Why The Seventy Weeks Are 490 Days - To Be Interpreted As Years

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Phoneman777

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Language used Genesis is the same used in Daniel.

Spying for 40 days happened at the end of the 40 years.

You don't understand figurative speech on the message to Herod?

You have not given one example to support your case on the 2300 days.

A day is 1000 years until the Lord in the day of the Lord will last 2000 years.

So I understand that plus one a week of of years is.

But when it says evening and a morning is not a year.

By your idea Jesus didn't resurrect for three years.
Doesn't matter if it's the same...if you can't see the diff between Genesis' account of history and prophetic passages with deal with the future in all its symbolic glory, then you'll never accept the truth of the Day/Year principle.
 

Phoneman777

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Language used Genesis is the same used in Daniel.

Spying for 40 days happened at the end of the 40 years.

You don't understand figurative speech on the message to Herod?

You have not given one example to support your case on the 2300 days.

A day is 1000 years until the Lord in the day of the Lord will last 2000 years.

So I understand that plus one a week of of years is.

But when it says evening and a morning is not a year.

By your idea Jesus didn't resurrect for three years.
Spying occurred 40 years PRIOR to the wilderness march.

You don't understand Jesus didn't mean "today tommorow third day, but "this year, next year, and the year after"?

Yes, Jesus resurrected 3 years after making tha comment
 

CoreIssue

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Spying occurred 40 years PRIOR to the wilderness march.

You don't understand Jesus didn't mean "today tommorow third day, but "this year, next year, and the year after"?

Yes, Jesus resurrected 3 years after making tha comment
40 years prior they were in Egypt.
 

Bobby Jo

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Most of us know ....
... the LIES, but apparently NOBODY on this Forum has a clue as to the TRUTH.


You know, if you OBEYED the angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9, which dictate these prophecies for the era approximate to 1948, you MIGHT have a chance of receiving the TRUTH of Scripture. -- But what fun would that be?!? :)

Bobby Jo
 
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Phoneman777

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40 years prior they were in Egypt.
Try to follow what I'm saying:
  1. Israel spied out the land for 40 days.
  2. The majority demonstrated a lack of faith when they returned.
  3. God decided to punish them for their lack of faith.
  4. He said since they spied out for 40 DAYS, they would wander the wilderness 40 YEARS, EACH DAY FOR A YEAR.
"Day/Year Principle" at work here, as well as in Ezekiel, in Luke, in Genesis with Jacob working for Rachel, etc. Why do Dispensationalists look on that principle as if it just landed from Mars? Because their Jesuit Futurism crumbles before it.
 

CoreIssue

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Try to follow what I'm saying:
  1. Israel spied out the land for 40 days.
  2. The majority demonstrated a lack of faith when they returned.
  3. God decided to punish them for their lack of faith.
  4. He said since they spied out for 40 DAYS, they would wander the wilderness 40 YEARS, EACH DAY FOR A YEAR.
"Day/Year Principle" at work here, as well as in Ezekiel, in Luke, in Genesis with Jacob working for Rachel, etc. Why do Dispensationalists look on that principle as if it just landed from Mars? Because their Jesuit Futurism crumbles before it.
And you are wrong.

Israel spent 40 years in the world knows from Egypt to the promised land.

The spies were sent out to get the lay of the land for their invasion to start. Which they did.

Remember them coming back with the grapes on a pole?
 

1stCenturyLady

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Most of us know about the prophecy Daniel was shown in chapter 8 and that he understood all of it as it was explained to him: the ram, the two horns, the goat, the notable horn, the four horns, the little horn, etc. - EXCEPT there was a portion that so confused and blew his mind that he:
  • literally passed out cold
  • was sick many days
  • searched in vain for someone to clear up the confusion
  • searched the Scriptures for answers
  • finally fasted with supplications and ashes and sackcloth
  • ...and sought the only One Who could provide answers in prayer.
That portion of the prophecy is the well known "2,300 Days" portion. While the Hebrew word "chazon" ("vision") is used to describe the entire prophecy in chapter 8, the word "mareh" is used exclusively to refer to the "2,300 Days" portion of it.

This
is
crucial.


QUESTION: As the 70 year captivity drew to a close, would Daniel have suffered such a tremendous physiological and psychological hiccup if those 2,300 Days were referring to a short little period of just over 6 years? What is another 6 years when compared to the entire 70 years which was coming to a close?

ANSWER: No. Daniel knew full well those 2,300 days were symbolic days which referred to another two thousand three hundred YEARS...and that's why Daniel's world turned upside down. He's expecting Israel to go home soon and yet hears about another 2,300 years of enemy triumph...enough to drive a lesser man insane.
Here's where it all ties together:
In chapter 9, Gabriel tells Daniel he's come to grant him "skill and understanding...(about what???)...therefore understand the matter and consider the 'mareh'". Gabriel unequivocally tells Daniel and us that he's there to school him about the "mareh" - the 2,300 Days portion of the prophecy, which I remind you he refers to as "mareh" in chapter 8, and is the only portion about which Daniel is so confused.

And what words does Gabriel immediately begin to speak when he starts to clear up Daniel's confusion? "Seventy Weeks are determined upon thy people and thy holy city..."

Therefore, there is no other way to interpret these passages except that the 70 Weeks are "determined" ("cut off") from the only other time period from which they can possibly be cut off - the 2,300 Days.

And, since the 2,300 Days are symbolic days, as Daniel knew all too well, and require them to be interpreted by the Day/Year principle as 2,300 literal years, so must these symbolic 70 Weeks also be interpreted as 490 literal years.

Prophecy is given in symbolism - not only the beasts, horns, and winds, but also the days, weeks, months, years - and since the the Day/Year Principle is hereby established beyond all doubt, we cannot expect to maintain credibility by acknowledging usage of the Day/Year Principle in Daniel, but insist that Revelation - the most symbolic of all Bible books - speaks of literal time periods that require no interpretation.

Hi phoneman.

There is a difference in the prophetic significance in the writing of the words "70 weeks," and the "2300 evenings and mornings." They don't both refer to day/year. You are correct on the 490 years of Daniel 9. But the adding of the "evenings and mornings" signifies those are actual days, not prophetic years.

The 2300 days are actually 6.39 years, a time during his 11 year reign that Antiochus Epiphanes IV, the little horn of Daniel 8, ruled and desecrated the temple. It was Maccabees that cleansed the temple.

Daniel 8:
In the third year of the reign of King Belshazzar (last king of Babylon) a vision appeared to me—to me, Daniel—after the one that appeared to me the first time. 2 I saw in the vision, and it so happened while I was looking, that I was in Shushan, the citadel, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in the vision that I was by the River Ulai. 3 Then I lifted my eyes and saw, and there, standing beside the river, was a ram which had two horns, (Medo-Persia) and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other (Persia), and the higher one came up last. 4 I saw the ram pushing westward, northward, and southward, so that no animal could withstand him; nor was there any that could deliver from his hand, but he did according to his will and became great.

5 And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat (Greece) came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.(Alexander the Great of Greece) 6 Then he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing beside the river, and ran at him with furious power. 7 And I saw him confronting the ram; he was moved with rage against him, attacked the ram, and broke his two horns. There was no power in the ram to withstand him, but he cast him down to the ground and trampled him; and there was no one that could deliver the ram from his hand. (the end of Medo-Persia).
8 Therefore the male goat grew very great; but when he became strong, the large horn was broken (the death of Alexander the Great), and in place of it four notable ones came up toward the four winds of heaven (the four generals of Alexander the Great divided the land between the four of them). 9 And out of one of the four came a little horn (Antiochus Ephiphanes IV) which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. (Jerusalem)10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them.(they slaughtered many Jews) 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. (Antiochus Epiphanes IV slaughtered a pig on the altar and made the Jews watch)12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered. (Read Maccabees if you can stomach it for the history of this madman.)

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, “How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?” (Antiochus Ephiphes IV rule over Jerusalem was from 175 BC to 164 BC; but the Jewish revolt started in 167 BC to 160 BC when they ceremoniously cleansed the second temple, called Herod's Temple which was where Jesus went. The Temple itself was from 516 BC to 70 AD.

14 And he said to me, “For two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.” (6 1/3 years - 2300 days - from 167 to 160 BC)
 
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CoreIssue

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Hi phoneman.

There is a difference in the prophetic significance in the writing of the words "70 weeks," and the "2300 evenings and mornings." They don't both refer to day/year. You are correct on the 490 years of Daniel 9. But the adding of the "evenings and mornings" signifies those are actual days, not prophetic years.

The 2300 days are actually 6.39 years, a time during his 11 year reign that Antiochus Epiphanes IV, the little horn of Daniel 8, ruled and desecrated the temple. It was Maccabees that cleansed the temple.

Daniel 8:
8 Therefore the male goat grew very great; but when he became strong, the large horn was broken (the death of Alexander the Great), and in place of it four notable ones came up toward the four winds of heaven (the four generals of Alexander the Great). 9 And out of one of them came a little horn (Antiochus Ephiphanes IV) which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land.10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered. (Read Maccabees if you can stomach it for the history of this madman.)

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, “How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?”

14 And he said to me, “For two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.”
The passage is one of many of dual meaning and the Bible. Both historical and prophetic.
 

Phoneman777

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No I do not.
Then you'll have to agree that the 2,300 Days began in the past because part of that period chronicles the "little horn" that arises after the fall of the "he-goat" Greece.

That's why the 70 Weeks, which are literally 490 years, are "cut off" from the 2,300 Days, which are 2,300 literal years.
 

Phoneman777

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And you are wrong.

Israel spent 40 years in the world knows from Egypt to the promised land.

The spies were sent out to get the lay of the land for their invasion to start. Which they did.

Remember them coming back with the grapes on a pole?
Israel didn't come back with those grapes AFTER the 40 year sojourn - they came back with them BEFORE the sojourn. And their lack of faith led God to delay their entrance into Canaan until the last of the unbelieving died in the desert 40 years later. Please go back and re-read the chapters.
 

Phoneman777

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Hi phoneman.

There is a difference in the prophetic significance in the writing of the words "70 weeks," and the "2300 evenings and mornings."
WADR, that's subjective reasoning. How is "evenings and mornings" any different than saying "days" when Genesis is plain that they are one and the same?

"...and the evening and the morning were the (first, second, third, etc.) day".

If we're going to be consistent in our interpretation of prophecy, then we have to recognize "time" is just as symbolic as "heads", "horns", etc.

Besides, we cannot gloss over the fact that the primary reason Gabriel opens his mouth in description of the 70 Weeks is to give Daniel "skill and understanding" about the very thing he was confused about: the 2,300 Days. Gabriel says, "Daniel, I'm here to explain the "vision" ("mareh" which is the 2,300 Days portion), so listen up: Seventy Weeks are "cut off"..." What other time period can possibly be that from which the 70 Weeks is cut off but the the only other period that is mentioned, is alone contextual, and stares all of us right in the face: the 2,300? From what other time period is the 70 cut off, if not?
 

1stCenturyLady

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WADR, that's subjective reasoning. How is "evenings and mornings" any different than saying "days" when Genesis is plain that they are one and the same?

Of course they are the same. That is what I'm telling you. Unless you are saying that each day of creation (the evening and the morning) was a year? No! It was a 24 hour period, the same as I am pointing out in Daniel 8 - 2300 evenings and mornings/24-hour days. It is not subjective but distinctive. What MAKES it a 24 hour period instead of "prophetic" time of day/year IS the inclusion of the description of evening and morning. Understand? And that is also why we know the days of creation were also 24 hour periods, BECAUSE of the distinction of "evening and morning." Without that distinction it very well could be in prophetic years, but with the distinction it is confirming that they are merely ordinary 24 hour days. And with the 360 day year, makes it about 6 1/3 years, the timing of the Jewish revolt led by Maccabees, and the cleansing of the temple from 167 BC to 160 BC, after Antiochus Epiphanes IV defiled it by placing a pig on the altar. His reign was 175 BC to 164 BC.

If you are saying that the 2300 days were 2300 years, what date did it end, and what was the significance toward the restoring of what holy place?

The 70 week prophecy is 490 YEARS. We agree on that. But the 2300 day prophecy and the 70 weeks prophecy have nothing to do with each other. They are entirely two different prophecies, but with the paradigm of the mirroring of an abomination of desolation. Antiochus Epiphanes IV is a paradigm of the future Antichrist and that is significant.
 
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CoreIssue

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Then you'll have to agree that the 2,300 Days began in the past because part of that period chronicles the "little horn" that arises after the fall of the "he-goat" Greece.

That's why the 70 Weeks, which are literally 490 years, are "cut off" from the 2,300 Days, which are 2,300 literal years.
Greece still exists today.

The little horn was prophetic. It is talking about now and the near future.

2300 years was invented by the SDA and stated to be 1844.
 

CoreIssue

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Israel didn't come back with those grapes AFTER the 40 year sojourn - they came back with them BEFORE the sojourn. And their lack of faith led God to delay their entrance into Canaan until the last of the unbelieving died in the desert 40 years later. Please go back and re-read the chapters.
So you're saying they had access to the promised land from Egypt.
 

Bobby Jo

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It seems you just make it up as you go.

For those who offer their "council" without the benefit have actually having read the Bible, please allow the following:

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

But don't worry, it's only the words of an angel, and apparently he's not near as important as the lies of men.



Bobby Jo
 

Bobby Jo

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Then you'll have to agree that the 2,300 Days began in the past because part of that period chronicles the "little horn" that arises after the fall of the "he-goat" Greece.

That's why the 70 Weeks, which are literally 490 years, are "cut off" from the 2,300 Days, which are 2,300 literal years.

I'm not sure whether you're intentionally misleading your audience, or whether you're actually as ill informed as your appear. It might help if you started with the angel's instructions, but some people are beyond help.


Bobby Jo
 
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Bobby Jo

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... The 70 week prophecy is 490 YEARS. ...

If this were true, than Daniel would have used the normal CONCISE Feminine Gender text which is used in all other Scriptural citations. I.e., 70 "sevens" = 490. But he didn't. Instead we find the ONLY instance in all Scripture where Daniel specifically used the INCONCISE MASCULINE GENDER TEXT for this 9th Chapter. Thus 70 [sevens] ≠ 490 .

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[1]

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[2]


[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217
[2] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 218


You know, the angel stated that these prophecies are not to be opened until approximately 1948. Now if people can't follow instructions, then the results will be less than accurate. And if you believe the liars, then your understanding will be accordingly.

Have you considered obeying the angel to arrive at the TRUTH, or are you content with the lies??


Bobby Jo