Why don’t you believe Satan has been defeated?

[Lambano]

There is no more Law for him to accuse anyone because it was nailed to the cross:

For when Gentiles who do not have Torah instinctively perform the requirements of Torah, these, though not having Torah, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of Torah written in their hearts, their conscience testifying and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of mankind through Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:14-16)

 

[Lambano]

I have stated this time and time again, what one believes is between them and God.

I can only partially agree with this. What you believe also affects what you do, and what you do affects others.

Just think about it.

 

[MatthewG]

Just to make sure I understand what you are saying: Do you believe

• Satan and his demons exist, but are now impotent and ineffective, or
• Satan and his demons did exist, but no longer do

I do not believe Satan and his angels have anything to do with anyone anymore. They used to, before the return of Jesus and his victory.

And just to make sure you understand my own beliefs: I am decidedly NOT one of those people who attributes all sin and evil and temptation to Satan and his minions. One of my real-life church friends is like that, and it drives me nuts because she's blind to her own culpability for some really poor decision making. We don't need Satan's help to screw-up our lives and relationships.

Okay.

 

[MatthewG]

I can only partially agree with this. What you believe also affects what you do, and what you do affects others.

Just think about it.

If one decides to have a relationship with God the result should be loving God and loving others.

 

[MatthewG]

For when Gentiles who do not have Torah instinctively perform the requirements of Torah, these, though not having Torah, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of Torah written in their hearts, their conscience testifying and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of mankind through Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:14-16)

All people now today would be considered Gentiles: considering God chosen the nation of Israel to act through, and since the victory of Christ and his return to his bride in that day.

God works through nature, conscious, the law -> which leads to Christ, Jesus Christ, the apostles, the the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is primary for Christian’s in this life.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It teaches us what sin is.

It teaches a non-Christian without the laws written on our hearts what sin is.

 

[Bob Estey]

It teaches a non-Christian without the laws written on our hearts what sin is.

It shows us all what behaviors to avoid so we don't get into trouble.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It shows us all what behaviors to avoid so we don't get into trouble.

Yes, for sinners without the Spirit. Do you not know how the New Covenant operates for Christians? Do you think we really need to know not to murder?

 

[Lambano]

I do not believe Satan and his angels have anything to do with anyone anymore. They used to, before the return of Jesus and his victory.

What do you think "Jesus's victory" is?

Is there anything left to be accomplished?

 

[MatthewG]

What do you think "Jesus's victory" is?

Is there anything left to be accomplished?

What’s believed is Jesus having the victory over sin, death (all death), Satan and his angels, hell/Sheol/grave, and God through Christ reconciled the world back to Himself because of these things. What’s believed is that in a spiritual sense is the Garden of Eden has been restored and all people have a choice to eat from the tree of life (Yeshua - becoming made spiritually alive) or the tree of knowledge of good and evil (the world and all it does).

The Kingdom of Heavenly Jerusalem has been established and it will go on forever, with many coming to Christ to enter.

 

[MatthewG]

Is there anything left to accomplish?

What do you mean by that? The only thing I could say is showing love to God first and love to others while we have the ability to live.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What’s believed is Jesus having the victory over sin, death (all death), Satan and his angels, hell/Sheol/grave, and God through Christ reconciled the world back to Himself because of these things. What’s believed is that in a spiritual sense is the Garden of Eden has been restored and all people have a choice to eat from the tree of life (Yeshua - becoming made spiritually alive) or the tree of knowledge of good and evil (the world and all it does).

The Kingdom of Heavenly Jerusalem has been established and it will go on forever, with many coming to Christ to enter.

Actually, we have even more than Adam first did. Yes, we now have a pure free-will, but instead of wanting to choose evil, like disobeying God and eat a harmless looking piece of fruit, we are slaves of righteousness. Romans 6:18. This is because we not only have a pure human nature, we partake of the divine nature of God, Himself. Furthermore, we have the authority to heal the sick and even raise the dead. We can do anything Jesus did while on earth and more, using the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[MatthewG]

Actually, we have even more than Adam first did. Yes, we now have a pure free-will, but instead of wanting to choose evil, like disobeying God and eat a harmless looking piece of fruit, we are slaves of righteousness. Romans 6:18. This is because we not only have a pure human nature, we partake of the divine nature of God, Himself. Furthermore, we have the authority to heal the sick and even raise the dead. We can do anything Jesus did while on earth and more, using the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

There are some aspects of the Bible i believe were just for the apostles in that day in age, 1CL, I will say I agree we do have now as believers new spiritual life by the Holy Spirit, which Adam died spiritually when partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Not so sure what you may mean when you say raise the dead? Could you apply that in a spiritual sense?

