Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

[GeneZ]

Can you provide scripture that says our home will be in Heaven and not on the New restored Earth?

Philippians 3:19-21

Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. ​

Their mind is set on earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await ​

a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring ​

everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his​

glorious body.​

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​

.....​

 

[GeneZ]

Can you provide scripture that says our home will be in Heaven and not on the New restored Earth?

Part ll.

​

“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions;
if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also." John 14:1-3

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​

grace and peace!

 

[No Pre-TB]

Philippians 3:19-21

Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. ​

Their mind is set on earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await ​

a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring ​

everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his​

glorious body.​

​

​

.....​

Out citizenship, not our home. Some translate it as conversation in Heaven. It demonstrates the government and laws which we abide by being His. It's an identifier that sets us apart from the world. He is contrasting "them" from "us". He is not saying our literal home is in Heaven, the throne of God.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Part ll.

​

“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions;
if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also." John 14:1-3

​

​

grace and peace!

This is a better one. Where is Christ going when he receives us to Him? Specifically, what is he going to prepare for us and where will it be?

 

[Taken]

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1–12, Paul says the son of perdition, the Anti-Christ, cannot be revealed until the Restrainer is removed. The anti-Christ spirit has been at work for thousands of years, but the Restrainer is preventing it from culminating in the appearance of the Anti-Christ. There are several views on who or what the Restrainer is, but the two most likely candidates are the Church and the Holy Spirit.
If the Restrainer is the Church, it means the Church must be taken out of the way (raptured) before the Anti-Christ is revealed.

The church is Raptured…
Because…The Lamb of God has ALREADY …
MADE that individual WHOLE;
body, soul, spirit…
The Lamb of God (who’s Wrath is revealed First… Has NO anger Against they MADE Whole

The next is the Wrath of the Devil, which the “Saved are escaped / delivered from experiencing the Devils Wrath.

The last id God Wrath, which the Saved are escaped / delivered from experiencing Gods Wrath.

The Great Tribulation is upon the Whole World, Because of their “unrighteousness”…
During the Trib, some Will Believe and willingly give their body unto death That they become Bodily Dead And soul saved (BY God) And they bodily risen with a new body , quickened spirit, saved soul (made whole) First Resurrection.

I think it possible the “restrainer” is primarily Michael… in conjunction with the Church and Likely by, through, of the Holy Spirit.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Out citizenship, not our home. Some translate it as conversation in Heaven. It demonstrates the government and laws which we abide by being His. It's an identifier that sets us apart from the world. He is contrasting "them" from "us". He is not saying our literal home is in Heaven, the throne of God.

A saved “earthly man’s home” will always be Earth… and how it is in Heaven Shall be How it Shall be On Earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GeneZ]

Out citizenship, not our home. Some translate it as conversation in Heaven. It demonstrates the government and laws which we abide by being His. It's an identifier that sets us apart from the world. He is contrasting "them" from "us". He is not saying our literal home is in Heaven, the throne of God.

There's always somebody in the crowd.
You are now on record.

You get the prize for nice trize.

 

[GeneZ]

This is a better one. Where is Christ going when he receives us to Him? Specifically, what is he going to prepare for us and where will it be?

You are really determined to swerve us off of the road....

 

[No Pre-TB]

There's always somebody in the crowd.
You are now on record.

You get the prize for nice trize.

Im not sure why you say that. I told you, some translations have the word as conversation. That’s found in the KJV as an example. I also explained the writer in its context was talking about the difference between believers and others.

 

[No Pre-TB]

You are really determined to swerve us off of the road....

Because I asked a question? You posted a verse that said Christ will receive us and we go where he goes. So, where is He going and what did he prepare for us? Im asking you so that I may understand your thoughts. How is that determination to cause you to stumble? That’s awful to say that. At the very least, find out my reasoning before you make statements like that.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

It is because of this verse here

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (2 Thess. 2:3-8)

I used to believe in a pretrib rapture but if it was true then what does this verse mean then?

“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” Romans 8:1

 

[No Pre-TB]

“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” Romans 8:1

Condemnation is a final judgment before a judge which when a sentence is passed, there’s no more chance for the offender to walk away. That is not tribulation. In Revelations context, God gives people chances up to the door shutting in Rev 15. Therefore, none of that is condemnation. That falls in the bowls where we have an example as stones falling from Heaven about the weight of a talent. The meaning is the person is literally being stoned from Heaven as their sentence has come to a conclusion and they’re found guilty. This is why people can escape judgment till the last day, the same day as the resurrection

But that verse has a deeper meaning. Will you or I or whomever it is be in Christ Jesus when he comes? It’s not just about that now, but till the end after dealing with all the things that will happen on the Earth. This is why he said if that servant goes and eats and drinks with the drunkards, he’ll confess I never knew you. We must be resilient during difficult times of stress and anxiety

 

[marks]

This is why people can escape judgment till the last day, the same day as the resurrection

Some, perhaps, but not all.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 KJV
10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

These will be ones in that day who, because they didn't want truth, God sends them strong delusion, so they believe the lie, that they will be condemned, even though judgment day isn't come yet. But there are given over to deception being given over to condemnation.

Much love!

