Why not Everyone will be Saved

[FaithWillDo]

What exactly are you asking?

Thanks for responding Joe. I love the fresh revelation Father has been giving me since I stopped consulting the bible. These revelations have transformed my thinking and has been impacting the way I live my life. Highly recommend hearing directly from the Spirit of Christ without the bible.
It might be a too big of a task to take on for some.

Dear 12question,
Yes, but don't forget about what Paul said:

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Joe

 

[12question]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God

I would add, all Dinine revelation is given by inspiration of God. All Divine dreams and visions are given by inspiration of God.

Like many people have experienced, I love receiving things by inspiration of my God. I love receiving wisdom, discernment, prophecy as I'm being moved by the Spirit of God.

 

[12question]

is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

I'd agree with Paul, that it is profitable for certain things. Again, profitable but not essential.

Milk is profitable but it isn't essential. There are so many other foods provided by God for us to survive and grow into a complete human.

Scripture, like milk has become so limited. It may keep us alive but does not provide the mature person with all the nutrients needed to live a full life.

 

[Phoneman777]

There is a false doctrine that teaches all people will be saved, that a good and loving God would not allow any to perish. They come up with many ideas of how this can happen, that after a cleansing period such as another false doctrine, Purgatory, God will free sinners and let them get to heaven, or that there will be multiple raptures so that people will have another opportunity to choose God or another path to Him. So but the Bible doesnt teach this, it tells us clearly there is only one path...

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And He will separate the sheep (saints) from the goats (wicked) at His coming...
Matthew 25:32-34
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

And only the saints will be taken to heaven to be in the Kingdom where Christ has prepared a place for them...
John 14:1-3
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

So we see that the Kingdom is only for the saints, the chosen, the elect, but the Bible also calls them a remnant...
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

And we find the following also...
Romans 9:27
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

So not all shall be saved, but lets look further into this..

Reminds me of those bikers who traveled through radical Islam territory to "prove" theirs is a religion of peace:

How a couple's dream trip ended in tragedy at the hands of Isis

They quit their jobs to travel the world by bike, and found places and people of great beauty and kindness – until a fateful run-in with Islamic militants

www.independent.co.uk

 

[FaithWillDo]

I'd agree with Paul, that it is profitable for certain things. Again, profitable but not essential.

Milk is profitable but it isn't essential. There are so many other foods provided by God for us to survive and grow into a complete human.

Scripture, like milk has become so limited. It may keep us alive but does not provide the mature person with all the nutrients needed to live a full life.

Dear 12question,
Read the verse again. Scripture is given so that the man of God may be perfect. Perfect means to be converted and spiritually matured. Understanding the truth taught by scripture is necessary according to Paul.
Joe

 

[PGS11]

Yes but the gospel was meant to be preached in hope not fear . Fear is the opposite of hope so are you putting fear in people to come to God then your using fear to get people to stay is that how God wants it?They are not learning anything Its not how the Gospel should be preached . Hope is the essence of our faith. Hope is central to Christianity.All our hope is in Jesus.Some just get completely focused on who is going to hell preaching damnation rather than hope driving people away missing the message of the gospel which is the Good News that the Savior has come and that Jesus has died for all your sins and that death no longer holds you because you to can now be raised up in Jesus.

 

[12question]

Understanding the truth taught by scripture is necessary according to Paul.
Joe

I think I can understand why people place such importance on scripture. I once did too.

But I'm so glad that God expanded my horizons that has taken me beyond the bounds of scripture and the bible.

And being led beyond, has allowed me to see more of God, His ways and His plans. It's awesome, He's awesome. I invite others to join me on this adventure in the beyond and be amazed Who one can find here. The fear I once had of being deceived is gone because He is within me and we have a great relationship venturing into what is to me the unknown and having the confidence that the One Who guides me is sovereign and knows all things.

 

[gordon7]

Distinctions, who approves of them ?

There are those believers hated of all men, ( has to be some or they cant be hated of all men) who endure to the end. 9 the same are saved)

Apostle Paul pleased ALL MEN, to not serve himself, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Look CAREFULLY, why the apostle Paul OBTAINED MERCY, because in him Jesus Christ shows the pattern of all LONG SUFFERING, to them who after should believe on Christ Jesus TO LIFE EVERLASTING.

God will have all men to be saved, coming to the knowledge of the truth. ( believe on Christ who CAME INTO THE WORLD TO SAVE SINNERS/ALL MEN/Paul the chief sinner.)

The Lord is LONG SUFFERING to us, of not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. ( to the knowledge of the truth, the pattern of all long suffering to follow, of apostle Paul the chief sinner, saved.)

To be DILLIGENT to be found of Him in peace, WITHOUT SPOT. Account that the long suffering of the Lord is SALVATION. ( as apostle Paul wrote about, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, to THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.)

To BEWARE, not to be LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR OF THE WICKED. ( destruction is not just the flesh, it is the soul of the wicked. Proverbs 21:10. Job 31:3.)

The error of the wicked is to not understand we are exhorted not to fall from our own stedfastness, this is when we understand what the knowledge of the truth is, ( for all men to be saved) to grow in grace, in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. ( not the error of the wicked, who neither grow, nor allow anyone to grow/bear much fruit to be the disciples of Jesus Christ.)



Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

1 Corinthians 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.



Proverbs 21:10 The soul of the wicked desireth evil: his neighbour findeth no favour in his eyes.

Job 31:3 Is not destruction to the wicked? and a strange punishment to the workers of iniquity?

Proverbs 10:29 The way of the Lord is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.

Proverbs 21:15 It is joy to the just to do judgment: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.



1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[quietthinker]

Why not Everyone will be Saved​

Everyone is saved yet many will be lost because in their unwillingness they shut out the wonder. (their ears are dull and treasured obstructions have blurred the vision) They are persuaded the Good News is a short changing program. Such is the nature of deception.

 

[gordon7]

Through the Son of God the world might be saved.

Believing o the Son and we are not condemned.

They who do not believe on the Son of God are CONDEMNED ALREADY. ( they did not believe on the name of the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God)

Satan and deceiving spirits use all deceiving of unrighteousness in them that perish, who do not receive the love of the truth. ( the Son of God sent into the world to save the world) to be saved.

God sends them strong delusion so they instead BELIEVE A LIE.

That all might be damned, who had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Go d chose us to salvation through sanctification of the spirit and BELIEF of the truth. ( called by the gospel of Christ)


John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[gordon7]

The testimony of God is simplicity in Christ, not confusion in satan.


2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

James 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

 

[FaithWillDo]

The testimony of God is simplicity in Christ, not confusion in satan.


2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

James 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

Dear gordon7,
I read your posts but I can't really understand what you are trying to say. According to God's Word, do you believe that Christ going to save all mankind or is He not?
Joe

 

[gordon7]

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were FILLED WITH ENVY, and SPAKE AGAINST THOSE THINGS which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but SEEING YE PUT IT FROM YOU, and JUDGE YOURSELVES UNWORTHY OF ETERNAL LIFE, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and AS MANY AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED

Romans 1:.18 For THE WRATH OF GOD IS REVEALED FROM HEAVEN AGAINST ALL UNGODLINESS AND UNRIGHTEOUSNESS OF MEN, who HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; SO THAT THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but BECAME VAIN IN THEIR IMAGINATIONS, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, THEY BECAME FOOLS,

Romans 1:28 And EVEN AS THEY DID NOT LIKE TO RETAIN GOD IN THEIR KNOWLEDGE, God GAVE THEM OVER TO A REPROBATE MIND, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being FILLED WITH ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; FULL OF ENVY, murder, DEBATE, DECEIT, malignity; whisperers,

 

[FaithWillDo]

Romans 1:.18 For THE WRATH OF GOD IS REVEALED FROM HEAVEN AGAINST ALL UNGODLINESS AND UNRIGHTEOUSNESS OF MEN, who HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS;

Dear gordon7,
I assume your post is your answer to my question but you lack any commentary on those scriptures so I still don't know if you believe that Christ is the Savior of the world or not.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

It is true that all mankind is "condemned already" (John 3:18) as you quoted previously. It is true because all mankind has sinned and has become the children of the Devil.

