Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

[ProverbsInPink]

His chosen name tells me that he is an agent on assignment.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood.

If I'm understanding you correctly,I think that's a very strong implication.

 

[GeneZ]

If I'm understanding you correctly,I think that's a very strong implication.

It was meant to be.

Because.... The Word was made flesh.
And, the Word is God.

Some people have a history before being saved of enjoying being a contrarian.
But, when they carry that trait over into the realm of God's divine dynasphere?
They will cease playing games with flesh and blood.
Inspiration sneaks in, which they had set themselves up for, because of their refusal to deny their old ways.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves
and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but
whoever loses their life for me will find it." ​

​

Matthew 16:24-25​

 

[ProverbsInPink]

It was meant to be.

Because.... The Word was made flesh.
And, the Word is God.

Some people have a history before being saved of enjoying being a contrarian.
But, when they carry that trait over into the realm of God's divine dynasphere?
They will cease playing games with flesh and blood.
Inspiration sneaks in, which they had set themselves up for, because of their refusal to deny their old ways.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves ​

and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but ​

whoever loses their life for me will find it." ​

​

Matthew 16:24-25​

Please define dynasphere. Thank you.

 

[GeneZ]

Please define dynasphere. Thank you.

I did a Google search for Divine Dynasphere, and Google AI gave me the following:

AI Overview


The "divine dynasphere" is a theological term coined by Pastor R.B. Thieme Jr. to describe
a system of spiritual power and the plan for a believer's spiritual maturity, according to the teachings of the Grace Doctrine Church. It is a "power sphere" where believers store spiritual doctrine through consistent study and application of God's Word. This concept is sometimes visualized as a system of "gates" or a palace where a believer grows in spiritual maturity.

• Spiritual growth: The divine dynasphere is God's plan for believers to advance in spiritual maturity, which is achieved by learning and applying biblical doctrine.
• A "power sphere": The term is a compound of the Greek words dúnamis (power) and sphaíra (sphere). It represents the store of doctrinal knowledge that a believer builds in their soul.
• Jesus Christ as the prototype: According to this doctrine, Jesus Christ was the first recipient of the divine dynasphere, using it to fulfill God's plan during His earthly life.
• A system of "gates": The system can be understood as having "gates" that represent stages of spiritual progress, similar to a palace or a system of interlocking gates.
• A gift from God: The dynasphere is presented as a gift from God to believers, which they receive at their spiritual rebirth.

The divine dynasphere is a theological concept originating from the teachings of R. B. Thieme, Jr., a prominent pastor and theologian. It describes a spiritual system of power in which a believer lives and functions in a world hostile to God, empowering them to grow spiritually.

Core concepts

• A spiritual power system: The term "dynasphere" combines the Greek words dunamis (power) and sphaira (sphere or area), signifying a "power sphere". It is a system of divine power in which a believer can live and grow.
• The enabling power of the Holy Spirit: The divine dynasphere operates through the enabling power of God the Holy Spirit, which becomes resident in the believer's soul when they are in fellowship with God.
• A prototype in Jesus Christ: The divine dynasphere was first designed for the humanity of Jesus Christ, allowing Him to fulfill God's plan without sin. This model is now available to every believer.

---

How believers function within the divine dynasphere
Believers enter the divine dynasphere at the moment of their spiritual birth (salvation). To remain and advance within it, they must maintain a state of fellowship with God.

1. Maintaining fellowship: A believer loses the filling of the Holy Spirit and steps out of the dynasphere when they sin. To restore fellowship, they must simply confess their known sins to God.
2. Learning Bible doctrine: Consistently learning and metabolizing Bible doctrine is key to spiritual growth and advancing in the divine dynasphere.
3. The path to maturity: Thieme outlined a series of "gates" a believer passes through on the path to spiritual maturity while inside the dynasphere. These include:
   • The filling of the Holy Spirit.
   • Learning and applying doctrine.
   • Exercising personal love for God.
   • Practicing impersonal love for humanity.
   • Passing momentum tests in life.
4. Spiritual warfare: The divine dynasphere protects the believer from the influence of Satan's cosmic system and allows them to effectively engage in spiritual warfare.

---

The purpose of the divine dynasphere

The ultimate goal of functioning within the divine dynasphere is to live the Christian way of life, which glorifies Jesus Christ and brings the believer maximum happiness and divine blessings. It allows believers to live according to God's plan and reach spiritual maturity.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Your chosen name tells me you are determined to be inflexible in your opinion of this topic. I'll respect that.

God Bless.

It does reflect my stance, but that doesn't mean I'm not opened to debate with others or opened minded. We can disagree but you are still a sister or brother in Christ to me. The only way we learn is to have discourse and talk about these things. I used to be Pre-Trib. There is a reason I am no longer. If I am proved wrong on a subject and scripture is shown, with the Greek and even backed up by more information...I would hope the Holy Spirit would guide me to truth. I would ask the same for everyone else.

 

[No Pre-TB]

What the heck are you doing in 1 Peter?

I cited Philippians!

Go here, and see it means citizenship! Philippians 3:20 - Bible Gateway

In Christ .....

No sir, you cited Peter.

Here is what you posted in post #215
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold,
from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood
of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Peter 1:18-19

 

[No Pre-TB]

His chosen name tells me that he is an agent on assignment.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood.

I have not been disrespectful to you and I welcome your thought on the topics. You make me out to be something sinister. I don't know why that is. If you don't want to talk to me, that is fine, but I will continue in love and respect.

 

[David in NJ]

You agree?

Before the Church age?
Jews were elected for the New Earth kingdom in their resurrection.

In the Church age?
Christians are elected for Heaven!
Not, the New Earth promised the Jews.

Today.
In the church age, there are no longer Jews and Gentiles.
Our home is Heaven, not the New Earth.

Yet, Jews of the past dispensation have remained Jews.

i AGREE with this from God's Mouth:

the OT Jews were "elected" by God for the purposes of:
#1- the Lineage of the Promised Seed which is Christ
#2 - the Law/Moses that was our Tutor to direct us to Christ
#3 - to set apart, on earth and in Heaven = a nation for His Name

Today is the Day of MESSIAH/SALVATION where the NT Jews are SAVED by the Blood of the Promised Seed = JESUS the CRHIST
#1 - Lineage of the Promised SEED is FULFILLED = CHRIST
#2 - the Law/Moses is finished and a New Law, the Law of Christ, is Eternally Established in Heaven and on earth(saints).
#3 - to set apart, on earth as it is in Heaven, a nation for His Name = LORD Jesus Christ

Only those Jews, and Gentiles, who come to CHRIST are part of this Spiritual Nation in CHRIST
the rest of Israel has been set aside for Judgment

 

[GeneZ]

It does reflect my stance, but that doesn't mean I'm not opened to debate with others or opened minded. We can disagree but you are still a sister or brother in Christ to me. The only way we learn is to have discourse and talk about these things. I used to be Pre-Trib. There is a reason I am no longer. If I am proved wrong on a subject and scripture is shown, with the Greek and even backed up by more information...I would hope the Holy Spirit would guide me to truth. I would ask the same for everyone else.

Where is the Holy Spirit in your life?

Whom will lead you into all truth?

That is what concerns us about you.

Who (what) talked you out of the Pre-Trib wisdom?

That is what concerns us about you.

 

[GeneZ]

It does reflect my stance, but that doesn't mean I'm not opened to debate with others or opened minded. We can disagree but you are still a sister or brother in Christ to me. The only way we learn is to have discourse and talk about these things. I used to be Pre-Trib. There is a reason I am no longer. If I am proved wrong on a subject and scripture is shown, with the Greek and even backed up by more information...I would hope the Holy Spirit would guide me to truth. I would ask the same for everyone else.

You are being cruel....

Note what it tells us?

..... Therefore, comfort one another with these words.​

You are being a villain... Just to have to see how you think on this matter hurts and saddens.
Saddens us to think... How could you miss out?

What is motivating you?
It can not be the Holy Spirit.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout,
with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who
are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

​

You are being a mouthpiece for demonic thinking.

Why are you thinking that way?
It is like telling a worried mother that her missing child might have been killed.

That is what we ask about you..

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

Those are beautiful words and truth!​

 

[GeneZ]

Only those Jews, and Gentiles, who come to CHRIST are part of this Spiritual Nation in CHRIST
the rest of Israel has been set aside for Judgment

First off.
I was born a Jew.
I have seen too many Gentiles not knowing what they claim to know.

Jews today who believe in Jesus cease being a Jew, and become neither Jew nor Gentile.
They become the new creation in Christ.
Something that never existed before.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Where is the Holy Spirit in your life?

Whom will lead you into all truth?

That is what concerns us about you.

Who (what) talked you out of the Pre-Trib wisdom?

That is what concerns us about you.

The HS guides me and Christ guards me. I trust in His words. Without the HS in my life, where would I be? It is the downpayment and His seal on me until the day of his return.

Our Church was promoting for everyone to study the Bible in a year. I started to do that and re, re-read and read again the Bible over and over for a few years. After awhile, I started seeing things in the Bible, passages that conflicted with Pre-Trib theory. So, I started to write these down and do 3 things: One, validate them in scripture through scripture making sure there was no contradictions. Number 2: I asked questions logically to see if there were contradictions. Three: I was curious on what people before me thought. I studied the early churches beliefs and various commentaries (yes men are infallible) but it was to gain an understanding, not to persuade myself or my own thoughts to deceive myself. Then I began asking questions to people in my Church that are Pre-Trib, things I see as contradictions and looked for them to explain it hoping I missed or perhaps misunderstood the context and was wrong. But that never happened. I continued to grow in this through the grace of God and not of myself.

This is why I asked a question a few days back to you to understand your thought on the matter. I appreciate your concern for me, but I also have concerns for everyone else. That is a part of what love is.

 

[No Pre-TB]

You are being cruel....

Note what it tells us?

..... Therefore, comfort one another with these words.​

You are being a villain... Just to have to see how you think on this matter hurts and saddens.
Saddens us to think... How could you miss out?

What is motivating you?
It can not be the Holy Spirit.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout,
with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who
are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

​

You are being a mouthpiece for demonic thinking.

