Why its important to keep the Sabbath

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BarneyFife

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<History does not shift like a light switch>, but the Grailhunter, thinking he is shifting his searchlight across history, lost perception and discernment between past and present and started shaking like a reed in the winds of time. Take the above, the Gailhunter's three paragraphs, just to show,

According to the Grailhunter <because they were still in the Old Covenant ... observing the Sabbath during Christ’s ministry ... there is no surprise there.> Astounding revelation, <in the Old Covenant ... during Christ’s ministry>! If <because they were still in the Old Covenant> and they still were <with God>, one wonders what difference it would make whether one is still in the Old or still in the New Covenant? Might not both supposed <covenants>, have received the SAME BENIFITS since both were <during Christ’s ministry> and both supposed Covenants <were when the Sabbath was the only holy day of the week>, and both supposed Covenants were BEFORE ... <sometime in the 1st century [Sic.] there was a transitional period that shifted (from the Sabbath) to the Lord’s day on Sunday>. --- WHAT A MESS!

So, according to Grailhunter, <sometime in the 1st century that shifted to the Lord’s day on Sunday, particularly when the Christian ministry shifted to the Gentiles and Jewish-Christian sect died out.>

Now, <There was in fact a transitional period were [Sic. <where> or <when>] the Sabbath was the only holy day of the week, but sometime in the 1st century that shifted to the Lord’s day on Sunday,> says the Grailhunter.

BUT, for absolutely sure was <there> no <transitional period ... sometime in the 1st century that shifted to the Lord’s day on Sunday>, nor, for absolutely sure, was <there> any <period particularly when (or <where>) sometime in the 1st century the Christian ministry shifted to the Gentiles and the Jewish-Christian sect died out.> We all know that, for historical fact. So what here (and nowhere later) must be lifted out and put in proper perspective, is the Grailhunter's own presumed, 'fact', that <There was in fact a transitional period where the Sabbath was the only holy day of the week, but sometime in the 1st century that shifted to the Lord’s day>. Grailhunter in fact supplements his own drawn 'fact' with, stating as fact, in the <first century the Sabbath was the only holy day of the week> and therefore it, the Sabbath, had to have been the-Lord’s-Day-on-the-Sabbath-which sometime somewhere in the 1st century shifted to the Lord’s Day on SABBATH BY THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST JESUS ON IT.

That, the Jews from the nature of the case, could never have gone along with.

The whole "shift" business makes me wonder what this verse is even supposed to have meant:

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

.
 

Grailhunter

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That is always what you do, and always do halve. In fact Sunday is the weekly holy day for Christians---Roman Catholic Christians, which for them, is the weekly holy day, which THEY sanctify, which nowhere is found in the Word of GOD, is the weekly holy day for Bible-Christians.


Well you got one thing right, but only because you do not understand the history of it…..without that you have half the knowledge and understanding….LOL

The shift to the Lord’s day is not in the scriptures because the New Testament documents the first 65 years of Christianity. Christianity did not stop at the end of the biblical period and God did not stop interacting with people at the end of the biblical period. And God did not stop teaching a higher set morals at the end of the biblical period…

If you going to hold to a “Bible only” religion…..LOL The scriptures do not put a moratorium on polygamy, concubines, slavery, sacrifices, or require a wedding ceremony to be married. Quite a religion you have going there buddy.

As far as the Catholics establishing Sunday as the Lord’s Day, that is completely wrong. The shift to observing the resurrection on Sunday and defining it as the Lord’s Day occurs in the 1st century and after the Jewish Christians died out around the 1st century only Jews were observing the Jewish Saturday Sabbath. Of course there is more to the story, after the Temple was destroyed and Jerusalem was burnt the Romans outlawed their religion and they were on the run.
 

Grailhunter

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Absolutely! THE MASTER-LIE OF ANTICHRIST!
Now, YOU, are The Grailhunter, YOU, paste here, this thing YOU claim is <the Lord’s day on Sunday, particularly... sometime in the 1st century>. I assume you refer to the 'third manuscript' of Justin Martyr's Apology.

