Why the cross actually saves

[1stCenturyLady]

Blotted out our sins and there is no more remembrance of them.
Satisfied God's wrath.
Reconciled us back to God.

That is why the cross needs to be properly understood.

Good, that is true. What happened to us when Jesus took away our sin?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Good, that is true. What happened to us when Jesus took away our sin?

We were made innocent in the Father's sight by the imputed righteousness of the Christ.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We were made innocent in the Father's sight by the imputed righteousness of the Christ.

What if we commit sin after Jesus already took away our sin.

 

[SovereignGrace]

What if we commit sin after Jesus already took away our sin.

There is no if to it. We do sin after we have been saved.[1 John 1:8] Romans 8:38-39 tells us what happens when we sin after being saved.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There is no if to it. We do sin after we have been saved.[1 John 1:8] Romans 8:38-39 tells us what happens when we sin after being saved.

Then why did Jesus take away our past sins if nothing happens?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Then why did Jesus take away our past sins if nothing happens?

Look at it like this. When the Christ drank His Father's most bitter cup[see Psalms 75:8], He ingested His sheep's sins. He who knew no sins, BECAME sin for us. He is forever the sinless Lamb of God, yet He stood before His Father as if He had committed every sin of every elect had ever committed. He bore this wrath for them, dying their death for them. He was sinless, yet at the cross, God saw Him as a sinner.

Now that He did that, His sheep can now stand before the Father clothed in His Son's righteousness, as if they never sinned a day in their life. It's not that we don't see, because we do, but that God sees us through His Son. He sees us sinless in the Christ.

Until you get the cross right, none of these questions you ask will be answered correctly and you agree with them.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Look at it like this. When the Christ drank His Father's most bitter cup[see Psalms 75:8], He ingested His sheep's sins. He who knew no sins, BECAME sin for us. He is forever the sinless Lamb of God, yet He stood before His Father as if He had committed every sin of every elect had ever committed. He bore this wrath for them, dying their death for them. He was sinless, yet at the cross, God saw Him as a sinner.

Now that He did that, His sheep can now stand before the Father clothed in His Son's righteousness, as if they never sinned a day in their life. It's not that we don't see, because we do, but that God sees us through His Son. He sees us sinless in the Christ.

Until you get the cross right, none of these questions you ask will be answered correctly and you agree with them.

I know you believe that and it is straight out of the Reformation, so its been around for a long time. It seems right to you, but it is dead wrong. It is the Holy Spirit that is seldom mentioned except in passing in your circles, that empowers us to no longer sin.

Your verse 1 John 1:8 is in context with 1 John 1:9. Since Adam, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That is 1 John 1:8 in John's words. To BECOME a Christian you must do verse 9. Verse 8 is BEFORE Christ.

Romans 8:38-39 doesn't mention sin, the one thing that can separate us from God, just like it did Adam and Eve.

1 John 3:5-9
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I know you believe that and it is straight out of the Reformation, so its been around for a long time. It seems right to you, but it is dead wrong. It is the Holy Spirit that is seldom mentioned except in passing in your circles, that empowers us to no longer sin.

Your verse 1 John 1:8 is in context with 1 John 1:9. Since Adam, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That is 1 John 1:8 in John's words. To BECOME a Christian you must do verse 9. Verse 8 is BEFORE Christ.

Romans 8:38-39 doesn't mention sin, the one thing that can separate us from God, just like it did Adam and Eve.

1 John 3:5-9
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

When was the last time you sinned?

 

[Phoneman777]

Prejudiced? Is that how you see it. I don't. There are two sides to Paul's story. We don't hear Peter's. I see Peter between a rock and a hard place. He did not separate himself from the Gentiles after Acts 10, but ate with them. But when he brought in Jews that were not free of Mosaic food laws, he did not offend them. And neither did Paul.

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; 20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.


