Why Doubt Osas?

[Jordan]

QUOTE (Rank Stranger @ Mar 26 2009, 01:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71298
You stated, QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 26 2009, 01:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71297
"What part of You can break a promise do you not get?? God made Israel his people and they followed false gods and he divorced them. Are you so arrogant you dont think he will do the same to you or any one of us IF IF IF we do not do our part and stay in his word and stay faithful all you have is a promise IF IF IF you keep the faith, you will be saved ... IF you do not keep the faith you have broken the promise NOT GOD YOU And dont give me this then they were not saved garbage .... Its the typical cop out for you OSAS believers If one confess and accepts Christ as savior in their heart at that moment they are saved ... there is no other rule or certain lengh of time one has to believe ... at that moment they are saved period .... And how dare you say they were not because it doesnt fit your men's doctrine .... You can not read their heart ... But nothing keeps them from falling away but their own choices and free will .... They have left their Father... not the other way around ....The bible is full of this occurring What you think Judas became a apostle with out really being saved ...OSAS is not a doctrine of God ...unless we fulfil our part of the promiseTom gave an excellent explanation of this if apostasy were not possible we wouldn't be warned about it. and unsaved person can not fall away from what he never had .... "
Why do you deny God's omniscience? That is precisely what you are doing. Of course we can turn away from God by the exercise of our onw free will. BUT HE WOULD ALREADY KNOW THAT WE WILL TURN AWAY FROM HIM, SO HE WILL NOT GIVE THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHOM HE ALREADY KNOWS WILL TURN AWAY FROM HIM THE FREE GIFT OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT IN THE FIRST PLACE. HE WILL NOT GIVE IT WHILE KNOWING HE WILL ONE DAY TAKE IT AWAY AGAIN. HE IS PERFECT, AND HE NEVER BREAKS ONE OF HIS PROMISES OR MAKES ANY MISTAKES.Have you ever heard of the Book Of Life Of The Lamb? It is already written, and it is waiting in Heaven under a seal that no man can open. Oh, and it was written long before creation was begun. It contains the names of every person who is a true Christian.And if you key on the verse where Jesus threatens to remove the names of certain people out of that book, just remember that His threat was just that, and there is no indication anywhere in Scripture that He has removed any name out of that book. Why is that? Because God is perfect, never makes mistakes, and already knows who will come to Him as His sheep and who will reject Him and be goats, that's why.Rank StrangerWhat part of free will do you not understand?John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.Have you not read that God will destroy the souls that follow Satan?Ezekiel 18:1 - The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die.The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.What part of to repent or not to repent do you not get?Luke 13:3 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.Luke 13:5 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.Matthew 6:24 - No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.Luke 16:13 - No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[Christina]

QUOTE (Rank Stranger @ Mar 26 2009, 11:38 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71298
You stated, "What part of You can break a promise do you not get?? God made Israel his people and they followed false gods and he divorced them. Are you so arrogant you dont think he will do the same to you or any one of us IF IF IF we do not do our part and stay in his word and stay faithful all you have is a promise IF IF IF you keep the faith, you will be saved ... IF you do not keep the faith you have broken the promise NOT GOD YOU And dont give me this then they were not saved garbage .... Its the typical cop out for you OSAS believers If one confess and accepts Christ as savior in their heart at that moment they are saved ... there is no other rule or certain lengh of time one has to believe ... at that moment they are saved period .... And how dare you say they were not because it doesnt fit your men's doctrine .... You can not read their heart ... But nothing keeps them from falling away but their own choices and free will .... They have left their Father... not the other way around ....The bible is full of this occurring What you think Judas became a apostle with out really being saved ...OSAS is not a doctrine of God ...unless we fulfil our part of the promiseTom gave an excellent explanation of this if apostasy were not possible we wouldn't be warned about it. and unsaved person can not fall away from what he never had .... "Why do you deny God's omniscience? That is precisely what you are doing. Of course we can turn away from God by the exercise of our onw free will. BUT HE WOULD ALREADY KNOW THAT WE WILL TURN AWAY FROM HIM, SO HE WILL NOT GIVE THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHOM HE ALREADY KNOWS WILL TURN AWAY FROM HIM THE FREE GIFT OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT IN THE FIRST PLACE. HE WILL NOT GIVE IT WHILE KNOWING HE WILL ONE DAY TAKE IT AWAY AGAIN. HE IS PERFECT, AND HE NEVER BREAKS ONE OF HIS PROMISES OR MAKES ANY MISTAKES.Have you ever heard of the Book Of Life Of The Lamb? It is already written, and it is waiting in Heaven under a seal that no man can open. Oh, and it was written long before creation was begun. It contains the names of every person who is a true Christian.And if you key on the verse where Jesus threatens to remove the names of certain people out of that book, just remember that His threat was just that, and there is no indication anywhere in Scripture that He has removed any name out of that book. Why is that? Because God is perfect, never makes mistakes, and already knows who will come to Him as His sheep and who will reject Him and be goats, that's why.Rank Stranger
To be honest about it Rank stranger if you want to believe this trash of men.. I can not stop you.. but the fact you push it to others will get you judged ....so you better stop arguing with us and learn what your father says he warns us of apostasy and falling away for a reason for your sake you best better figure out that reason ... This isnt about God breaking a promise its about us breaking one ... This doctrine comes from men who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions ...the disease of Today ...Its somebody eles fault never our own ..in this case Gods ...

