christ". Christ died for all. He tasted death for every man. 2 Cor.5:14; Hebrews 2:9; Hebrews 2:3; Matt.22:5. (Neglect in the KJV Heb2:3 means despise.)
At Christ's baptism, the Father accepted the human race in Him. Matthew 3:17 Thus He is already "the Saviour of all men" John 4:42. No one ought to doubt that the Lord has accepted him or her in Christ. But Christ is especially the Savior of those who believe. 1 Timothy 4:10 our relationship doesn't depend on us initiating such a relationship, but accepting what Christ had already initiated.
I think of it in terms of God's sovereignty based on His foreknowledge....since the bible says we are "elect according to His foreknowledge". He gives people the opportunity to repent, but if they keep refusing they become hardened...it is like a natural consequence. And the Lord, having long foreknown who would do what and when, has woven it all into His plans/purposes. But I believe there is no doubt we need to humbly acknowledge the Lord's sovereign right to do with man whatever He wills, as our Creator and Ruler of all that exists in heaven and earth. I dont' want to go too far, we only know in part, but I wonder if where it says He hardens who He will, if that is in a manner of speaking....based on His sovereign rule in the things He allows.

Rom 9:16-23

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
 

Lizbeth

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Imagine that sermon by Jesus.
Love me! Or, I'll burn you for eternity.
That is not the approach Jesus took. He was much more tactful than that, and preferred to extol the benefits and blessings and simple truth of believing in Him, while not withholding the truth about judgment at the same time. If there is no judgment, there is no mercy either...because mercy is pardon from judgment. Up to the people whether they would believe Him when He spoke of either....and as we know, most didn't. (And just to say, myself I don't believe body and soul being destroyed/burned in gehenna/fire goes on for eternity, at least not for man, though it might for the devil and his angels.)
 

HealthyShape

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I agree.
But incinerating someone for refusing a free gift seems a bit harsh.

--- PARODY ---

Person #1: Receive the free gift of eternal life.
Person #2: No thanks.
Person #1: I said it was free.
Person #2: There must be some strings attached.
Person #1: Well, of course.
Person #2: It's not a free gift then, right?
Person #1: You had better take it... or else!
Person #2: Say what?
Person #1: Otherwise you will be incinerated!
Person #2: What sort of free gift is that?

Indeed.
I think there is logical error in your parody. Free gift of salvation means it is free of charge. It does not mean that there are no consequences when somebody does not receive it.

Therefore, your parody is missing the target.
 

St. SteVen

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I think there is logical error in your parody. Free gift of salvation means it is free of charge. It does not mean that there are no consequences when somebody does not receive it.

Therefore, your parody is missing the target.
On the contrary.

Free means free of charge. Gift means there are no obligations or expectations.

Therefore, your comment is missing the mark.
 
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HealthyShape

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On the contrary.

Free means free of charge. Gift means there are no obligations or expectations.

Therefore, your comment is missing the mark.
Imagine somebody drowning and being offered a free gift of a lifebuoy. I hope you understand the flaw in your parody, now. It is still free no matter that the person drowned because of the gift rejection.

The term "free" in the context of salvation does not mean "it is not needed". It means we do not need to earn it.
 
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Button

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On the contrary.

Free means free of charge. Gift means there are no obligations or expectations.

Therefore, your comment is missing the mark.
Those who are here to take our time up with misrepresenting scripture don't concern themselves with studying the actual Bible.

It becomes obvious after awhile. They take what Bible students know,oops, one of those type might accuse me of being JW for using that term, and twist it. That way they can present a false narrative to see if we will try to set them straight.

In forums like this it's rare to have actual Christians in majority. It as the scripture tells us.

The darkness hates the light.
Wait till they grow old and die.
Playtime is over.
 
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St. SteVen

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Those who are here to take our time up with misrepresenting scripture don't concern themselves with studying the actual Bible.
It seems that many of them learn from teachers rather than letting the Bible speak to them personally in their own reading of it.

Kind of like mother birds feeding their young. They regurgitate in their mouths. - LOL
 
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Button

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It seems that many of them learn from teachers rather than letting the Bible speak to them personally in their own reading of it.

Kind of like mother birds feeding their young. They regurgitate in their mouths. - LOL
Maybe some are that way.
I think others are here just to play games.

I know Roman Catholics. They're taught that they need a Priest to assist proper understanding of the scriptures.
Those I know don't own a Bible. If they did they would have to have that one that is approved by the Vatican.

A bit like the blind leading the blind.

One of those friends and I were discussing a teaching in the New Testament.
They asked me to show them where Jesus had said that what we were discussing.

I have different Bible versions in my library but not a Vatican approved version.
When she realized this,she wouldn't even touch the Bible I offered that would show her the passage.

The Vatican didn't recognize it as God's word.
 
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XtraPercept

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[pertaining to Universalism as a conversational bludgeon for dismissing the clearly stated coming redemption of all creation to avoid the inconveniences this Word presents to the doctrines of those who employ '-isms']

The -ism suffix is always employed to facilitate dismissal of more difficult points of contention.

It's as if to say, "I need not address the point you contend, as greater men have already settled the matter."

If the aforementioned men of supposed greatness didn't make it into the Bible, I hold them in contempt for having the audacity to declare for themselves the finality of any matter with potential for contention. The disobedient have been shutting down the conversation from the beginning, but the truth goes marching on.

And if God says He saves to the uttermost, I believe Him. How faith and study bring us to understand the truth of His words is what these '-isms' seek hastily to dismiss.

Suppression comes only from deception because truth is made known by exposure.
 
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