Why killing babies is not saving them

[KingJ]

I know this is a taboo subject, but have you ever applied your mind properly to it?

This is happening quite a lot today. Christian parents want to spare their baby a likely eternity in hell so they kill them early to guarantee them a spot in heaven at the risk of losing their spot for murder. Sounds noble and self-sacrificing. So how do you talk someone out of it?

We need a simple answer for the world and Christians thinking about this.

Do babies go to heaven? Yes! God is not dumb. A baby is incapable of rejecting God. We may be born into an evil world but nobody is created evil.

Are babies guaranteed an eternity in heaven? No. God is impartial. If Adam and Eve had the devil to tempt them, all mankind have to endure that. Unless babies remain babies for eternity there is a risk to God that even in heaven as they grow up, that they, just like the devil and the fallen angels may decide to rebel. We become children of God by accepting the blood of Jesus (from true free will). It is the blood of Jesus that makes us adopted sons of God. God will not over-ride babies gift of free will. If He did then He would be partial. All in hell would have a valid gripe. God would be guilty of contravening all the scripture stating that He is impartial.

When we put all this together with the understanding in Rev 20:3 of how the devil will be released to tempt mankind for the last time at the end of the millennium. I gather that babies will get their time too. It makes practical sense for it to be the millennium. I don't want to debate that though. But we must come into agreement on the fact that if God says He is impartial on all mankind, that that include babies too.

 

[aspen]

how about 'thou shall not murder'?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

This is happening quite a lot today. Christian parents want to spare their baby a likely eternity in hell so they kill them early to guarantee them a spot in heaven at the risk of losing their spot for murder.

.
HUH ????

Your kidding right ???

What a bizarre thing to say !!!!

 

[KingJ]

how about 'thou shall not murder'?

Aspen my friend, please read the whole post.

.
HUH ????

Your kidding right ???

What a bizarre thing to say !!!!

Arnie, please read my post again and try see where I am coming from.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Arnie, please read my post again and try see where I am coming from.

You have stated several bizarre scenarios

And no .... I dont ..... "see where you are coming from"

-babies vs old people and heaven
-you say Christians are killing their babies on a regular basis
-then all of a sudden you are at the end of the millennium with the devil
-and according to you God is impartial
-you call it a taboo subject
-and you are expecting simple answers


here is my "simple answer" ..... your opening post is bizarre

There you have it

 

[KingJ]

You have stated several bizarre scenarios

And no .... I dont ..... "see where you are coming from"

-babies vs old people and heaven
-you say Christians are killing their babies on a regular basis
-then all of a sudden you are at the end of the millennium with the devil
-and according to you God is impartial
-you call it a taboo subject
-and you are expecting simple answers


here is my "simple answer" ..... your opening post is bizarre

There you have it

Us younger Christians can learn so much sarcasm from our elders.

I am truly surprised that you are battling to join the dots. I thought I explained myself rather well. The whole post can be summarised into a single question we need to address.....

What would you say to someone about to kill their baby?

Is the limit of our insight 'thou shalt not kill'? Are all Christians going to be naive to the self sacrifice?

I cant resist <_< ...

-babies vs old people and heaven Huh? Old people?
-you say Christians are killing their babies on a regular basis No, ''quite'' a lot
-then all of a sudden you are at the end of the millennium with the devil Yes, because he will test mankind who has been in a type of heaven, earth run by saints and Jesus. Why release the devil to tempt man?
-and according to you God is impartial Yes, to you He isnt?
-you call it a taboo subject its not?
-and you are expecting simple answers Yes, too much to ask? Those about to kill their babies are very likely not theologians.

 

[soupy]

What is wrong with this forum, seems too many posts are strange.

Really sad

 

[KingJ]

Whats sad is that I can have a friendly, fruitful discussion on this subject at my workplace. But not here it seems.

 

[Foreigner]

"Do babies go to heaven? Yes! God is not dumb. A baby is incapable of rejecting God. We may be born into an evil world but nobody is created evil.

Are babies guaranteed an eternity in heaven? No. God is impartial. If Adam and Eve had the devil to tempt them, all mankind have to endure that. Unless babies remain babies for eternity there is a risk to God that even in heaven as they grow up, that they, just like the devil and the fallen angels may decide to rebel. We become children of God by accepting the blood of Jesus (from true free will). It is the blood of Jesus that makes us adopted sons of God. God will not over-ride babies gift of free will. If He did then He would be partial. All in hell would have a valid gripe. God would be guilty of contravening all the scripture stating that He is impartial." - KingJ



-- It's discusssion starters phrased like this that help ensure these discussions never get off the ground.

This is conjecture and nothing more. You (and the rest of us) do not know every option that is open to God under every circumstance and situation.
He does not reveal all to us. Indeed, nothing scripturally has been documented on this so both your point and any opposing point would be NOTHING BUT conjecture.

When it comes down to discussions such as this, we as Christians are nothing more than a bunch of second graders arguing about quantum physicas.
There is so much more to know than we realize, and the part we don't know can easily be the game-changer.

 

[horsecamp]

I dont know what happens to babies that were murdered in their mother's womb scripture does not say .. All we know is that no one gets to heaven with out faith in Jesus SCRIPTURE IS ADAMENT ABOUT THAT .

. yes I God can give them faith in Jesus even after death .. God can do any thing -----------. YET GOD DOES NOT promise any one he will and does not LET US HUMANS KNOW IF HE DOES SO OR NOT..

i do know God wants moms to allow their infants to live so that they are allowed to come to Jesus through The holy spirt converting marking and saving them in holy baptism.
after all if humans creatures could come to faith by their own reason their would be no need of the HOLY SPIRIT.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

..

What would you say to someone about to kill their baby?

Don't do it

Is the limit of our insight 'thou shalt not kill'? Are all Christians going to be naive to the self sacrifice?

The above sentence makes no sense to me. sorry.

-babies vs old people and heaven Huh? Old people?

Humans who are not babies are old people
I should have said "older"

bythe-then all of a sudden you are at end of the millennium with the devil Yes,
because he will test mankind wh haos been in a type of heaven, earth
run saints and Jesus. Why release the devil to tempt man?

If you are asking .... "How will babies choose at the end of the millennium" ..... that is a fair question ..... I expect God will use the same criteria he uses at the present time

some additional thoughts ....

-Are we certain that there will be babies (new people born) during the millennium ?? .... the bible does not specifically say so .... (I happen to think there will be , but that's beside the point)

-we are never specifically told (in the bible) what happens to babies who die ..... about the best we have is when Jesus said .... "children such as these belong to me" .....

- as far as the millennium ..... some scholars feel this will one of the most "wicked" (for lack of a better word) generation ever to be on earth ........ because even though Jesus has been reigning there will still be some people who will choose the devil once they get the chance

.

 

[the stranger]

I know this is a taboo subject, but have you ever applied your mind properly to it?

This is happening quite a lot today. Christian parents want to spare their baby a likely eternity in hell so they kill them early to guarantee them a spot in heaven at the risk of losing their spot for murder. Sounds noble and self-sacrificing. So how do you talk someone out of it?

We need a simple answer for the world and Christians thinking about this.

Do babies go to heaven? Yes! God is not dumb. A baby is incapable of rejecting God. We may be born into an evil world but nobody is created evil.

Are babies guaranteed an eternity in heaven? No. God is impartial. If Adam and Eve had the devil to tempt them, all mankind have to endure that. Unless babies remain babies for eternity there is a risk to God that even in heaven as they grow up, that they, just like the devil and the fallen angels may decide to rebel. We become children of God by accepting the blood of Jesus (from true free will). It is the blood of Jesus that makes us adopted sons of God. God will not over-ride babies gift of free will. If He did then He would be partial. All in hell would have a valid gripe. God would be guilty of contravening all the scripture stating that He is impartial.

When we put all this together with the understanding in Rev 20:3 of how the devil will be released to tempt mankind for the last time at the end of the millennium. I gather that babies will get their time too. It makes practical sense for it to be the millennium. I don't want to debate that though. But we must come into agreement on the fact that if God says He is impartial on all mankind, that that include babies too.

Maybe, just maybe, I am different too, because I understood from the get go your question and realize you just wanted to expand a drop to explain your question. Maybe I am just too simple minded, but it seemed like a simple question to me.

This type of thing also plays out among the sick and dying, the very painfully sick, the mentally ill, and ect.

I tend to see your point with babies in heaven making their own choice later on. Could be.

Relating to your question, I believe their is a difference in letting die and killing. That, however, is a subject that could have no common ground. Killing though, is of course wrong. Ironically, if you are correct, the babies down the road still would have to make their own decisions. It is a simple answer, but I see your question. For the good of the baby, so they say. It would be like killing all believers as soon as they believed to prevent those that will later choose to turn back to their vomit. It, unlike God, eliminates free will not giving their own child a chance to decide for themselves. Why does not the mother end her own life to prevent her from having to ever have to do this again?

Some people think pretty strange for sure. Who knows the heart of man but God?