 

[Rank Stranger]

I find it rather troubling that many individuals who claim to know and love God will actually deny His perfection and ability. To think that they would claim that anyone who has truly been born again in the Spirit could possibly not be saved by God's grace due to future sinning is a complete denial of both God's perfection and His ability. A truly saved person would never want to turn away from God in any way or for any reason, while all others do not know Him at all (hopefully "yet" for some). It is a fact that everyone, without exception, will believe in God at some point in the future. Many if not most of them will be wailing and gnashing their teeth at the time, but that will not matter to Him. He already knew the choices each of them would make before they were made. And not one of them will be able to provide a single excuse as to why they do not deserve eternal torment.God created everything, including all things good and evil. He tells us as much in Scripture. And yet there are Christians who will proclaim that God did not create anything evil. They deny that He is THE Creator, and He can do ANYTHING that He wants as long as it fits within His Purpose. He did create Evil, and He did so deliberately as part of His Purpose.He is God. He is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. He is not constrained by time as we know it, so He is still present in the world of a hundred million years ago just as He is already present in the world at the end of recordable time. He is aware of every single thing that happens, just as He is aware of the number of hairs on every person's head and when any sparrow dies. He is bigger then we are capable of imagining, and He is smarter and stronger then we are capable of imagining. His purpose is so big, and so complex, that we cannot hope to imagine any aspect of it with the single exception of our own eternal life.Can you imagine what life will be like in Heaven? Certainly you already know it will be bright with the power of His glory, but what else? There will be mansions and a great throne, and lots of praising God, but what else? Most of us cannot imagine the greatnest of even these things, much less all of the other glory we will share in.But I am rambling, so an end is appropriate.Rank StrangerYou stated, "To be honest about it Rank stranger if you want to believe this trash of men.. I can not stop you.. but the fact you push it to others will get you judged ....so you better stop arguing with us and learn what your father says he warns us of apostasy and falling away for a reason for your sake you best better figure out that reason ... This isnt about God breaking a promise its about us breaking one ... This doctrine comes from men who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions ...the disease of Today ...Its somebody eles fault never our own ..in this case Gods ... "You cannot point to a single thing I have written that is not contained in Scripture. It is you who are talking trash when you deny the power of God. If you think He would give the Holy Spirit to someone, only to take it away later in that person's life, then you really do not know God at all. I would humbly suggest that, if you want to avoid judgement, you read more about Him and His awesome abilities. You are saying He will take away His gift to men, and that is something He would never do. When you receive the free gift of the Holy Spirit, that is a gift from God alone, and IT WILL NEVER BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU. To think that He would take it away is no different then saying that He does not know what He is doing, and that is a lie worthy of His judgement.Rank Stranger

 

[Jordan]