Do you call Jesus prejudiced?
Matthew 15:
21 Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”

23 But He answered her not a word.

And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”

26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”

28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

My point was after Peter was filled with the Holy Ghost, he still made mistakes. Tried to kill Malchus, tried to turn Jesus aside from the path to Calvary, lied 3 times about knowing Jesus...even Jesus said to him concerning the sifting he would soon experience at the hands of Satan, "when you are converted" which is an obvious reference to Peter's repentance after his fall the night of Jesus' trial.

 

[Phoneman777]

Defending Ellen G White I see.

If my beliefs were indefensible, I'd abandon them. When I discovered that Dispensationalism and Jesuit Futurism were indefensible, I did just that (never believed Jesuit Preterism, so no need to do so).

 

[Preacher4Truth]

When was the last time you sinned?

Right when she posted that diatribe of lies, division, false accusations, and false testimony concerning herself. First time I saw her post, I knew she was a candidate for me to obey Romans 16:17.

 

[Phoneman777]

Not one of your side of the debate came to defend the Christ against this heresy. Not one!! Yet, when we avow man does not possess free will, you and your side attack like a pack of hyenas. Why? Free will is your god. Now, let's discuss the cross, okay?

Calvinism is just another form of "Inclusive Religion" where the "in" crowd pridefully look down with indifference at the rest of us left out in the cold. Luciferian societies do the same thing - they claim the rest of us are "too stupid" or "too unworthy" to have received the glorious manifestations of "light and truth" from Lucifer that they've been so privileged to receive. It's supported by Atheism's core doctrine that "man has no free will", as well.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Calvinism is just another form of "Inclusive Religion" where the "in" crowd pridefully look down with indifference at the rest of us left out in the cold. Luciferian societies do the same thing - they claim the rest of us are "too stupid" or "too unworthy" to have received the glorious manifestations of "light and truth" from Lucifer that they've been so privileged to receive. It's supported by Atheism's core doctrine that "man has no free will", as well.

Wrong. When you said the Christ laid off His divinity I knew right then and there you’re on an unsustainable path.

 

[Ezra]

I'm not saying it, the bible is saying it. 1 Corinthians 2:14 for starters.

it depends on how you look at it... i understood for years that i needed to be saved..but i chose the pleasures of sin for a season.. then one night in a church revival God spoke to me saying its NOW OR NEVER -----I CHOSE THE NOW

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Calvinism is just another form of "Inclusive Religion" where the "in" crowd pridefully look down with indifference at the rest of us left out in the cold. Luciferian societies do the same thing - they claim the rest of us are "too stupid" or "too unworthy" to have received the glorious manifestations of "light and truth" from Lucifer that they've been so privileged to receive. It's supported by Atheism's core doctrine that "man has no free will", as well.

That's really callow of you -- it proves you have no biblical case, or Christian behavior.

Hey, just because your beliefs are based on out of context verses here and there is no reason for you to again walk in the flesh and throw out some more false insults.

Why not leave off your juvenile behavior and attempt to use Scripture correctly, and at least try to refute our Christian doctrine with Scripture, and stick to that objective?

Thing is, you cannot, there is not one passage you use in context that refutes our position. Not one.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

it depends on how you look at it... i understood for years that i needed to be saved..but i chose the pleasures of sin for a season.. then one night in a church revival God spoke to me saying its NOW OR NEVER -----I CHOSE THE NOW

Even reprobates know they're in need of salvation, read Romans 1. That does not necessitate that they fall in line with understanding the things of the Spirit as per 1 Corinthians 2:14 or that we choose ourselves into heaven. They were simply convicted of their sinfulness, they know it is wrong as does all mankind. This is general revelation, not special revelation.

 

[H. Richard]

If He pardoned everybody whoever lived on the cross then everybody whoever lived is saved.

Here’s the definitions of pardon...

—the excusing of an offense without exacting a penalty
—a release from the legal penalties of an offense
—an official warrant of remission of penalty
—excuse or forgiveness for a fault, offense, or discourtesy

If He fully pardoned everybody whoever lived by dying on the cross, then everybody whoever lived have been released from the penalty of their sins, their sins have been remitted, their sins have been forgiven.