Be blessed brother

 

[aspen]

this question tells more about the people answering it than the destiny of any soul. are people created good? based on Genesis, yes. Did God have to give us the lw before we could be condemned by it? Is awareness of the Law and Christ necessary for salvation even if awareness is not possible? Were we created for Heaven or Hell ?
Like many Christians who reject Calvinism, i believe this comes down to an issue of God's character. Creatng people for the sole purpose of torturing them for eternity is evil. Damning babies before they can cognitively choose to understand the plan of salvation is sadistic, especially if God is doing it for His glory. it is also totally inconsistent with His command for us to love one another. If God is good and is love, and truthful about loving the world, he would not create people to be tortured or stack the deck against them. I treat my dog better than that!
God judges our capacity to love. Babies, conitively impaired people are often examples of unconditional love and trust. It is a demonstrate of a gross lack of faith in God and His character to believe He would act in a manner that is inconsistent with His character of love. it is fatalistic to believe that God has His finger on the damnation button, waiting for glee to hurl the next baby to die into Hell. Shame on us for assasinating His character or worshiping an image of a god that is unworthy.

 

[KingJ]

"
This is conjecture and nothing more. You (and the rest of us) do not know every option that is open to God under every circumstance and situation.
He does not reveal all to us. Indeed, nothing scripturally has been documented on this so both your point and any opposing point would be NOTHING BUT conjecture.

When it comes down to discussions such as this, we as Christians are nothing more than a bunch of second graders arguing about quantum physicas.
There is so much more to know than we realize, and the part we don't know can easily be the game-changer.

The bible says a lot on this subject, we just need to join the dots. ''Nobody comes to the Father but by me''. We all have to come through Jesus. A decision a baby or mentally handicapped can't make. 'God is impartial' (many scriptures for that), ie God would not show preference to anyone. Ie, all humans will, like Adam and Eve be tempted by the devil / evil hence Rev 20:3.

I am not dis-agreeing with you either Foreigner. Joining the dots can become assumptions. I just don't want us to be naive when put into a corner by atheists and the like. The corner is: It is insane to kill a baby!!! BUT ''Christians believe babies go to heaven. So for Christians killing babies is a must. So what if you murder, it is the ultimate self sacrifice for a parent''.

This subject for me, proves free will at an extreme / absurd level.

Maybe, just maybe, I am different too, because I understood from the get go your question and realize you just wanted to expand a drop to explain your question. Maybe I am just too simple minded, but it seemed like a simple question to me.

This type of thing also plays out among the sick and dying, the very painfully sick, the mentally ill, and ect.

I tend to see your point with babies in heaven making their own choice later on. Could be.

Relating to your question, I believe their is a difference in letting die and killing. That, however, is a subject that could have no common ground. Killing though, is of course wrong. Ironically, if you are correct, the babies down the road still would have to make their own decisions. It is a simple answer, but I see your question. For the good of the baby, so they say. It would be like killing all believers as soon as they believed to prevent those that will later choose to turn back to their vomit. It, unlike God, eliminates free will not giving their own child a chance to decide for themselves. Why does not the mother end her own life to prevent her from having to ever have to do this again?

Some people think pretty strange for sure. Who knows the heart of man but God?

Be blessed brother

I think so far it is just you and I that see a need to answer people asking this question from the recent media / God bashing frenzy over Kelli Murphy,Julia Lovemore and Elzbieta Plackowska. Maybe everyone still in holiday mode .

this question tells more about the people answering it than the destiny of any soul. are people created good? based on Genesis, yes. Did God have to give us the lw before we could be condemned by it? Is awareness of the Law and Christ necessary for salvation even if awareness is not possible? Were we created for Heaven or Hell ?
Like many Christians who reject Calvinism, i believe this comes down to an issue of God's character. Creatng people for the sole purpose of torturing them for eternity is evil. Damning babies before they can cognitively choose to understand the plan of salvation is sadistic, especially if God is doing it for His glory. it is also totally inconsistent with His command for us to love one another. If God is good and is love, and truthful about loving the world, he would not create people to be tortured or stack the deck against them. I treat my dog better than that!
God judges our capacity to love. Babies, conitively impaired people are often examples of unconditional love and trust. It is a demonstrate of a gross lack of faith in God and His character to believe He would act in a manner that is inconsistent with His character of love. it is fatalistic to believe that God has His finger on the damnation button, waiting for glee to hurl the next baby to die into Hell. Shame on us for assasinating His character or worshiping an image of a god that is unworthy.

Well said. I agree!