I challenge YOU in the Name of the Living GOD AND JUDGE OF ALL MEN and "every word from the mouth of each" : PUT THE EVIDENCE OF THIS THING WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!


Like I said the Lord’s Day is not in the scriptures because the New Testament only records the first 65 years of Christianity. But surviving early Christian writings discuss the Lord’s Day.

But every Lord’s day do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.
(Didache Chapter XIV.11 —Christian Assembly on the Lord’s Day. 14 [70 AD]).

Ignatius of Antioch
If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [110 AD]).

Ignatius of Antioch
During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [155 AD]).


Origen 185-263 AD
If it be objected to us on this subject that we ourselves are accustomed to observe certain days, as for example the Lord’s day, the Preparation, the Passover, or Pentecost, I have to answer, that to the perfect Christian, who is ever in his thoughts, words, and deeds serving his natural Lord, God the Word, all his days are the Lord’s, and he is always keeping the Lord’s day.(Origen Against Celsus. Book 8 Chapter XXII.)

Cyprian Born ? died 258 AD
For because the eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, was to be that on which the Lord should rise again, and should quicken us, and give us circumcision of the spirit, the eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, and the Lord’s day, went before in the figure; which figure ceased when by and by the truth came, and spiritual circumcision was given to us.
(Epistle LVIII.2 To Fidus, on the Baptism of Infants. 4)

This is a short list….
 

Grailhunter

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<History does not shift like a light switch>, but the Grailhunter, thinking he is shifting his searchlight across history, lost perception and discernment between past and present and started shaking like a reed in the winds of time. Take the above, the Gailhunter's three paragraphs, just to show,

According to the Grailhunter <because they were still in the Old Covenant ... observing the Sabbath during Christ’s ministry ... there is no surprise there.> Astounding revelation, <in the Old Covenant ... during Christ’s ministry>! If <because they were still in the Old Covenant> and they still were <with God>, one wonders what difference it would make whether one is still in the Old or still in the New Covenant? Might not both supposed <covenants>, have received the SAME BENIFITS since both were <during Christ’s ministry> and both supposed Covenants <were when the Sabbath was the only holy day of the week>, and both supposed Covenants were BEFORE ... <sometime in the 1st century [Sic.] there was a transitional period that shifted (from the Sabbath) to the Lord’s day on Sunday>. --- WHAT A MESS!

So, according to Grailhunter, <sometime in the 1st century that shifted to the Lord’s day on Sunday, particularly when the Christian ministry shifted to the Gentiles and Jewish-Christian sect died out.>

Now, <There was in fact a transitional period were [Sic. <where> or <when>] the Sabbath was the only holy day of the week, but sometime in the 1st century that shifted to the Lord’s day on Sunday,> says the Grailhunter.

BUT, for absolutely sure was <there> no <transitional period ... sometime in the 1st century that shifted to the Lord’s day on Sunday>, nor, for absolutely sure, was <there> any <period particularly when (or <where>) sometime in the 1st century the Christian ministry shifted to the Gentiles and the Jewish-Christian sect died out.> We all know that, for historical fact. So what here (and nowhere later) must be lifted out and put in proper perspective, is the Grailhunter's own presumed, 'fact', that <There was in fact a transitional period where the Sabbath was the only holy day of the week, but sometime in the 1st century that shifted to the Lord’s day>. Grailhunter in fact supplements his own drawn 'fact' with, stating as fact, in the <first century the Sabbath was the only holy day of the week> and therefore it, the Sabbath, had to have been the-Lord’s-Day-on-the-Sabbath-which sometime somewhere in the 1st century shifted to the Lord’s Day on SABBATH BY THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST JESUS ON IT.

That, the Jews from the nature of the case, could never have gone along with.