QUOTE (Rank Stranger @ Mar 26 2009, 02:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71301
I find it rather troubling that many individuals who claim to know and love God will actually deny His perfection and ability. To think that they would claim that anyone who has truly been born again in the Spirit could possibly not be saved by God's grace due to future sinning is a complete denial of both God's perfection and His ability. A truly saved person would never want to turn away from God in any way or for any reason, while all others do not know Him at all (hopefully "yet" for some). It is a fact that everyone, without exception, will believe in God at some point in the future. Many if not most of them will be wailing and gnashing their teeth at the time, but that will not matter to Him. He already knew the choices each of them would make before they were made. And not one of them will be able to provide a single excuse as to why they do not deserve eternal torment.God created everything, including all things good and evil. He tells us as much in Scripture. And yet there are Christians who will proclaim that God did not create anything evil. They deny that He is THE Creator, and He can do ANYTHING that He wants as long as it fits within His Purpose. He did create Evil, and He did so deliberately as part of His Purpose.He is God. He is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. He is not constrained by time as we know it, so He is still present in the world of a hundred million years ago just as He is already present in the world at the end of recordable time. He is aware of every single thing that happens, just as He is aware of the number of hairs on every person's head and when any sparrow dies. He is bigger then we are capable of imagining, and He is smarter and stronger then we are capable of imagining. His purpose is so big, and so complex, that we cannot hope to imagine any aspect of it with the single exception of our own eternal life.Can you imagine what life will be like in Heaven? Certainly you already know it will be bright with the power of His glory, but what else? There will be mansions and a great throne, and lots of praising God, but what else? Most of us cannot imagine the greatnest of even these things, much less all of the other glory we will share in.But I am rambling, so an end is appropriate.Rank StrangerYou stated, "To be honest about it Rank stranger if you want to believe this trash of men.. I can not stop you.. but the fact you push it to others will get you judged ....so you better stop arguing with us and learn what your father says he warns us of apostasy and falling away for a reason for your sake you best better figure out that reason ... This isnt about God breaking a promise its about us breaking one ... This doctrine comes from men who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions ...the disease of Today ...Its somebody eles fault never our own ..in this case Gods ... "You cannot point to a single thing I have written that is not contained in Scripture. It is you who are talking trash when you deny the power of God. If you think He would give the Holy Spirit to someone, only to take it away later in that person's life, then you really do not know God at all. I would humbly suggest that, if you want to avoid judgement, you read more about Him and His awesome abilities. You are saying He will take away His gift to men, and that is something He would never do. When you receive the free gift of the Holy Spirit, that is a gift from God alone, and IT WILL NEVER BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU. To think that He would take it away is no different then saying that He does not know what He is doing, and that is a lie worthy of His judgement.Rank Stranger
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.James 2:19 - Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.James 2:20 - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[Rank Stranger]

QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 26 2009, 03:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71303
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.James 2:19 - Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.James 2:20 - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jordan, what is your point?

 

[tomwebster]

QUOTE (Rank Stranger @ Mar 26 2009, 02:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71301
I find it rather troubling ...
I don't mind troubling you, it doesn't matter to me what you think. What God thinks is the only thing that matters. I am also willing to wait and see. Good luck to you.

 

[Christina]

QUOTE (Rank Stranger @ Mar 26 2009, 01:17 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71304
Jordan, what is your point?
What does he mean LOL.... its scripture that says the oppisite of what you are saying.. we can not be blind to any scripture that doesnt say what we chose it to. Just the fact it says differentley and we are warned of a great falling away should give you some clues that there is a major problem with your doctrine .... can you not see that these are believers God is speaking toMatthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?What does god say to them Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Why does he say this to believers ???? answer that question and you will know you OSAS is a fake doctrine of men.

 

[Rank Stranger]

C, You stated, "can you not see that these are believers God is speaking toMatthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"There is a major difference between believers and true Christians. Hey, even the devils believe, and they tremble. Belief in Jesus, all by itself, does not mean salvation. The poor Catholics believe in Jesus as they pray to Mary and hundreds of other man-made "saints" or kneel before idols as they offer prayers to God. They believe, but it is doubtful God will overlook or forgive their physical declaration of hatred for Him or their prayers to false gods. They could find the truth, but they freely choose to place their faith in man rather than directly with God.There are many "denominations" that claim to believe in Jesus, but then proceed to do things that God clearly tells us He hates. Now their eventual salvation is strictly up to Him and His judgement. We cannot know what is in their hearts regarding Jesus. The same can be said regarding our insight with respect to true believers who have been born again in the Spirit of God. We cannot know for certain who is born again, and who claims to be born again but really does not know Jesus at all.And I will maintain that all true Believers are saved eternally, and none of them can ever lose their salvation for any reason. Once God makes His claim on any person, that person is His forever and ever. What you folks choose to believe is up to you, but the Bible is Very clear. Once you are numbered with the (real) saints, nothing can pry you away from God.Rank Stranger

 

[Rank Stranger]

C, you also stated, "Why does he say this to believers ???? answer that question and you will know you OSAS is a fake doctrine of men." I believe I have answered that question sufficiently, but I will add to it in the hope my meaning is clearer. Jesus tells us that the way to Heaven (salvation) is narrow and leads to a straight gate, while the way to eternal destruction is very broad and easy to follow. In Scripture we are told that belief in Jesus as the Son of God is the key. We are also told that repentence will always accompany true, heartfelt belief as it is a personal declaration of that belief. That means a born-again Christian will repent of his sinful ways AND he will change them as he attempts to avoid sinning. He will still sin because he is still a sinner. But he will try his best not to sin.So, what about those sins committed after we have come to Jesus and have been born again in the Spirit of God? Will we be judged for them at some point? No, we will not. True believers will not be judged at all. Why? Because when we are born again into Christ, our spiritual account has His righteousness imputed to us. We will be found sinless after our deaths because our sins (all of them) were nailed to the cross with Jesus.Now, God knows His own. And once He has sealed them as His own, they are His alone. They can never be lost to Him for any reason.You maintain that God can and will enter into an individual and then, at some point in the future, leave that person due to a turning away from God and towards a sinful life filled with corruption. But you are wrong. Apparently you cannot see that, for God to do such a thing would be to corrupt His own perfect holiness. When He makes a promise, He always keeps that promise. If you read John 3:15-18 carefully, you will understand that Jesus is sspelling out the basics of the New Covenant between God and Man. Gid is making a promise to give salvation to all who believe in Jesus as the Son of God. But, as I said in an earlier post, simple belief is not enough. The belief in Jesus must be to the degree that satisfies God that the believer has true Faith that he will be saved by God eternally. That means he must develop a personal relationship with Jesus, and live a life of repentence of sin. But the infusion of the Holy Spirit gives every believer a comforter and guide to lead them away from sinful situations and towards their spiritual goals. In other words, when the Spirit enters a body, that person just naturally wants to do what God wants him to do, which is to love God and his neighbors.So C., if you cannot see this major difference now, I hope that one day you can. God will not enter into anyone who is undeserving of His free gift. And He will never lose anyone for any reason who is deserving of His free gift. And that is why once any person is saved by God gift, they remain saved for the rest of their lives and for all eternity.Rank Stranger

 

[Jordan]

Christians are believers... so therefore scriptures are directed at us... you are not able to understand what we are saying which in itself is not good... it's really sad. ... I posted this so many times... it's not even funny.QUOTE (thesuperjag @ May 3 2007, 04:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=10034
...the OSAS doctrine is so deceiving and it is made by man. And I don't need a scripture to support this common sense. For ensample, When I accepted Jesus into my heart, I became saved... Now if I turn my back on my Saviour and I became a wiccan (an example) and never want Him again...then I am going to say that I was never truly saved at all...therefore the OSAS doctrine needs to be discarded. ...

 

[Christina]

You answer the question through eyes of men not words of God thats the problem ... I will say again We have a part in the promise if we do not keep our side we break the promise not God ...I can not make you understand this ...Only God can ...every single one of us will have to know what God has warned us of if we are going to be an overcomer .... Many are called few are chosen ... Why because they will not overcome ... Why because they think they have no responsability they do not hear their fathers Words ... Just accept what men say and we will be fine ... You only hear half the word Your very post proves my point {quote}There is a major difference between believers and true Christians. Hey, even the devils believe, and they tremble. Belief in Jesus, all by itself, does not mean salvation. The poor Catholics believe in Jesus as they pray to Mary and hundreds of other man-made "saints" or kneel before idols as they offer prayers to God. They believe, but it is doubtful God will overlook or forgive their physical declaration of hatred for Him or their prayers to false gods. They could find the truth, but they freely choose to place their faith in man rather than directly with God.{quote} You can not judge their hearts yet you have to set yourself up as judge to make your doctrine work ... You can not declare because you think one follows a religion you believe to be false that they dont believe in Christ ... You can not have it both ways if one accepts Christ as there savior and repents according to OSAS doctrine they can then worship a rock and still be saved If you do not agree then you do not follow a OSAS doctrine so which is it? ... Do you even know what doctrine you are declaring is truth ?? I suggest you find out because OSAS means exactly that once you accept Christ you can do anything worship anything and your still saved are you sure you want to follow that doctrine?

 

[Christina]

A repost from LGFWhat is the OSAS doctrine if people are going push this on others as truth you had better know what it is!!!! read carefully this is OSAS Doctrine --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for the letter you faxed to me in response to my letter. I am reading your book slowly and carefully. There is a great deal to think about as I read. Before reading your book I thought there was nothing more for me to learn on the subject of OSAS [once saved always saved]. I used to belong to an Independent Baptist Church that preached the truth of OSAS. I once accepted this false teaching as truth. It was not until I heard a traveling evangelist teach that OSAS is a false doctrine that I even began to think about the subject. After hearing this man’s message I felt an intense urgency to know the truth about OSAS. I had such a strong desire to know the truth that I became almost obsessed with my need to know with certainty whether or not OSAS was true. I wouldn’t be satisfied with anything less than 100% confidence that this doctrine was either true or false. I decided to begin my study by reading every word of the Bible from beginning to end and taking notes on any verse that seemed to be even remotely related to the subject. After doing this I decided I should read some of the OSAS books to see if they had any insights that would be helpful. My study lasted for about 3 years. My study lasted this long because I could not be satisfied until I was absolutely certain about the truth of this doctrine. I have to admit that I desperately wanted OSAS to be true. My mind was totally biased in favor of OSAS. However, I never allowed my biases to stop me from honestly evaluating what the Bible taught on this subject. What I found was astounding. The Bible constantly used words like “IF.” I was unable to find even one shred of evidence that OSAS was true. Almost as amazing was the way the OSAS teachers distorted Bible passages to fit into the OSAS teaching. I found their distortions so unfounded and false that I could not even begin to comprehend how they could interpret passages the way they did. The answers to my prayers and the end of my mental torment came in a single day. I don’t know if it was God opening my eyes or a result of my study but after 3 years of study and agonizing uncertainty on this subject all of my false ideas about OSAS were swept away. I became absolutely certain that according to the teachings of Jesus and all of the apostles, OSAS was absolutely and totally false. I no longer had even the slightest doubt that it was completely false. As I began to talk to people who believed in OSAS I began to realize that none of them have even given the subject any real thought. Their ideas and explanations are shallow and without thought. I once asked a Baptist who had a position of authority this question: If a person is saved but then two years later they 1. Reject Jesus Christ 2. Become a Satan worshipper 3. Commit sins worse than Adolph Hitler 4. Live this way for the next 50 years 5. They go to their grave blaspheming God and declaring their hatred for Him and also declare their love and loyalty to Satan. I asked if they thought this hypothetical person was still saved and their answer was yes they are still saved. I knew then that the OSAS teachers have rejected all aspects of Biblical thinking. The Baptist Church I belonged to took a vote and I was unanimously voted out of fellowship for the heretical belief that a Christian can fall away and be eternally lost. I am at the point now where I find the OSAS teaching so repulsive that I cannot even listen to an OSAS teacher no matter what they are talking about. Everything they say is tainted by their OSAS doctrine. Additionally, because they do not believe the Christian is in a real battle, they are more like game show hosts who are trying to keep their audience entertained and interested in their show. Without the realization that we are in a real battle for our souls there is no incentive to take the Christian life seriously. Because no matter what they do they think in the end they’ll be in heaven. This deception greatly troubles me. Sin is more deadly and more deceptive then most Christians even begin to understand. Sin deludes our thinking. Sin can make us imagine that we really aren’t straying that far from Jesus. To me this is the most dangerous aspect of OSAS. If we do not think we can fall away then our fear of sin will be greatly diminished. Once our fear of sin is diminished we can be easily led down a path that takes us further and further away from God. Sin will keep us from seeing how far off the path we have gone. We will of course be aware of the fact we have gotten off the path but we will not be afraid because we think we can’t lose our salvation. Sin will delude us into thinking that we have only strayed a little when in fact we are being systematically led further and further away from God and the truth. This deadly two punch combination of (1) No fear of falling away to our eternal destruction; and (2) The deceptive power of sin leading us further and further away from God will lead us so far away from God and harden our hearts so much that eventually we have very little chance of ever repenting and getting back on the narrow road that leads to eternal life. We will have rejected Jesus Christ and the gospel and yet continue to think we are still Christians on our way to heaven. All of this makes me very sad. People that I know who honestly love God and sincerely want to follow Jesus have been disarmed by this false teaching. They don’t know there is a real battle going on. Without knowing there is a real battle going on it makes Satan’s job 1000 times easier. At some point in their life sin may tempt them. When this happens it will be so much easier for them to succumb to it. Many Christians sincerely desire to live a Godly life. However, we also live in the flesh so will always face temptation. Understanding the dangers of allowing sin to come into our life is essential to keeping the flesh under control. When we do not fear sin the Holy Spirit is unable to convict us of sin and the need to repent. At a weak moment in our life sin can grab us and slowly lead us further and further away from God. Sadly, we probably won’t even know that this is happening because we have shut down the Holy Spirit’s ability to convict us of our sin and the need to repent and get back on the right path. Thank you again for your book and your encouragement. I am learning a great deal from your book. I did not think there was anyone who understood this subject better than I do. But I am glad that God led me to you. You have taken my understanding of OSAS to a new level. I am gaining so many new insights about OSAS from your book. I also feel like I am not alone. It is a blessing to know there are others who understand this vital truth. Thank you so much for everything you are doing. You have been a great blessing to me. Sincerely, Jeff S. www.evangelicaloutreach.org/jeff.htm

 

[Rank Stranger]

Dearest C, you wrote,"I suggest you find out because OSAS means exactly that once you accept Christ you can do anything worship anything and your still saved are you sure you want to follow that doctrine?"You are sooo wrong with this belief. Once a true believer is in Christ, he is centered around Christ alone. His entire life is consumed with Christ. For you to say he can worship a stone, or anything else, is the disconnect in your reasoning. He cannot do any such thing simply because he is in Christ, and Christ alone. there is no desire to turn away, and no room for anything else. Christ alone, and Him crucified.I see in another of your posts that you were voted out of a Baptist congregation because of your unscriptural belief. I am not in any way judging you when I say that it appears that congregation did the right thing. You are denying God's promise, which makes you a heretic whether you want to believe that or not. They rightfully rejected you as such, as Paul (under the direct inspiration of God) directed them to do. You follow a false and non-Christian doctrine due to your own "wisdom", which makes you a wise fool according to God.Just think about the facts for one minute. An entire congregation votes against you, and they are all wrong while you are right. At the same time every single verse that you and Jordan use in a feeble attempt to prove OSAS is false actually, when taken in context, proves just the opposite. In those verses from Matthew Jesus tells us that we will know false Christians by their bad fruits, just as we will know true Christians by their good fruits. And yet both you and Jordan attempt to use those verses to prove that OSAS is somehow false. You claim that all "believers" are christians, when that is definitely not the case. You say some of those believers will be rejected by God when it is actually them who are rejecting God by following false doctrines.It is you who needs to find spiritual help. Right now you are on the broad pathway, and you need to find your way back to that narrow path of truth. I sincerely hope that you do.Rank Stranger

 

[Jordan]

QUOTE (Rank Stranger @ Mar 27 2009, 09:22 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71333
Dearest C, you wrote,"I suggest you find out because OSAS means exactly that once you accept Christ you can do anything worship anything and your still saved are you sure you want to follow that doctrine?"You are sooo wrong with this belief. Once a true believer is in Christ, he is centered around Christ alone. His entire life is consumed with Christ. For you to say he can worship a stone, or anything else, is the disconnect in your reasoning. He cannot do any such thing simply because he is in Christ, and Christ alone. there is no desire to turn away, and no room for anything else. Christ alone, and Him crucified.I see in another of your posts that you were voted out of a Baptist congregation because of your unscriptural belief. I am not in any way judging you when I say that it appears that congregation did the right thing. You are denying God's promise, which makes you a heretic whether you want to believe that or not. They rightfully rejected you as such, as Paul (under the direct inspiration of God) directed them to do. You follow a false and non-Christian doctrine due to your own "wisdom", which makes you a wise fool according to God.Just think about the facts for one minute. An entire congregation votes against you, and they are all wrong while you are right. At the same time every single verse that you and Jordan use in a feeble attempt to prove OSAS is false actually, when taken in context, proves just the opposite. In those verses from Matthew Jesus tells us that we will know false Christians by their bad fruits, just as we will know true Christians by their good fruits. And yet both you and Jordan attempt to use those verses to prove that OSAS is somehow false. You claim that all "believers" are christians, when that is definitely not the case. You say some of those believers will be rejected by God when it is actually them who are rejecting God by following false doctrines.It is you who needs to find spiritual help. Right now you are on the broad pathway, and you need to find your way back to that narrow path of truth. I sincerely hope that you do.Rank Stranger
So I could reject Him and be a wiccan, wizard, whatever... Am I Once Saved Always Saved? Or am I not saved? I am looking forward to the answer to my question.

 

[tomwebster]

QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 27 2009, 12:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71342
So I could reject Him and be a wiccan, wizard, whatever... Am I Once Saved Always Saved? Or am I not saved? I am looking forward to the answer to my question.
The problem is, they are just going to judge that you were not saved in the first place. OSAS people seem to think they can see your heart. They know those that are truly saved and those that are just pretending to be saved. It is far easier to see the splinter in someone else's eye then it is for them to see their own log. I am willing to wait and see which side of the fence they are on in the millennium.

 

[Christina]

You are right Tom and thats the problem that alone makes the doctrine a false because they make up excuses for the ones who do not fit doctrine which is the problem with mens doctrine they dont work so men have to make up reasons why they dont work Thats like saying I was married but now Im single there fore I was never really married ...

 

[Copper25]

Frankly, ether one is in the flock and in the sheep fold of Christ, or they were not in it at all, why?John 10:27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:John 10:28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.Not let me state this, NO TRUE BELEIVER is going to be part of those people in Matthew 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Why because Christ said "I never knew you" to all them and that means that NONE of them can or ever were His sheep. Why, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them" Christ said. All those claiming Christian, but WHO ARE NOT REALLY Christians, they will be the ones in that crowd, those that said"Lord, Lord", claiming to know him and have fellowship with Him but were not in fellowship with him.

 

[Rank Stranger]

QUOTE (Copper25 @ Mar 27 2009, 05:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71352
Frankly, ether one is in the flock and in the sheep fold of Christ, or they were not in it at all, why?John 10:27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:John 10:28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.Not let me state this, NO TRUE BELEIVER is going to be part of those people in Matthew 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Why because Christ said "I never knew you" to all them and that means that NONE of them can or ever were His sheep. Why, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them" Christ said. All those claiming Christian, but WHO ARE NOT REALLY Christians, they will be the ones in that crowd, those that said"Lord, Lord", claiming to know him and have fellowship with Him but were not in fellowship with him.
Well said, Copper, and thank you.Rank Stranger

 

[tomwebster]

QUOTE (Copper25 @ Mar 27 2009, 04:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71352
Frankly, ether one is in the flock and in the sheep fold of Christ, or they were not in it at all, why?John 10:27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:John 10:28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.Not let me state this, NO TRUE BELEIVER is going to be part of those people in Matthew 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Why because Christ said "I never knew you" to all them and that means that NONE of them can or ever were His sheep. Why, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them" Christ said. All those claiming Christian, but WHO ARE NOT REALLY Christians, they will be the ones in that crowd, those that said"Lord, Lord", claiming to know him and have fellowship with Him but were not in fellowship with him.
So Copper, what is apostasy?

 

[dan p]

QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 20 2009, 11:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71123
Remember they are many kinds of love that Christ gave to this world according to how He see fit in each situation. And as of now, we are saved by grace, and not according to the Law. But likewise today's people take saved by grace as in means "We can do whatever we want" God forbid. We have Christ and we can repent and ask forgiveness in the name of Jesus.

As of the title thing says. OSAS is a false doctrine. It is a doctrine of men.
1) Hi Jordan , I have to disagree with your assessment of saved always saved . And this is why .2) In Eph , For by grace are you SAVED .3) The Greek word for saved is in the Greek Perfect Tense , and means a PAST action with Continuing results . which means saved always saved .4) It is in the Greek Passive Voice , which means that God is doing that action of salvation to you and that you did NOT do it .5) It is also in the Greek Indictative Mood , which means that the action of salvation was a FACT , AND salvation depends on God and NOT US .