Say a guy gets pardoned and then the judge denies it and sentences him to life in prison with no chance for parole. Ppl would be screaming about such injustice.

Look at Matthew 25:31ff. Those on the left were pardoned by your’s and other’s belief. Yet, God will reject it and cast them headlong into the lake of fire.

If they’ve been fully pardoned, they’re saved. Ppl need to learn more about the power of the cross.

Thanks for your reply but I disagree with you on this point. I truly believe in the power of the cross and do not place any limit on it.

IMHO, it seems to me that your opinion belittles the work of the cross. Please don't take offense. All have a pardon but if a person doesn't believe they do then they will refuse it and try to get to heaven by doing works to earn it. Without faith (belief) no man can please God. A child of God has faith in their pardon Jesus gave them. Those that refuse to put their faith in God's pardon (HIS WORK ON THE CROSS) will not be saved because of their un-belief that they have a pardon in the work of Jesus (God) on the cross.

If God only pardoned some then He would be unfair. The pardon is there but mankind refuses it so they reap the rewards of those that do not believe God has given them a pardon. Simple as that but most can't accept it. Jesus came to give the Jews their promised kingdom. He was ready to set it up but the Jews would not accept Him so He didn't set it up. The kingdom was in their midst but Jesus did not set it up because of un-belief. Today the pardon is there. Jesus set it up. But most will not believe it and will not take advantage of it.

You take Matthew 25 31 and apply to those under grace. The goat and sheep judgement is at the return of Jesus to set up His kingdom on earth. It applies to those who do, or do not do, to support (help) the Jews in the 7 years trib. There will not be anyone there who has been saved under this age of God's grace. I believe in the rapture before the 7 tears trib.

Are you now going to try and put me, personally , down to show your superior knowledge? I, personally, hate it when posters do that to another person. Oh but that is the nature of many on forums.

Heb 10:28-29
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
NKJV

 

[Ezra]

Even reprobates know they're in need of salvation, read Romans 1. That does not necessitate that they fall in line with understanding the things of the Spirit as per 1 Corinthians 2:14 or that we choose ourselves into heaven. They were simply convicted of their sinfulness, they know it is wrong as does all mankind. This is general revelation, not special revelation.

that is the key conviction knowing your wrong knowing you need saved . for me it took a trip to federal court 2 years probation $500.00 fine .on the last night of my probation i got saved.. others it just hardens the heart even more .being blinded by the god of this world

 

[Ezra]

God only pardoned some then He would be unfair. The pardon is there but mankind refuses it so they reap the rewards of those that do not believe God has given them a pardon. Simple as that but most can't accept it. Jesus came to give the Jews their promised kingdom. He was ready to set it up but the Jews would not accept Him so He didn't set it up. The kingdom was in their midst but Jesus did not set it up because of un-belief. Today the pardon is there. Jesus set it up. But most will not believe it and will not take advantage of it.

amen

 

[Phoneman777]

Wrong. When you said the Christ laid off His divinity I knew right then and there you’re on an unsustainable path.

Jesus took to His divine nature a new nature - humanity - when He became incarnate. He was 100% man but also 100% God. Pastor Dr. Charles D. Brooks once said, "If you try to explain it, you'll lose your mind, but if you refuse to believe it, you'll lose your soul."

Jesus in His humanity relied on the Father to:

• conceive Him in Mary
• grow Him from childhood
• teach Him truth
• anoint Him Messiah
• perform miracles
• answer (or deny) His prayer requests
• raise Him from the dead

Jesus was flesh and like the rest of us and sought the Father for help, for "O Thou that hearest prayer, UNTO THEE shall all flesh come."

***************************But****************************
​

Jesus as the Second Person in the Godhead aka the Divine Jesus was:

• Almighty God
• One with the Father
• Equal in existence, agreement, and causation of all things, including all things which pertained to the Incarnate Jesus