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil (condemned) sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin (born again as a child of God); for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Since all mankind are children of the Devil, all mankind will go to destruction and will perish. There are no exceptions to paying this penalty. At the end of the final age, mankind will cease to exist. But before mankind perishes, Christ has sworn that He will save all mankind and convert them into children of God. In other words, mankind will be born again and made into a new creation. The spiritual work of Christ to make this transition for all mankind is called conversion.

So when you read verses that say "the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness" it applies to every person who has ever been born. All mankind (children of the devil) will receive the wrath of God and perish.

Since all mankind is headed to destruction, it is necessary to look beyond those scriptures which teach this truth and find the verses which teach whether or not Christ will save all mankind before they perish. When a person looks to those relevant verses, it is very clear that Christ will save everyone prior to their destruction. After all, that is the mission that the Father sent Christ to accomplish. Since Christ is mankind's God, how can He fail? He can't.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1Cor 13:8 Love never fails;

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Here are a few more scriptures that teach that Christ will fully complete the mission His Father gave Him:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Here is Isa 45:22 as paraphrased by Paul in his letter to the Philippians:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favor be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward (reward the Elect receive). 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire (the balance of mankind).

Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

The Elect are the only ones who Christ is saving in this present age. They are blessed & chosen and are also called the "first fruits" of Christ's harvest of mankind. They are blessed because they are harvested early. They will receive the reward of having "life" during the ages and the honor of reigning with Christ in the final age.

James 1:18 According to his own will begat he us by the word of truth, that we should be a certain first-fruits of his creatures.

But the Elect are only the first fruits of the harvest - the remaining harvest of mankind is brought into the barn (Kingdom of Heaven) at year's end (final age).

That truth is what the Feasts of Weeks (First Fruits) and the Feast of Ingathering (Tabernacles) foreshadow and that is why the Jews were commanded to observe them:

Exo 34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

After the bodily resurrections occur at the end of this age, all mankind will appear before the judgment seat of Christ (White Throne). At that time, Christ will separated the sheep (Elect) from the goats (the lost). The "lost" will be cast into the Lake of Fire for judgment. But before the "lost" perish (the true penalty of sin), Christ will have "mercy" upon them and freely give them "faith":

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ will show His mercy to the "lost" by giving them the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the indwelling of the Spirit, the lost person will have "faith" and will call Jesus "Lord".

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

With the "lost" now having the free gift of faith (Eph 2:8), the pathway for Christ will be made straight for Him to come to each lost person and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Spirit of Truth/Baptism of the Holy Spirit). With both the Early and Latter Rains, the lost person will be born again and gathered to heaven. The child of the Devil, who they used to be, will remain in the Lake of Fire for destruction. In this way, justice is also satisfied.

By the end of the final age, all who died in Adam will be made alive in Christ. Mankind will cease to exist but the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller.

Joe

 

[12question]

The Elect are the only ones who Christ is saving in this present age. They are blessed & chosen and are also called the "first fruits" of Christ's harvest of mankind. They are blessed because they are harvested early. They will receive the reward of having "life" during the ages and the honor of reigning with Christ in the final age.

Yes, it's great to know that Jesus has His Spirit going to and fro over the planet opening humans eyes and ears to hear and see the good news of Christ the Lamb already slain, the current Saviour and coming King. And that Christ has given His Spirit a quest to redeem humans from every tribe so that these particular people will reign with Jesus as kings and serve as priests for 1000 years.

Then the icing on the cake. These, blessed of the Father, will reign with Him in His never ending kingdom over all creations.

Now that's good news! Close to being the best news I've ever heard.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Yes, it's great to know that Jesus has His Spirit going to and fro over the planet opening humans eyes and ears to hear and see the good news of Christ the Lamb already slain, the current Saviour and coming King. And that Christ has given His Spirit a quest to redeem humans from every tribe so that these particular people will reign with Jesus as kings and serve as priests for 1000 years.

Then the icing on the cake. These, blessed of the Father, will reign with Him in His never ending kingdom over all creations.

Now that's good news! Close to being the best news I've ever heard.

Dear 12question,
Yes, it is good news for the Elect and it will be good news for the rest of mankind by the end of the next and final age.

However, once all mankind has been saved, Christ and the Elect's reign will come to an end when the Kingdom of Heaven is delivered up the Father. Only then God will be "all and all" (1Cor 15:20-28).

As I mentioned before to you, the symbol "1000 years" in not literal time. It is a symbol for when the Elect reign with Christ in judgment over the children of the Devil. That reign is "twice told":

Ecc 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good (children of the Devil): do not all go to one place? (Lake of Fire)

The first time the Elect reign, it is over their own judgment (Rev chapter 19) which happens right after they have received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit and have been "born again". The second time, it is over the rest of mankind in the final. They will reign with Christ until the last person is converted and saved. Only then will the ages come to an end. Nothing beyond this point is revealed in scripture.

Do you believe that Christ is going to save all mankind?

Joe

 

[gordon7]

It is true that all mankind is "condemned already" (John 3:18) as you quoted previously. It is true because all mankind has sinned and has become the children of the Devil.

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil (condemned) sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin (born again as a child of God); for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Since all mankind are children of the Devil, all mankind will go to destruction and will perish. There are no exceptions to paying this penalty. At the end of the final age, mankind will cease to exist. But before mankind perishes, Christ has sworn that He will save all mankind and convert them into children of God. In other words, mankind will be born again and made into a new creation. The spiritual work of Christ to make this transition for all mankind is called conversion.

The believers are not condemned. Condemned already are the ones who do not believe. ( the believers in Christ are chastened of the Lord that they should not be condemned with the world.)..



John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.



Children of the devil are those who do not love Jesus, and who do not believe that He proceeded and came forth from the Father.

Those of the devil cannot understand the word of Christ, and then being of their father the devil ( hearing his word) do the lusts of him. ( abiding in the one who was a murderer from the beginning)

Because Jesus tells the truth to the children of the devil, they DO NOT BELIEVE HIM.

Jesus again tells them ( the children of the devil) that they who are of Go hear Gods word, and although He says the truth to them, they have no reason to not believe Him, but that they do not hear HIs words BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT OF GOD.

The Son knows the Father, and if He said He does not know Him, He would be a liar like they are liars.

Those of the devil come again to Jesus, and Jesus tells them AGAIN, that the works He does in His Fathers name, bear WITNESS OF HIM.

But those of the devil do NOT BELIEVE, because THEY ARE NOT HIS SHEEP. as He SAID UNTO THEM ( not of God but are of their father the devil/if God was their Father they would love the Son of God sent forth.)

Jesus shows HIs sheep do hear HIs voice, He knows THEM, they follow Him...


John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


John 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:




Since not all are children of the devil, here is MORE DISTINCTION, for belief. ( belief was already given to the sheep to believe in their Shepherd sent to them/the works He FINISHED, bear WITNESS OF HIM.)

Satan, the devil, continues ( in the antichrist spirit) with all LYING.

Strong delusion for them to BELIEVE A LIE. ( the sheep believe THE TRUTH.)

To RECEIVE THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, is to be saved. ( believe in your heart God raised Christ from the dead and you will be SAVED. Romans 10:10.) Jesus is the door, for the sheep to go in and out find pasture and BE SAVED.

The DAMNED, do not BELIEVE THE TRUTH.

Remembering that the devil WAS A MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING, abode not in the truth, the beloved of the Lord, ( HIs sheep He knows) are CHOSEN FROM THE BEGINNING, to salvation, through sanctification of the spirit, and BELIEF OF THE TRUTH. ( because Jesus tells the truth the children of the devil DO NOT BELIEVE/ in Him risen to be SAVED.)...



John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.



The devil we understand murdered/sinned FROM THE BEGINNING.

The seed of the wicked one are not sown by God. ( sown by the devil) but the children of the kingdom are sown by God. ( His seed remains in him.) that is THOSE WHO ARE BORN OF GOD.

In this is MANIFESTED the CHILDREN OF GOD, and the CHILDEEN OF THE DEVIL, ( the children of the devil do not believe in their heart unto righteousness of Christ rising, to be saved. Romans 10:9-10.) they do not do righteousness, they do NOT LOVE THEIR BROTHER. ( tares gathered to all be burned/cast into the lake of fire with their father the devil.)

The righteous ( His sheep who hear His voice/the truth, unlike the children of the devil/goats who do not believe the truth told and FULFILLED by Christ.) shine forth in the kingdom of their Father. (the devil is cast into the fire, second death, anyone NOT FOUND written in the book of life was cast into the same lake of fire. ( the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, HIs fellow sheep believe He was raised by God the Father, and all whose names are NOT WRITTEN IN THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE, worship the beast.)..




Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[gordon7]

The message we HEARD FROM THE BEGINJING, ( HIs sheep hear) to love one another.

Not be as Cain, who is of the wicked one ( of the devil father of lies, as those who do not hear Christ, telling the truth are also of the wicked one) but be as Abel whose works were righteous, not as the ones of the wicked one whose works are EVIL.

Passing from the death ( second death where the devil and followers go) is BECAUSE WE LOVE THE BROTHERS. ( those who do not love their brother are in death.) Nobody who does not love their brother has ternal life abiding in them, they are a murderer as their father the devil was a murderer from the beginning.

The antichrist denies Christ has come to fulfil all in the flesh.

They do not confess Christ, they are NOT OF GOD.

They who are OF GOD, OVERCOME THEM. They are of the WORLD, they SPAK OF THE WORLD, the world ( those of their father the devil) HEAR THEM.

Those of God ( HIs sheep) know God and hear those of God, and those who are NOT OF GOD, do not hear them. ( hereby we know the spirit of TRUTH, and the spirit of ERROR.)..



1 John 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[FaithWillDo]

The message we HEARD FROM THE BEGINJING, ( HIs sheep hear) to love one another.

Dear gordon7,
Much of what you stated is true but your understanding of what you stated is false.

Mankind is created spiritually marred and subject to vanity. There are no exceptions.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Because all mankind is born in this spiritually marred condition, all mankind becomes carnally minded and sins. Because all mankind sins, all mankind becomes children of the Devil. In this utterly lost and sinful condition, no man can understand God or will even seek after Him. Why? Because the truth of God is "foolishness" to the natural man:

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Do you believe these scriptures above?

Most believers do not believe them as evidenced by the doctrines they believe and teach. They believe that they have some magical ability which comes from their "supposed" free will to overcome the marred spiritual state they were given at birth. Because they have this carnal mindset, they have a "works" based belief system (filthy rags). This works based belief system is the foundation of the Old Covenant of Law and has no place in the New Covenant.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Because all mankind (including the sheep) are unable to come to Christ on their own, Christ must come to them. In the age, Christ will come to "many" and will call them out from the world. He does this by freely giving the person the Early Rain of the Spirit. Then from that large group of "many", a few have been chosen by Christ to be His sheep. They are the Elect.

The conversion from being a goat (child of the Devil) into being a sheep (child of God) happens solely by the work and choice of Christ to do it. The person has no free will ability to contribute anything towards their own salvation.