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Condemnation is a final judgment before a judge which when a sentence is passed, there’s no more chance for the offender to walk away. That is not tribulation. In Revelations context, God gives people chances up to the door shutting in Rev 15. Therefore, none of that is condemnation. That falls in the bowls where we have an example as stones falling from Heaven about the weight of a talent. The meaning is the person is literally being stoned from Heaven as their sentence has come to a conclusion and they’re found guilty. This is why people can escape judgment till the last day, the same day as the resurrection

But that verse has a deeper meaning. Will you or I or whomever it is be in Christ Jesus when he comes? It’s not just about that now, but till the end after dealing with all the things that will happen on the Earth. This is why he said if that servant goes and eats and drinks with the drunkards, he’ll confess I never knew you. We must be resilient during difficult times of stress and anxiety

If we are Saved from the condemnation of our sins as the redeemed in Christ, it does not comport we would be condemned to suffer God's wrath against the Earth during the Great Tribulation. Not after he saved us from his wrath as unrepentant sinners.

Revelation 12 and chapter 13 describe Satan fury due to his fall more than Gods during the Great Tribulation.

 

[GeneZ]

Im not sure why you say that. I told you, some translations have the word as conversation. That’s found in the KJV as an example. I also explained the writer in its context was talking about the difference between believers and others.

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold,
from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood
of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Peter 1:18-19​

'Conversation' in the KJV, means means, - "way of life."

"From your vain conversation" means "from your useless, empty, or pointless way of life, handed down through tradition". In a religious context, it refers to a lifestyle that is devoid of true purpose and meaning, often characterized by idle talk, gossip, or adherence to traditions that lack divine substance. The phrase suggests that this way of life is a futile and worthless inheritance that needs to be set aside.

 

[No Pre-TB]

If we are Saved from the condemnation of our sins as the redeemed in Christ, it does not comport we would be condemned to suffer God's wrath against the Earth during the Great Tribulation. Not after he saved us from his wrath as unrepentant sinners.

Revelation 12 and chapter 13 describe Satan fury due to his fall more than Gods during the Great Tribulation.

God's wrath is not tribulation. Don't take my word for it, do a Koine greek word search between the 2.
Thlipsis does not equal Ogre or Thumos. Thlipsis, which is tribulation is never God's wrath anywhere in the Bible or outside texts. Everytime thlipsis is used, we endure it. God's wrath is always his "out poured anger" in the OT. In the NT, his out poured anger is found ONLY in the bowls.

This is why its mentioned in places like:
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

If it was God's wrath and they were condemned, why does their repenting matter? It matters because they still have a chance to change. That's not condemnation aka final judgment.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:

How does the Man of sin make war against the saints during God's final condemnation?

Rev 14: If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,

Why are we given a choice to not worship the beast if we have no choice and we are already in his final wrath and there is no chance for change? If those who take the mark endure the wine of the wrath of God, then what is this period they are in that isnt the wrath of God?

 

[No Pre-TB]

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, ​

from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood ​

of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Peter 1:18-19​

'Conversation' in the KJV, means means, - "way of life."

"From your vain conversation" means "from your useless, empty, or pointless way of life, handed down through tradition". In a religious context, it refers to a lifestyle that is devoid of true purpose and meaning, often characterized by idle talk, gossip, or adherence to traditions that lack divine substance. The phrase suggests that this way of life is a futile and worthless inheritance that needs to be set aside.

Yes, I agree with the summary you posted of 1 Peter 1:18-19.

You earlier posted:
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Conversation:
KJV: conversation
NASB: citizenship

From politeuomai; a community, i.e. (abstractly) citizenship (figuratively) -- conversation.

to behave as a citizen (figuratively)

As I said earlier, the definition of the word and its usage demonstrates we are citizens of Heaven (figuratively) but that doesnt mean we live in Heaven literally. I take my time with scripture and though we may not see eye to eye on some things, I'm not here to deceive you. Youre always free to look at the Greek yourself

 

[ProverbsInPink]

God's wrath is not tribulation. Don't take my word for it, do a Koine greek word search between the 2.
Thlipsis does not equal Ogre or Thumos. Thlipsis, which is tribulation is never God's wrath anywhere in the Bible or outside texts. Everytime thlipsis is used, we endure it. God's wrath is always his "out poured anger" in the OT. In the NT, his out poured anger is found ONLY in the bowls.

This is why its mentioned in places like:
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

If it was God's wrath and they were condemned, why does their repenting matter? It matters because they still have a chance to change. That's not condemnation aka final judgment.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:

How does the Man of sin make war against the saints during God's final condemnation?

Rev 14: If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,

Why are we given a choice to not worship the beast if we have no choice and we are already in his final wrath and there is no chance for change? If those who take the mark endure the wine of the wrath of God, then what is this period they are in that isnt the wrath of God?

Your chosen name tells me you are determined to be inflexible in your opinion of this topic. I'll respect that.

God Bless.

 

[GeneZ]

Yes, I agree with the summary you posted of 1 Peter 1:18-19.

You earlier posted:
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Conversation:
KJV: conversation
NASB: citizenship

From politeuomai; a community, i.e. (abstractly) citizenship (figuratively) -- conversation.

to behave as a citizen (figuratively)

As I said earlier, the definition of the word and its usage demonstrates we are citizens of Heaven (figuratively) but that doesnt mean we live in Heaven literally. I take my time with scripture and though we may not see eye to eye on some things, I'm not here to deceive you. Youre always free to look at the Greek yourself

What the heck are you doing in 1 Peter?

I cited Philippians!

Go here, and see it means citizenship! Philippians 3:20 - Bible Gateway

In Christ .....

 

[GeneZ]

Your chosen name tells me you are determined to be inflexible in your opinion of this topic. I'll respect that.

God Bless.

His chosen name tells me that he is an agent on assignment.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood.