Why the cross actually saves

[1stCenturyLady]

Wow! You are truly deceived. Good bye.

Good bye. I'm sorry if you believe false teachers from the Reformation - "the dead church", and not the Word of God. Those who still commit willful sins of lawlessness, or of the flesh, will never inherit the Kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21. And that doesn't just mean loss of rewards, but of eternal life. You must be born again of the Spirit of Christ who does not commit sins of lawlessness, but frees us from willful sin.

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Let me add...


Wesleyianism: John Wesley taught that the Christian could obtain a 'second state of grace' whereby they can live sinless in this world.

So, free will brings forth MANY errant beliefs. And all of them have been seen on this forum.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Wow! You are truly deceived. Good bye.

Yes, deceived by twisted Scripture. Seems like that happened in a garden somewhere.

"When's the last time you sinned?" The person lies and answers, smugly; "1977!"

Actually, it's really sad to see. Talked to one of these in the past, he changed when he sinned into "mistakes" so it was no longer sin. Convenient!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes, deceived by twisted Scripture. Seems like that happened in a garden somewhere.

"When's the last time you sinned?" The person lies and answers, smugly; "1977!"

Actually, it's really sad to see. Talked to one of these in the past, he changed when he sinned into "mistakes" so it was no longer sin. Convenient!

Because you two are Reformationists and probably don't know there are two kinds of sins taught in the same book, and I specified which I do not commit, it went right over your heads. I knew it would. I could teach you, but you would have to be filled with the Spirit to understand, as it is presently foolishness to you, so it would be a waste of time and just casting pearls before piglets.

 

[amadeus]

If the Christ could have sinned, God could have sinned, seeing the Christ is God. If God can sin, He is no better than you or I.

You have simply restated your position without answering my question or explaining especially the meaning of Heb 4:15.

Are we then to define Christ and to define God as we will rather than simply seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness? Can we really describe a box wherein God and/or Christ will precisely fit with no margin of error in any direction? How well do we know Him? How well can we know Him?

For what it is worth to I see the life of Jesus to the Father paralleling the life of Joseph to Pharaoh:

"Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt." Gen 40:40-41

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Matt 28:18

Joseph was the shadow of Jesus which was and is the reality.

Jesus did what Adam was unable to do. He resisted sin and thus overcame the world of his corruptible flesh. If he was unable to sin then he did not overcome and to say so we make him a liar...

You want to explain it all so it fits the way you or others have decided it should be instead of simply continuing to seek first things first...

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

 

[farouk]

I don't congratulate myself; it was completely a work of grace that the Lord did in my life; this does not change the fact that He gave me a choice in the matter of whether I would receive or reject Him. The fact that I received Him does not indicate any virtue on my part...it simply means that I saw the gospel presented clearly enough to realize that the only sane option was to receive Him.

'All of grace, yes, grace surpassing,
Such a portion to bestow,
But the love, all knowledge passing,
Grace has taught us now to know.

Love that bore the stripes and sorrow,
Love that suffered on the tree,
Love that shares the bright tomorrow,
With the loved ones, you and me'

 

[farouk]

@"ByGrace" Thanks for the 'like'...

 

[Helen]

'All of grace, yes, grace surpassing,
Such a portion to bestow,
But the love, all knowledge passing,
Grace has taught us now to know.

Love that bore the stripes and sorrow,
Love that suffered on the tree,
Love that shares the bright tomorrow,
With the loved ones, you and me'

I " liked" very much..but it really deserves a --

..

 

[farouk]

I " liked" very much..but it really deserves a --

..View attachment 6000

 

[justbyfaith]

They just can't grasp it. The cross actually saves.

They think that since they exercised faith and repentance, they are saved. But it was the cross that did it for them.

These are not in contradiction to each other. Is it such a hard thing to grasp that we must repent towards and also place our faith in the Cross?

Sadly, they do not truly believe the cross saved them, but the cross and their works saved them.

You again show forth your faulty opinion that faith and works are one and the same thing. Faith and works are mutually exclusive when it comes to what saves us, Ephesians 2:8-9. We place our faith in the Cross; and this is not a work according to the scripture mentioned.

But you say, John 5:28-29. I would say that in that passage Jesus is addressing those who would insist that their salvation is by works. He there identifies faith as a work saying that if you are going to be saved by works, simple faith in me is the only work that will save. But He is using a literary tactic. In all reality He is not saying that faith is a work; because it becomes clear later (in Ephesians 2:8-9) that we are saved by grace through faith and not of works. So if I am saved through faith and this is not of works, how can faith be a work? In John 5:28-29 Jesus points them to faith, who cannot fathom salvation apart from works: in all reality faith and works are mutually exclusive but if you insist on being saved by works I will call faith a work that is the only work that will ever save you.

 

[CoreIssue]

As the Bible says it was the resurrection of Christ, not cross.

But Christ could only enter the grave via the cross.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You have simply restated your position without answering my question or explaining especially the meaning of Heb 4:15.