When Christ comes to a person to call them out from the world (to become one of the "many"), He will freely give the person the Early Rain of the Spirit (the Spirit of Faith). With the Early Rain, the believer will be given a measure of faith and certain spiritual gifts. They will then make a confession of faith and will enter the church.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

The process I described above is the only way a person will make a confession of faith. Christ does all the work of causing it to happen and He does it to whomever He chooses. The individual will not ask Christ to do His spiritual work within them, nor does Christ ask them for permission to do it.

But since the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in "measure", the believer will not be converted. They will remain carnally minded and spiritually blind. In this condition, Satan will come to them and deceive them through the spirit of anti-Christ. Satan will feed them a carnally pleasing diet of leavened bread (lies). After the new believer consumes Satan's leavened bread, they will fall away from faith and began mixing in their own "works" for salvation. In this way, they are trying to serve two masters.

In Mat 12:43-45, Christ describes the spiritual process of devolution all new believers will go through. After the process as finished, the new believer will have lost their salvation and will be made "worse than the first". This is the type of believer who makes up the apostate churches of the world. They are carnally minded & spiritually blind and don't realize that they are following Satan instead of Christ.

This verse applies:

2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

For fallen away believers who are also chosen (sheep), Christ will come a second time to them and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Latter Rain is called the Spirit of Truth because it will heal the person's spiritual blindness. After it is healed, they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred when the spirit of anti-Christ unknowingly entered them. After they see this truth, judgment will fall on the believer and remove & destroy the spirit of anti-Christ along with their carnal nature. After this judgment is complete, they will be converted from a child of the devil (goat) into a child of God (sheep).

This spiritual process of conversion happens to the person only because Christ chose from the foundation of the world to give it to them early (as compared to the rest of mankind). For this reason, the sheep are called the first fruits of the harvest.

Mankind's salvation occurs solely by the work of Christ. It is a free gift. Mankind contributes nothing - they don't even have to receive the gift because they are not given a choice in the matter (Paul's conversion is the pattern). And since Christ has proclaimed that He will save all mankind, He will do exactly that. The sheep are saved first (first fruits of the harvest) and the goats will be converted later during their time of judgment in the Lake of Fire.

What I have presented above is the true Gospel of Christ. The "another gospel" which is taught in this world by the apostate churches is a false gospel. That gospel mixes man's works with faith. For that reason, the apostate church implies that those who make the right choice to accept Christ are smarter, wiser or just not as evil as those who reject Christ. But the choice they made did not originate from within themselves. It happened only because Christ caused it to happen:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Read the verses again that I presented earlier which describe mankind's created spiritual condition. Something has to change that condition before anyone could ever accept Christ as their Savior. That "something" is the spiritual work of Christ.

All mankind is at the mercy of Christ to save us. He has chosen His sheep (Elect) and will save them first. All others will have to wait until the final age to receive their salvation. This truth goes against what the apostate church teaches - but then again, the ways of God are not the ways of man.

Joe

 

[gordon7]

Mankind is created spiritually marred and subject to vanity. There are no exceptions.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Because all mankind is born in this spiritually marred condition, all mankind becomes carnally minded and sins. Because all mankind sins, all mankind becomes children of the Devil. In this utterly lost and sinful condition, no man can understand God or will even seek after Him. Why? Because the truth of God is "foolishness" to the natural man:

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Mankind was made spiritually marred, so God made another, new man, that is not spiritually marred or subject to vanity. ( CREATED AFTER GOD IN RIGHTEOUSNESS AND TRUE HOLINESS)


Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.



God is the potter, having power over the clay, and of the SAME LUMP, to make one unto honour, and ANOTHER, unto dishonour.

That is the testimony also, that if a man purges himself from these ( from unbelief-dishonour) he shall be meet for the Masters use and PREPARED, unto EVERY GOOD WORK.


Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.




All mankind believes in lies to be of their father the devil or believes in the truth, to be of God....


2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: