Why Was Cain’s Sacrifice Rejected by God?

[Phoneman777]

Abel is the subject in the sentence and no, it isn't a rule of thumb in this case.

My mistake - ”Firstlings” and “fat” are OBJECTS (not subjects) upon which “brought” is acting.

However, “of the flock”, being a prepositional phrase, cannot be the object of “brought”. The rule of thumb stands. Abel separated the fat.

 

[Butterfly]

Okay, so I am a firm believer in the application of scripture, so what does this part of scripture say to us in the 21st century, post the resurrection - is it a warning,encouragment, clarification, confirming, understanding - what does it say to you.
Please I don't want this to become a ' your wrong , I am right ' thread- I merely want to gain from the insights and thoughts of others as I endeavour to work out what it says to me - as I said sometimes I get a bit confused about the sacrifices. I can see how it could be a warning about the spiritual battle, how pride and vanity can creep in, how one thing leads on to another, how the fall affected everything. What about the relationship between the Lord and people.
Any thoughts would be appreciated
Rita

 

[FHII]

As for “of the flock”, you are incorrect - by virtue of the fact that it’s a prepositional phrase, it cannot be the object of “took”. The rule of thumb stands. Abel separated the fat.

If you see it that way, fine. I disagree, but it's a small thing to argue about.

 

[Phoneman777]

If you see it that way, fine. I disagree, but it's a small thing to argue about.

Cant help it. It’s the whole male “right brain” thing. Facts are paramount for those in whom “the heart is deceitful above all things”.

BTW, I updated that post about jumbling up the subjects with objects.

 

[FHII]

Cant help it. It’s the whole male “right brain” thing. Facts are paramount for those in whom “the heart is deceitful above all things”.

I'm the same way... It's a fight to let things go. But it's time to move on.

(I'm still right, though!)

 

[Helen]

I found this interesting;

The story of Cain and Abel is highlighted here. Abel’s sacrifice was accepted not because it was animal rather than vegetable but because it stemmed from genuine trust, a matter of the heart and not just of ritual.

Hacking, P. H. (2006). Opening up Hebrews (p. 71). Leominster: Day One Publications.

Good one, I like that...well found bro.

 

[Phoneman777]

Okay, so I am a firm believer in the application of scripture, so what does this part of scripture say to us in the 21st century, post the resurrection - is it a warning,encouragment, clarification, confirming, understanding - what does it say to you.
Please I don't want this to become a ' your wrong , I am right ' thread- I merely want to gain from the insights and thoughts of others as I endeavour to work out what it says to me - as I said sometimes I get a bit confused about the sacrifices. I can see how it could be a warning about the spiritual battle, how pride and vanity can creep in, how one thing leads on to another, how the fall affected everything. What about the relationship between the Lord and people.
Any thoughts would be appreciated
Rita

Really, there’s several things but “Duty” is probably at the top of the list: God basically said, “Look, Cain, if you obey, no problem, but if not, sin gets to be your boss, but YOU are supposed to be HIS boss. So choose

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I found this interesting;

The story of Cain and Abel is highlighted here. Abel’s sacrifice was accepted not because it was animal rather than vegetable but because it stemmed from genuine trust, a matter of the heart and not just of ritual.

Hacking, P. H. (2006). Opening up Hebrews (p. 71). Leominster: Day One Publications.

Good point. It needed to be a blood sacrifice if it was meant as a covering for sin but there were other kinds of sacrifices. Interesting that Abel thought to make a sin offering and Cain apparently did not see the need. I wonder if Cain and Abel had quarreled and Abel thought to confess his sin to God and make the proper sacrifice. Cain seems to have had a more cavalier attitude about sin, such that even after being warned about it by God ("sin is crouching at your door") he throws it in God's face, by rising up and killing his brother. It was an outrageous act--not only the first murder but the murder of his own brother! If Cain had that in his heart, no wonder that God did not accept his sacrifice.

The prophets later scolded that the attitudes of the Israelites were the problem when they brought their sacrifices and that it made the sacrifices unacceptable. And even later, Jesus taught that if you are presenting a sacrifice and you suddenly remember that your relationship with someone has gone sour, to go and be reconciled to that person before coming back to offer your sacrifice (Matthew 5:24).

 

[bbyrd009]

I desire mercy, not sacrifice

King Saul is I believe a perfect example of this. Chosen by God to be King. (1 Sam. 10:1) Samuel the prophet promised that Saul would be given a new heart by the Spirit of God and that he would prophecy by that Spirit. (1 Sam. 10:6-9) Which did occur. (10:10-11)

But of course we know Saul sinned against God and intruded upon the office of Priest and made sacrifices instead of waiting for Samuel the prophet. This cost him the kingdom. (1 Sam. 13:14) (15:28) Thus now he who was changed by the Spirit of God becomes an enemy to God's people so that Samuel the prophet feared him. (16:2) For the Spirit of God no longer motivated Saul. An evil spirit sent by God did. (16:15) Isn't that something? You reject God, and you receive an evil spirit sent by God. Either way, you are motivated by Spirit/spirit.

^

Blood covers sin. Grain does not.

God covered Adam and Eve with the fur of slain animals covering their sin.

Or at least so we are encouraged to read, by adding, I guess. But no animals were slain in the text? no slain, no fur, no animals, etc, which they did have words for right?

 

[bbyrd009]

If you had read our post

Hmm, how many legions do we have in herenow?
You gotta be aware that this is just a way to claim that you are God, yes?
How many do you think might even read past this declaration/question?
I mean, don't stop on my account, ok, but yikes?

 

[bbyrd009]

No. Born again cleanses the spirit, not the heart.

The Holy Spirit did not indwell and cleanse anyone until after the resurrection. That requires requires blood of Christ.

I don't think so, wadr, mostly bc you are talking like you know something, when we can all be assured that you do not, no offense meant though

 

[charity]

Sure we can speculate and that's all I am doing.

I simply did not set a land on one answer. Because I do not know.
We do not know if God told them or if God honored them later.
With the fact that God clothes Adam and Eve in skins of animals he had killed is a pretty strong hint that they picked up on that.
The way you are stating makes the blood sacrifice law. But the law at that time was the law of conscience. The next laws to be given were to Moses.

'By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain,
by which he obtained witness that he was righteous,
God testifying of his gifts:
and by it he being dead yet speaketh.'
(Hebrews 11:4)

Hello @CoreIssue

It is not speculation to believe what God said concerning Abel in the verse above, that by faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain. It is not speculation to consider the offering of Cain, in the light of this, and judge, that it was because his offering was not offered by faith that it was rejected.

* For Abel to offer an offering by faith, he had to have heard what God required, for faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. God must have spoken, even though His words are not recorded, in order for Abel to act by faith in accordance with God's known will .

* Cain, must also have heard to have brought an offering at all: the fact that it was not accepted, indicates he did not believe God, but chose an offering of his own devising. Therefore it was not a sacrifice born of faith in the known will of God, and was consequently rejected.

" This is not assumption, but deduction, based on the evidence provided in Hebrews 11:4, and the record of Genesis 4.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Butterfly]

Really, there’s several things but “Duty” is probably at the top of the list: God basically said, “Look, Cain, if you obey, no problem, but if not, sin gets to be your boss, but YOU are supposed to be HIS boss. So choose

Just better add, it's not all the sacrifices I don't understand- I understand the sacrifice for sin and atonement , it's some of the other ones that I have not completely understood- from my prospective Jesus covered them all, so it's really understanding exactly what they were doing back then, and why.
In all my years of listening to sermons, I have never heard one on the sacrifices ( other than the sin offering ) !!
Rita

 

[bbyrd009]

Okay, so I am a firm believer in the application of scripture, so what does this part of scripture say to us in the 21st century, post the resurrection - is it a warning,encouragment, clarification, confirming, understanding - what does it say to you.
Please I don't want this to become a ' your wrong , I am right ' thread- I merely want to gain from the insights and thoughts of others as I endeavour to work out what it says to me - as I said sometimes I get a bit confused about the sacrifices. I can see how it could be a warning about the spiritual battle, how pride and vanity can creep in, how one thing leads on to another, how the fall affected everything. What about the relationship between the Lord and people.
Any thoughts would be appreciated
Rita

You might contemplate the flock and the fat as not literal tings, but representative of Abel's "sacrifice," by which I do not mean the killing of an animal to offer on a literal altar. Um, I guess this is not so easy, we easily add "God killed an animal" to "made a coat of skins," and etc, along the same lines I guess. But you might contemplate symbolic meanings for Flock or even Fat pretty easily I guess

 

[CoreIssue]

'By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain,
by which he obtained witness that he was righteous,
God testifying of his gifts:
and by it he being dead yet speaketh.'
(Hebrews 11:4)

Hello @CoreIssue

It is not speculation to believe what God said concerning Abel in the verse above, that by faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain. It is not speculation to consider the offering of Cain, in the light of this, and judge, that it was because his offering was not offered by faith that it was rejected.

* For Abel to offer an offering by faith, he had to have heard what God required, for faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. God must have spoken, even though His words are not recorded, in order for Abel to act by faith in accordance with God's known will .

* Cain, must also have heard to have brought an offering at all: the fact that it was not accepted, indicates he did not believe God, but choosing an offering of his own devising. Therefore it was not a sacrifice born of faith in the known will of God, so was rejected.

" This is not assumption, but deduction, based on the evidence provided in Hebrews 11:4, and the record of Genesis 4.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

The assumption is God told them what the sacrifice should be. A claim which we can neither prove or reject. It is an assumption.

That is the point of discussion.

 

[Dave L]

'By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain,
by which he obtained witness that he was righteous,
God testifying of his gifts:
and by it he being dead yet speaketh.'
(Hebrews 11:4)

Hello @CoreIssue

It is not speculation to believe what God said concerning Abel in the verse above, that by faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain. It is not speculation to consider the offering of Cain, in the light of this, and judge, that it was because his offering was not offered by faith that it was rejected.

* For Abel to offer an offering by faith, he had to have heard what God required, for faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. God must have spoken, even though His words are not recorded, in order for Abel to act by faith in accordance with God's known will .

* Cain, must also have heard to have brought an offering at all: the fact that it was not accepted, indicates he did not believe God, but chose an offering of his own devising. Therefore it was not a sacrifice born of faith in the known will of God, and was consequently rejected.

" This is not assumption, but deduction, based on the evidence provided in Hebrews 11:4, and the record of Genesis 4.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Like your new pic. Also good comments.......

 

[bbyrd009]

'By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain,
by which he obtained witness that he was righteous,
God testifying of his gifts:
and by it he being dead yet speaketh.'
(Hebrews 11:4)

Hello @CoreIssue

It is not speculation to believe what God said concerning Abel in the verse above, that by faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain. It is not speculation to consider the offering of Cain, in the light of this, and judge, that it was because his offering was not offered by faith that it was rejected.

* For Abel to offer an offering by faith, he had to have heard what God required, for faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. God must have spoken, even though His words are not recorded, in order for Abel to act by faith in accordance with God's known will .

* Cain, must also have heard to have brought an offering at all: the fact that it was not accepted, indicates he did not believe God, but chose an offering of his own devising. Therefore it was not a sacrifice born of faith in the known will of God, and was consequently rejected.

" This is not assumption, but deduction, based on the evidence provided in Hebrews 11:4, and the record of Genesis 4.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I know this is weird, but imo the biggest lack here would be to assume that literal offerings or sacrifices--the way we understand them now--are what are being discussed there

 

[charity]

The assumption is God told them what the sacrifice should be. A claim which we can neither prove or reject. It is an assumption.

That is the point of discussion.

Hello again, @CoreIssue,

On the contrary, if you believe that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, then God must have told them the acceptable manner of approach to Himself, otherwise Abel could not be said to have acted in faith, by offering a lamb. Neither would there be a just reason for not accepting the offering of Cain. God is just, and so He must have made both men aware of His will in regard to the offering of a sacrifice.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[farouk]

'By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain,
by which he obtained witness that he was righteous,
God testifying of his gifts:
and by it he being dead yet speaketh.'
(Hebrews 11:4)

Hello @CoreIssue

It is not speculation to believe what God said concerning Abel in the verse above, that by faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain. It is not speculation to consider the offering of Cain, in the light of this, and judge, that it was because his offering was not offered by faith that it was rejected.

* For Abel to offer an offering by faith, he had to have heard what God required, for faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. God must have spoken, even though His words are not recorded, in order for Abel to act by faith in accordance with God's known will .

* Cain, must also have heard to have brought an offering at all: the fact that it was not accepted, indicates he did not believe God, but chose an offering of his own devising. Therefore it was not a sacrifice born of faith in the known will of God, and was consequently rejected.

" This is not assumption, but deduction, based on the evidence provided in Hebrews 11:4, and the record of Genesis 4.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

This is a great verse from Hebrews 11; it shows that God honoured his offering in faith, but not Cain's attempt to gain favour by the fruit of his own efforts.

 

[charity]

'For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven
against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead;
so that they are without excuse:'
(Rom 1:18-20)
Hi @CoreIssue,

The witness of the heavens in Romans chapter one, was sufficient in itself to provide ground for justice, without a word being spoken, simply by the evidence provided by creation. It was sufficient witness in itself of God's power and Godhead, without a spoken word. However, here in Hebrews we have evidence that both Abel and Cain knew the known will of God regarding sacrifice, and that Abel acted upon it by faith, which was proved by it's acceptance: but Cain obviously did not, for his offering was not accepted.

In Christ Jesus
Chris