Are we then to define Christ and to define God as we will rather than simply seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness? Can we really describe a box wherein God and/or Christ will precisely fit with no margin of error in any direction? How well do we know Him? How well can we know Him?

For what it is worth to I see the life of Jesus to the Father paralleling the life of Joseph to Pharaoh:

"Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt." Gen 40:40-41

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Matt 28:18

Joseph was the shadow of Jesus which was and is the reality.

Jesus did what Adam was unable to do. He resisted sin and thus overcame the world of his corruptible flesh. If he was unable to sin then he did not overcome and to say so we make him a liar...

You want to explain it all so it fits the way you or others have decided it should be instead of simply continuing to seek first things first...

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Just because the Christ could not sin, that does not make those temptations any less real.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You have simply restated your position without answering my question or explaining especially the meaning of Heb 4:15.

Are we then to define Christ and to define God as we will rather than simply seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness? Can we really describe a box wherein God and/or Christ will precisely fit with no margin of error in any direction? How well do we know Him? How well can we know Him?

For what it is worth to I see the life of Jesus to the Father paralleling the life of Joseph to Pharaoh:

"Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt." Gen 40:40-41

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Matt 28:18

Joseph was the shadow of Jesus which was and is the reality.

Jesus did what Adam was unable to do. He resisted sin and thus overcame the world of his corruptible flesh. If he was unable to sin then he did not overcome and to say so we make him a liar...

You want to explain it all so it fits the way you or others have decided it should be instead of simply continuing to seek first things first...

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Well @amadeus you've misused a lot of Scripture trying to prove some case up above.

However, since you believe YHWH can sin, what would have happened if he did? What would have happened to the integrity of YHWH concerning all his prophesies of Christ?

 

[amadeus]

Just because the Christ could not sin, that does not make those temptations any less real.

Who was tempted? Was God tempted?

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:" James 1:13

Makes for a quandary when we try to resolve with logic alone. Jesus was tempted yet according to James, God cannot be tempted...

You imply that the temptations were real yet how would you explain what is written in Heb 4:15 and James 1:13?
What is reality and what is fiction? What is truth and what is a lie?

 

[amadeus]

Well @amadeus you've misused a lot of Scripture trying to prove some case up above.

However, since you believe YHWH can sin, what would have happened if he did? What would have happened to the integrity of YHWH concerning all his prophesies of Christ?

Did I prove some case? What have I misused? I quoted some scripture and asked some questions which no one has really attempted to answer... Who has the correct answers?

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Did I prove some case? What have I misused? I quoted some scripture and asked some questions which no one has really attempted to answer... Who has the correct answers?

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7

Yes, you tried to prove something by providing Scripture, unless you were giving a daily devotion.

My goodness @amadeus, answer the question. The passage you've used above is non sequitur. What really does it have to do with what we are discussing???

Here is what I asked: "However, since you believe YHWH can sin, what would have happened if he did? What would have happened to the integrity of YHWH concerning all his prophesies of Christ?"

Please provide your answer. If you have a clarified question, I will be glad to attempt to answer it.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Who was tempted? Was God tempted?

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:" James 1:13

Makes for a quandary when we try to resolve with logic alone. Jesus was tempted yet according to James, God cannot be tempted...

You imply that the temptations were real yet how would you explain what is written in Heb 4:15 and James 1:13?
What is reality and what is fiction? What is truth and what is a lie?

Has God ever been tempted?

 

[amadeus]

Yes, you tried to prove something by providing Scripture, unless you were giving a daily devotion.

My goodness @amadeus, answer the question. The passage you've used above is non sequitur. What really does it have to do with what we are discussing???

Here is what I asked: "However, since you believe YHWH can sin, what would have happened if he did? What would have happened to the integrity of YHWH concerning all his prophesies of Christ?"

Please provide your answer. If you have a clarified question, I will be glad to attempt to answer it.

Hypotheticals are what so often get men in trouble. If Adam and Eve had not disobeyed God, what would have happened? That was the first man Adam. The apostle Paul speaks of the two, the first and the last:

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." I Cor 15:45

The first had Life but effectively ended it with disobedience. The last provided the means to bring to Life again or quicken. Why could the first Adam sin? Is God a respecter of persons that the second did not effectively have the same choices: God or mammon?

 

[CoreIssue]

Just because the Christ could not sin, that does not make those temptations any less real.

What not, not good not.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Hypotheticals are what so often get men in trouble. If Adam and Eve had not disobeyed God, what would have happened? That was the first man Adam. The apostle Paul speaks of the two, the first and the last:

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." I Cor 15:45

The first had Life but effectively ended it with disobedience. The last provided the means to bring to Life again or quicken. Why could the first Adam sin? Is God a respecter of persons that the second did not effectively have the same choices: God or mammon?

Sigh...now you're misusing "respecter of persons." Try to use Scripture correctly instead of just liberally misapplying many texts. 2 Timothy 2:15?

Can you answer the question? It was plain and simple.

Thank you.