Why are you thinking that way?
It is like telling a worried mother that her missing child might have been killed.

That is what we ask about you..

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

Those are beautiful words and truth!​

I'm not sure how I am being cruel. That suggestion is hurtful to me.
I am being a villain as well? What evil have I done?
The HS motivates me my friend. I can't do anything of myself without it.

I am a demonic mouthpiece? I have not said anything negative to you. You continue to slander me with insults. I think at this time its better if we depart since you continue to speak this way to me. It's not in love and that is a concern! If you change your tune, feel free to reach out. God bless sir.

 

[David in NJ]

First off.
I was born a Jew.
I have seen too many Gentiles not knowing what they claim to know.

Jews today who believe in Jesus cease being a Jew, and become neither Jew nor Gentile.
They become the new creation in Christ.
Something that never existed before.

i am working - will respond later = ty

 

[GeneZ]

The HS guides me and Christ guards me. I trust in His words. Without the HS in my life, where would I be? It is the downpayment and His seal on me until the day of his return.

Our Church was promoting for everyone to study the Bible in a year. I started to do that and re, re-read and read again the Bible over and over for a few years. After awhile, I started seeing things in the Bible, passages that conflicted with Pre-Trib theory. So, I started to write these down and do 3 things: One, validate them in scripture through scripture making sure there was no contradictions. Number 2: I asked questions logically to see if there were contradictions. Three: I was curious on what people before me thought. I studied the early churches beliefs and various commentaries (yes men are infallible) but it was to gain an understanding, not to persuade myself or my own thoughts to deceive myself. Then I began asking questions to people in my Church that are Pre-Trib, things I see as contradictions and looked for them to explain it hoping I missed or perhaps misunderstood the context and was wrong. But that never happened. I continued to grow in this through the grace of God and not of myself.

This is why I asked a question a few days back to you to understand your thought on the matter. I appreciate your concern for me, but I also have concerns for everyone else. That is a part of what love is.

You need what at one time I desperately needed.
A pastor who can really teach, competently.

One without the gift of teacher, can try reading the Bible for himself, and never truly understand much of what is needed.


May I suggest you look into this?

(They never ask for money)

https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3



R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries is a grace ministry and operates entirely on voluntary contributions. There is no price list for any of our material. No money is requested. When gratitude for the Word of God motivates a believer to give, he has the privilege of contributing to the dissemination of Bible doctrine.


grace and peace 1

 

[David in NJ]

You need what at one time I desperately needed.
A pastor who can really teach, competently.

One without the gift of teacher, can try reading the Bible for himself, and never truly understand much of what is needed.


May I suggest you look into this?

(They never ask for money)

https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3



R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries is a grace ministry and operates entirely on voluntary contributions. There is no price list for any of our material. No money is requested. When gratitude for the Word of God motivates a believer to give, he has the privilege of contributing to the dissemination of Bible doctrine.


grace and peace 1

You need what at one time I desperately needed.
A pastor who can really teach, competently.

One without the gift of teacher, can try reading the Bible for himself, and never truly understand much of what is needed.


May I suggest you look into this?

(They never ask for money)

https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3



R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries is a grace ministry and operates entirely on voluntary contributions. There is no price list for any of our material. No money is requested. When gratitude for the Word of God motivates a believer to give, he has the privilege of contributing to the dissemination of Bible doctrine.


grace and peace 1

Gene, you would rather be taught by men/religion then by the Holy Spirit thru the Holy Scriptures???

There is a better WAY = JESUS said so............Matthew 16:13-19

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

14So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

 

[GeneZ]

Gene, you would rather be taught by men/religion then by the Holy Spirit thru the Holy Scriptures???

You are now trying to teach me something?

Well, when did you stop being a man?

 

[GeneZ]

I'm not sure how I am being cruel. That suggestion is hurtful to me.
I am being a villain as well? What evil have I done?
The HS motivates me my friend. I can't do anything of myself without it.

I am a demonic mouthpiece? I have not said anything negative to you. You continue to slander me with insults. I think at this time its better if we depart since you continue to speak this way to me. It's not in love and that is a concern! If you change your tune, feel free to reach out. God bless sir.

Peter needed to hear a similar thing from Jesus...

 

[David in NJ]

You are now trying to teach me something?

Well, when did you stop being a man?

Am i teaching? or am i pointing you to JESUS and the Gospel

Gene, you may be older then me, i am 62, and i just came home from a very hard day of dangerous work.

Good Night my brother in Christ

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Am i teaching? or am i pointing you to JESUS and the Gospel

Gene, you may be older then me, i am 62, and i just came home from a very hard day of dangerous work.

Good Night my brother in Christ

You,we,all ,serve the kingdom.
Sleep well brother. May God continue to protect you in life and especially while doing your very dangerous work.



And @GeneZ ,
Gene, You can always learn something. Unbelievers can teach us something,as well as fellow Christians.The Holy Spirit leads us to understanding. And leads the teachers he sees fit.
We too are teachers,as he wills.

We are also teachers in how we behave toward one another,and others. Be they members of the Body of Christ or otherwise.