It’s not like we go to the grave yard and dig up a dead body and make them alive again.

There is only one event I remember Paul, raising that guy who fell out the window back from the dead. Acts 20.

 

[MatthewG]

As stated before, though I tend to openly share my beliefs.

What you believe is totally between you and God.

If you believe you can raise the dead, okay, if you believe that you can heal psychical ailments, okay…

It just doesn’t make sense to say to a teenager who has a dying sickly mother who prays that her mother is to be healed, and then God doesn’t intervene…. That person didn’t have a enough faith, and possibly lead them to being angry at God.

My apologizes if I seem to be against anyone, I’m really not, what I am against is religious traditions that have been around for so long, and desire truth… truth in the sense of what is true and what is for an individual in the Bible and what is not.

So listen never believe me; but be encouraged to study yourself and learn the Bible and see what it says and keep in context and understand when the dating of the letters were written and seek to find peace with God in your own life and as the spirit leads share your hope you have with other people.

God bless.

 

[Bob Estey]

Yes, for sinners without the Spirit. Do you not know how the New Covenant operates for Christians? Do you think we really need to know not to murder?

It doesn't matter if you are under the law or not - if you rob a bank, you go to prison.

 

[Jay Ross]

The only wisdom that is to be given is understanding that I’m a fallible human being who needs Jesus because I fall short of Gods glory, but Yeshua is Gods glory so we look to Him in faith.

But the wisdom that I asked you to provide was to answer this question: -

If my timeline of when Satan will be finally defeated is flawed, then please present your rebuttal without any airs of being better than others and show the errors in what I have posted.

Now since I have not judged you as a person or your relationship with the "entity" that you worship, but have only questioned your theological presentation, your above response does not deal with the question that I have posed/requested of you, but instead you have chosen to shows your "airs" and not to provide your understanding/wisdom as to whether or not, what I have posted that, Satan has not been defeated yet. I agree that we all "are a fallible human being" in need of a righteous relationship with God/Jesus, that is true for every human being.

But since you will not respond by satisfying my request of you for your wisdom on the subject matter of this thread, I can only assume that what you are posting/have posted is nothing but "hog wash" that one can only assume is "your truth," and is not scripturally true.

Have a good day now.

Goodbye.

 

[MatthewG]

But the wisdom that I asked you to provide was to answer this question: -



Now since I have not judged you as a person or your relationship with the "entity" that you worship, but have only questioned your theological presentation, your above response does not deal with the question that I have posed/requested of you, but instead you have chosen to shows your "airs" and not to provide your understanding/wisdom as to whether or not, what I have posted that, Satan has not been defeated yet. I agree that we all "are a fallible human being" in need of a righteous relationship with God/Jesus, that is true for every human being.

But since you will not respond by satisfying my request of you for your wisdom on the subject matter of this thread, I can only assume that what you are posting/have posted is nothing but "hog wash" that one can only assume is "your truth," and is not scripturally true.

Have a good day now.

Goodbye.

Good bye sir, and take care.

I have presented my view on the first post on this thread on how I see Revelation 13, and 20.

I remember you sharing your view and you are more than welcome to believe what you want.

 

[Lambano]

Is there anything left to accomplish?

What do you mean by that?

I mean, when will Jesus's people truly put on the incorruptible body and live without sin? When will death really be no more? When will every individual in the world be reconciled to God and God to them in full relationship? When will God wipe away every tear?

And who or what is opposing the full consummation of the age?

 

[MatthewG]

A lot of good questions, Lambano.

1. death as been overcome by Jesus - when you die you are going to be given a certain judgment by God and given a spiritual body once you leave this world.

2. All people have been reconciled to God through Christ, they have been saved from hell, death, Satan and his demons, and their debt of sin was paid for by Jesus - it’s just a choice people have to individually make, Will I seek out the things of God or only seek out what the world offers. (There are the faithful and the faithless, and I believe faithless people have a place outside of the kingdom.

3. The wiping away of every tear is coming by spiritual comfort founded only in looking to God and looking to the eternal aspects of life and not just the material. We all suffer physically pain, illness, sicknes, sadness all comfort founded in the spirit.

4. I personally believe live in the Age of fulfilment where everything has been taken care of by the victory of Christ. The age of the first generation of believers that were the bride is over, now it’s just up to the individual Will they seek out the things of God while they live in this life or not, it is totally dependent on them as an individual.

The Kingdom of the Heavenly Jerusalem will increase forever it will never stop.

 

[BeyondET]

Interesting topic, seems alot of scholars put revelation written around 100 CE,

The Bible mentions Satan released after 1000 years being chained etc.

Did that happen in 1100 CE or did John meant a longer time out on the release.