Since I cannot understand your point here I am going to assume that it does not make any sense to anyone else. But I do think it is a reflection of the junk that is running wild between your ears.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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The whole "shift" business makes me wonder what this verse is even supposed to have meant:

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

<The whole "shift" business> from eternity has been God's business "by the Son in these last days". The Sabbath "shifted" FROM "in the beginning" of God's making, blessing, sanctifying, finishing and RESTING "on the Seventh Day", TO God's making, blessing, sanctifying, finishing and RESTING "BY THE SON", "BY THE EXCEEDING GREATNESS OF HIS POWER WHEN HE RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD", "for the testimony of Jesus Christ.... in the kingdom of Jesus Christ... for the word of God... on the LORD'S DAY... and a great Voice was heard, as of a trumpet... Today, if you hear His Voice, harden not the heart, for God having spoken of no other day after, as soon as Jesus had given them rest (Katapausis tou Theou), there remains therefore a Sabbath Day of rest for the People of God. Because the man that is entered into rest in Jesus Christ, that man also ceases from his own works as God from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest the Rest of God in Jesus Christ, lest anyone fall after the same example of unbelief (as the first man Adam did).,
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Like I said the Lord’s Day is not in the scriptures because the New Testament only records the first 65 years of Christianity. But surviving early Christian writings discuss the Lord’s Day.

But every Lord’s day do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.
(Didache Chapter XIV.11 —Christian Assembly on the Lord’s Day. 14 [70 AD]).
I challenged you about the manuscript of Justin Martyr containing the word 'Sunday' which Christians ALLEGEDLY worshiped on, not about the manuscripts that ALLEGEDLY contain 'the Lord's', _'day'_ which Christians ALLEGEDLY worshiped on, the 'Teaching' and Ignatius' 'Letter to the Magnesians' ET AL. I'll keep on waiting because my challenge still stands unchallenged.

By the way, I'm inviting the Seventh day Adventists as well to answer my challenge.
 
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Grailhunter

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I challenged you about the manuscript of Justin Martyr containing the word 'Sunday' which Christians ALLEGEDLY worshiped on, not about the manuscripts that ALLEGEDLY contain 'the Lord's', _'day'_ which Christians ALLEGEDLY worshiped on, the 'Teaching' and Ignatius' 'Letter to the Magnesians' ET AL. I'll keep on waiting because my challenge still stands unchallenged.

By the way, I'm inviting the Seventh day Adventists as well to answer my challenge.

Not sure of what your getting at or your interest in Justin Martyr but here it is.

By the mid-2nd century, Justin Martyr wrote in his apologies about the cessation of Sabbath observance and the celebration of the first day of the week (not as a day of rest, but as a day for gathering to worship):

And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things, Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying, Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And those who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows, and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds, and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world, and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn [Saturday]; and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them those things, which we have submitted for your consideration.

There are some unknowledgeable Christians that take exception with the day called Sunday being a Christian holy day. It is not that much of a surprise that Christians would pick the day that Christ resurrected as a holy day. It pretty much changed the world.

Saturday….Sunday….the days of the week are named after Greco-Roman gods, just as the months and planets. Saturday after the Greco-Roman god Saturn who was the god of agriculture and harvest, and in astrology. Sunday after the Greco-Roman sun god or Apollo. So when the early Christians....who where Gentile-Christians wrote on these topic by no surprise they used the terms they were accustomed to for the days of the week. Since we have no example of Jewish-Christian writings outside of the biblical era the Hebrew words for the days of the week do not appear in any of the early writing.

The Hebrew names of the days of the week are numerical: Sunday - Yom rishon- "first day", Monday -Yom shani- "second day", Tuesday -Yom shlishi- "third day", Wednesday -Yom reveci- "fourth day", Thursday -Yom khamshi- "fifth day", Friday -Yom shishi- "sixth day" and cErev shabbat -"eve of Sabbath", Saturday -Yom ha- ... But these words only appear in the Old Testament.

The writers of the New Testament just assigned the days of the week numbers. So Sunday would be referred to as the first day of the week.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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Not sure of what your getting at or your interest in Justin Martyr but here it is.

By the mid-2nd century, Justin Martyr wrote in his apologies about the cessation of Sabbath observance and the celebration of the first day of the week (not as a day of rest, but as a day for gathering to worship):

And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things, Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying, Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And those who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows, and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds, and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world, and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn [Saturday]; and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them those things, which we have submitted for your consideration.
That's it!
Now PLACE THAT - THIS - a photostat copy of it, of course, 'MANUSCRIPT'; THAT IS WHAT I AM CHALLENGING YOU TO DO. And give the place it can be viewed by anyone who might be able to go to that place and photograph THIS (alleged) existing, archived, physical PIECE OF 'paper' it is WRITTEN ON : IN HAND WRITING of whatever scribe or something, or better still, IN HAND WRITING of the Justin who lived in the first and second centuries CE AND WROTE IT. Do this, please.
 

Grailhunter

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That's it!
Now PLACE THAT - THIS - a photostat copy of it, of course, 'MANUSCRIPT'; THAT IS WHAT I AM CHALLENGING YOU TO DO. And give the place it can be viewed by anyone who might be able to go to that place and photograph THIS (alleged) existing, archived, physical PIECE OF 'paper' it is WRITTEN ON : IN HAND WRITING of whatever scribe or something, or better still, IN HAND WRITING of the Justin who lived in the first and second centuries CE AND WROTE IT. Do this, please.

Like the original books of the Bible, people would love to have the originals….it is just something that does not happen.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Like the original books of the Bible, people would love to have the originals….it is just something that does not happen.

Ja, people would love to have the originals….it is just something that does not happen.
Correct! But at least one 'manuscript' copy of 'the originals' happened, and that, still exists. There is this one case, where NO 'copies' exist. But lo! The 'original' EXISTS, IS REAL, HAPPENED, the one in hand - because it was FAKED and is a HOAX GOING ON -- your Justin Sunday - Saturday 'manuscript' IN THE VATICAN ARCHIVES -- WHERE ELSE!?
 
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Grailhunter

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Ja, people would love to have the originals….it is just something that does not happen.
Correct! But at least one 'manuscript' copy of 'the originals' happened, and that, still exists. There is this one case, where NO 'copies' exist. But lo! The 'original' EXISTS, IS REAL, HAPPENED, the one in hand - because it was FAKED and is a HOAX GOING ON -- your Justin Sunday - Saturday 'manuscript' IN THE VATICAN ARCHIVES -- WHERE ELSE!?
When you are dealing with history it is all about confidence levels.
I am not sure what your concern with Justin’s manuscripts are but as far as confidence levels he was not contradicting anything that history or the other early writers where not confirming.

Sunday was the Lord’s Day from the even before the end of the 1st century. If you are thinking that Emperor Constantine changed the Christian day of worship to Sunday that is totally false. Christ set that when He resurrected on Sunday.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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When you are dealing with history it is all about confidence levels.
I am not sure what your concern with Justin’s manuscripts are but as far as confidence levels he was not contradicting anything that history or the other early writers where not confirming.

Sunday was the Lord’s Day from the even before the end of the 1st century. If you are thinking that Emperor Constantine changed the Christian day of worship to Sunday that is totally false. Christ set that when He resurrected on Sunday.

I am not a SDA so I am not confused about Constantine. Don't run away. Truth is, nothing is wrong with Justin Martyr's real manuscripts. I am also not confused LIKE YOU ARE, about that. I am challenging you and anyone to proof the Apology's THIRD 'manuscript', not the two existing ones. Capito?
 

Grailhunter

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I am not a SDA so I am not confused about Constantine. Don't run away. Truth is, nothing is wrong with Justin Martyr's real manuscripts. I am also not confused LIKE YOU ARE, about that. I am challenging you and anyone to proof the Apology's THIRD 'manuscript', not the two existing ones. Capito?

But I am not concerned about Justin's third manuscript....It is called not taking the bait.
But if you have a point....lets hear it.
 

1stCenturyLady

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All you and Grailhunter and the rest of the Antinomian crowd need do to convince us that Christians are indeed free from the "old law" that says "thou shalt have no other gods before Me" is simply publicly state we may worship Satan. It's really that simple.

(The reason you all refuse to say it is because you know full well you don't really believe we're free, but you have no choice to continue to insist we are to get around keeping the weekly Sabbath holy as specified.)
Though I enjoy going to the Adventist church on Saturday, and a church that is known for going through the Bible, book by book on Sundays, neither is because of law, but because I enjoy fellowship. When we became free from the law, it was when we became free from sin (the need for the law). The 4th commandment was the sign of the first covenant that could only be kept the way it was written by the letter. When Jesus came and died, he shed His blood that cleansed us from all unrighteousness. So rightly so, the new sign of the new covenant represented said blood, the Cup of the New Covenant.

The Ten Commandments are for sinners. Christians are not sinners, but children of God. 1 John 3:1. Without the Spirit of Christ sinners must keep the letter of the law. True Christians are filled with the Spirit and abide in Christ which is the spirit of the old Sabbath law. No one seems to know what the spirit of the Sabbath is, so I just told you. Christians do not keep the letter of the law because we are no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit. Romans 7:5-7.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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But I am not concerned about Justin's third manuscript....It is called not taking the bait.
But if you have a point....lets hear it.
Man YOU rely on this bogus early Christian writing for advocating Sunday worship. YOU HAVE NO SINGLE CASE OR REFERENCE TO A CASE OF WORSHIP ON SUNDAY BY EARLY CHRISTIANS! NONE for 1500 years none! The Antichrist FOOLED the Church up until today, and judged by your mental capacity to discern his deception, will for ever go on to FOOL (all) true believers in Jesus Christ.
 

Grailhunter

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Man YOU rely on this bogus early Christian writing for advocating Sunday worship. YOU HAVE NO SINGLE CASE OR REFERENCE TO A CASE OF WORSHIP ON SUNDAY BY EARLY CHRISTIANS! NONE for 1500 years none! The Antichrist FOOLED the Church up until today, and judged by your mental capacity to discern his deception, will for ever go on to FOOL (all) true believers in Jesus Christ.

How can you be so misinformed. There are quite a few early christian writings about the Lord's Day and Sunday....Have you not looked into this a little?
 

Phoneman777

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Though I enjoy going to the Adventist church on Saturday, and a church that is known for going through the Bible, book by book on Sundays, neither is because of law, but because I enjoy fellowship. When we became free from the law, it was when we became free from sin (the need for the law). The 4th commandment was the sign of the first covenant that could only be kept the way it was written by the letter. When Jesus came and died, he shed His blood that cleansed us from all unrighteousness. So rightly so, the new sign of the new covenant represented said blood, the Cup of the New Covenant.

The Ten Commandments are for sinners. Christians are not sinners, but children of God. 1 John 3:1. Without the Spirit of Christ sinners must keep the letter of the law. True Christians are filled with the Spirit and abide in Christ which is the spirit of the old Sabbath law. No one seems to know what the spirit of the Sabbath is, so I just told you. Christians do not keep the letter of the law because we are no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit. Romans 7:5-7.
So, is the Christian free to disregard the 1st commandment and worship Satan?
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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How can you be so misinformed. There are quite a few early christian writings about the Lord's Day and Sunday....Have you not looked into this a little?
AGAIN: Place them here. YOU CANNOT BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ANY - be informed!
Again: There never in the early Christian times - until the 4th and 5th centuries, and until now, have been any early Christian M.A.N.U.S.C.R.I.P.T. that 1. contained either 'saturday' or 'sunday' Greek or Latin; OR, 2. contained the Greek of Revelation 1:10 the PHRASE - two words - 'kyriakeh hehmera' -- ALWAYS it is JUST the one word 'kyriakeh', always as the "Lord's LIFE" presupposed with one exception in a pseudo - variant in Ignatius' Letter to the Magnesians where it says "the Lord's LIFE". AND, if ever the idea of 'day' might be plausible, the Sabbath Day is the more probable, not the First Day ---I am not including Latin documents from after 400CE, while in medieval writings, 'Sunday' could be exclusively mentioned or implied... I don't know.
 
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