Why was "Gehenna" changed to "Hell"?

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Most common sect of Judaism, the Pharisees.
Any bible by them will have all the names of the lord written.
More specifically, they use "Onkelos" translation of the bible.
They call it,
"Tergum Onkelos".
Tergum stands for translation in Hebrew.
Interesting that they use a translation that was done by someone who was not Jewish by birth.
 

Johann

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Most common sect of Judaism, the Pharisees.
Any bible by them will have all the names of the lord written.
More specifically, they use "Onkelos" translation of the bible.
They call it,
"Tergum Onkelos".
Tergum stands for translation in Hebrew.
Interesting that they use a translation that was done by someone who was not Jewish by birth.
A slight correction-Targum Onkelos-and I would not recommend it.
Johann.

Biblical Relevance
Old Testament
Large portions of the biblical books Ezra (4:8–6:8 and 7:12–26) and Daniel (2:4–7:28) are written in Aramaic, as are Jer 10:11 and two words of Gen 31:47. Aramaic became an official language of the Assyrian and Babylonian empires and was eventually the official language of the Persian Empire. In Second Kings 18:26 Hezekiah’s officers say to the leaders of the Assyrian army, “Speak to your servants in Aramaic, for we understand it” (דַּבֶּר־נָ֤א אֶל־עֲבָדֶ֙יךָ֙ אֲרָמִ֔ית כִּ֥י שֹׁמְעִ֖ים אֲנָ֑חְנוּ, dabber-na' el-avadeikha aramith kiy shome'im anochnu). The Assyrians first encountered the Aramaic language when they conquered the Aramaean peoples living in Syria.
Aramaic influenced the Hebrew language, leading to many Aramaisms—borrowed Aramaic words or phrases—in the Hebrew Scriptures, especially in postexilic books or sections. Aramaic also helps linguists understand the meaning of related Hebrew words.
The Hebrew Bible was translated into Aramaic—these translations are known as Targums. The authors of the Targums vary in their translational approach. Some translated rather woodenly, while others translated more loosely and added interpretive elements. The Syriac Peshitta was influenced both by these Targums and by the Septuagint.
 
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face2face

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If anyone is interested I can send them extracts from the (revised) International standard Bible Encyclopedia on this subject.
F2F
 

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No sir, like I said it is defined. How did God define the lake of fire? A key to understanding is found by reading Rev 20:14, do you see now what it means?
God isn't defining the lake of fire. Humans do.

They do it for their own aggrandizement and self-importance. The church does it.

In any other use except church-talk the words DEATH and FIRE have a clear and consistent meaning. When it comes to church types the meanings of those words are obfuscated and perverted so as to promote church membership and to keep it by fear mongering.

There is no such thing as eternal torment. In order to justify this perversion of spiritual and physical reality the words DEATH and FIRE must be twisted into something they do not normally mean.

DEATH isn't death, but some lingering form of existence EXCEPT that the true meaning of death is the absence of existence. If life is the experience of reality, then death is the absence of it.

For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness. (Isaiah 38:18)

Death - "a permanent cessation of all vital functions; the end of life." (Merriam-Webster dictionary)

Logically, if there is no function there is no life. If there is no awareness, there can be no appreciation of punishment or anything else.

FIRE doesn't destroy, according to church myth. It continually and constantly hurts those who are cast into it. In reality the true meaning of fire is that it destroys absolutely completely and for all time. That which is consumed by it never exists again in any form.

As Sodom and Gomorrah were overthrown, along with their neighboring towns,” says the LORD, “so no one will live there; no people will dwell in it. (Jeremiah 49:18)

In the above description we read that the five cities of the kingdom of Sodom were utterly destroyed without hope of rebirth parole or forgiveness - forever. Forever here means the condition of destruction will never be reversed, not that the act of destruction continues.

the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. (Luke 17:29)

Fire - "the oxidation of a combustable substance. A specific instance of change that destroys something." (online dictionary)

In order for the myth of eternal torment to be promoted as truth the very meaning of its basic description, fire and death, must be flipped into a lie of its original meaning.

Therefore the myth of hell is a lie of the church, inspired by financial aggrandizement and the continuation of church leadership.

There is no eternal torment, but there IS death. Death is common to all, meaning dogs cats plants and humans. Humans have NO advantage over animals or plants. It is the same for all.

Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. (Ecclesiastes 3:19)

THIS IS WHY the Second Birth of the spirit of God is so adamantly insisted upon by Christ and the apostles. This is why they lived and died in the desire for this gift of God to be accepted by those who heard their speech and read their words.

There is no such thing as a human capacity to survive physical death, none whatsoever. When a human dies it dies just like any sick dog or cockroach. It is the spirit of God alone that give permanent life to those who accept it. '

Alas most humans will reject God's gracious offer. So be it. Let them die in their SINS.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
 
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Behold

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There is no such thing as eternal torment.

Here is what leads to "eternal torment"

John 3:36

Be sure to notice the word....>"REMAINS".... as that is "eternal"
-
-

New International Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

New Living Translation
And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.”

English Standard Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Berean Standard Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

Berean Literal Bible
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

King James Bible
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

New King James Version
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

New American Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

NASB 1995
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

NASB 1977
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
 

Robert Gwin

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God isn't defining the lake of fire. Humans do.

They do it for their own aggrandizement and self-importance. The church does it.

In any other use except church-talk the words DEATH and FIRE have a clear and consistent meaning. When it comes to church types the meanings of those words are obfuscated and perverted so as to promote church membership and to keep it by fear mongering.

There is no such thing as eternal torment. In order to justify this perversion of spiritual and physical reality the words DEATH and FIRE must be twisted into something they do not normally mean.

DEATH isn't death, but some lingering form of existence EXCEPT that the true meaning of death is the absence of existence. If life is the experience of reality, then death is the absence of it.

For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness. (Isaiah 38:18)

Death - "a permanent cessation of all vital functions; the end of life." (Merriam-Webster dictionary)

Logically, if there is no function there is no life. If there is no awareness, there can be no appreciation of punishment or anything else.

FIRE doesn't destroy, according to church myth. It continually and constantly hurts those who are cast into it. In reality the true meaning of fire is that it destroys absolutely completely and for all time. That which is consumed by it never exists again in any form.

As Sodom and Gomorrah were overthrown, along with their neighboring towns,” says the LORD, “so no one will live there; no people will dwell in it. (Jeremiah 49:18)

In the above description we read that the five cities of the kingdom of Sodom were utterly destroyed without hope of rebirth parole or forgiveness - forever. Forever here means the condition of destruction will never be reversed, not that the act of destruction continues.

the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. (Luke 17:29)

Fire - "the oxidation of a combustable substance. A specific instance of change that destroys something." (online dictionary)

In order for the myth of eternal torment to be promoted as truth the very meaning of its basic description, fire and death, must be flipped into a lie of its original meaning.

Therefore the myth of hell is a lie of the church, inspired by financial aggrandizement and the continuation of church leadership.

There is no eternal torment, but there IS death. Death is common to all, meaning dogs cats plants and humans. Humans have NO advantage over animals or plants. It is the same for all.

Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. (Ecclesiastes 3:19)

THIS IS WHY the Second Birth of the spirit of God is so adamantly insisted upon by Christ and the apostles. This is why they lived and died in the desire for this gift of God to be accepted by those who heard their speech and read their words.

There is no such thing as a human capacity to survive physical death, none whatsoever. When a human dies it dies just like any sick dog or cockroach. It is the spirit of God alone that give permanent life to those who accept it. '

Alas most humans will reject God's gracious offer. So be it. Let them die in their SINS.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
We believe the Bible is inspired of God sir, in other words His words not humans. The Bible defines death, as well as the lake of fire being the second death. Sorry we disagree RJ.
 

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We believe the Bible is inspired of God sir, in other words His words not humans. The Bible defines death, as well as the lake of fire being the second death. Sorry we disagree RJ.
How often have I read those words.

Even the Nazis claimed the word of God belonged to them. Didn't do them any good did it?

While its true the Bible is inspired of God, history PROVES that humans deny it and choose their own inspiration NOT of God.

TRUE, the Lake of Fire is the Second Death. Did I ever write otherwise? Not only do you refuse to understand God's Word you refuse to understand mine - however humble they may be.

What is arguable here is the nature of death. Did I not write that before? Yet you cleverly subvert my words and lie about what I wrote.

The Lake of Fire DESTROYS permanently and absolutely. No fire EVER allows something thrown into it to continue to exist - NONE. Show me a single verse of scripture that makes that claim (ie: that fire supports life rather than destroys it). You cannot quote such a verse because it doesn't exist.

Does the kingdom of S'dom still exist? There's nothing left of it but some curious sulfuric ashes (of a purity never seen on earth). It's destroyed forever - meaning it will never rise again upon the earth. THIS IS the meaning of forever where divine judgment is concerned. It is DEATH. It is absolute annihilation.

In order to justify the false dogma of eternal torment the simple words DEATH and FIRE must of necessity be perverted into meanings they do not normally enjoy. THIS IS WHY the world knows the present church doctrine is irrelevant. It has betrayed the gospel and turned its back upon its own god.

FIRE means irreversible destruction. If you don't 'get it' stick your head in one sometime. See what happens.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....
 

Mr E

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My understanding is that Gehenna was a place outside of Jerusalem that was used to burn garbage and that Jesus was symbolically using Gehenna as a metaphor for the Lake of Fire.

I share the view that Bible translators changed Gehenna to Hell for their own nefarious, purposes.

It's the name given for the valley of the son of Himmon. Gai-Ben-Hinnom.

It's from antiquity-- mentioned even by that name by the prophet Jeremiah. He mentions specifically what the place is known for-- referencing "Topeth" in this particular valley... It's a word directly associated with 'a roaster' -- for child sacrifice.

They have also built places of worship in a place called Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom so that they can sacrifice their sons and daughters by fire.
 

Davy

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My understanding is that Gehenna was a place outside of Jerusalem that was used to burn garbage and that Jesus was symbolically using Gehenna as a metaphor for the Lake of Fire.

I share the view that Bible translators changed Gehenna to Hell for their own nefarious, purposes.
If you have access to a 1st edition 1611 King James Bible, then it might have a side margin note by the translators pointing that out.

I haven't checked about geena in the 1st edition KJV to see if they gave an alternate reading, but I know in Isaiah 14:12 where they inserted the name "Lucifer", they also have "O Day Starre" in the side margin as an alternate reading, which is actually the more accurate translation from the Hebrew.

They used "Lucifer" instead because using Hebrew heylel 'morning star' would confuse the unstudied. So using "Lucifer" instead makes sure the reader knows that God is pointing to the devil trying to claim to be The Morning Star (Jesus Christ).
 

Johann

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If you have access to a 1st edition 1611 King James Bible, then it might have a side margin note by the translators pointing that out.

I haven't checked about geena in the 1st edition KJV to see if they gave an alternate reading, but I know in Isaiah 14:12 where they inserted the name "Lucifer", they also have "O Day Starre" in the side margin as an alternate reading, which is actually the more accurate translation from the Hebrew.

They used "Lucifer" instead because using Hebrew heylel 'morning star' would confuse the unstudied. So using "Lucifer" instead makes sure the reader knows that God is pointing to the devil trying to claim to be The Morning Star (Jesus Christ).
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer - day- star. A title truly belonging to Christ: Rev_22:16, "the bright and morning star," and therefore hereafter to be assumed by Antichrist, of whom Babylon is a type; also applied to the angelic "sons of God," "the morning stars" (Job_38:7). Gesenius, however, renders the Hebrew [ heeyleel (H1966), imperative Hiphil of yaalal (H3213)], here as in Eze_21:12; Zec_11:2, "howl." So Syriac. But the Septuagint, Vulgate, Chaldaic, and Arabic, as the English version (from the Hebrew, haalal (H1984), to shine), which is preferable because of the parallelism. The fall of Babylon as a self-idolizing power, the type of mystical Babylon in the Apocalypse (Rev_17:4-5), before the providence of God, is described in language drawn from the fall of Satan himself, the spirit that energized the pagan world-power, and now energizes the apostate Church, and shall hereafter energize the last secular Antichrist. Thus Lucifer has naturally come to be applied to Satan (Luk_10:18; Rev_12:8-9; Jud_1:6).

O Lucifer; son of the morning] In his splendour he is likened to the morning star; which was worshipped by the Babylonians under the name of Istar, and is described in Assyrian by an epithet, mustilil (shining star), which seems to correspond to the word here used (Schrader, Cuneiform Inscriptions, on this verse). The translation “Lucifer” (light-bearer) is quite correct, and is needlessly abandoned by the R.V. By some of the fathers the passage was applied to the fall of Satan (cf. Luk_10:18); hence the current use of Lucifer as a name of the devil.

Some interesting points.
Johann
אֵ֛יךְ
ʾêyk
ʔˈêḵ
אֵיךְ
inrg
H349
how
How

נָפַ֥לְתָּ
nāpaltā
nāfˌaltā
נפל
verb.qal.perf.p2.m.sg
H5307
[you]+ fall
you have fallen

מִ
mi
mi
מִן
prep
H4480
from
from
שָּׁמַ֖יִם
šāmayim
ššāmˌayim
שָׁמַיִם
subs.m.pl.a
H8064
heavens
heaven,

הֵילֵ֣ל
hêylēl
hêlˈēl
הֵילֵל
subs.m.sg.a
H1966
morning-star
O Morning Star,

בֶּן
ben
ben-
בֵּן
subs.m.sg.c
H1121
son
son
שָׁ֑חַר
šāḥar
šˈāḥar
שַׁחַר
subs.m.sg.a
H7837
dawn
of the dawn!
BDB2169 [H1966]
BDB2168 | BIBLICAL HEBREW | BDB2170
הֵילֵל noun masculine appellative shining one, epithet of king of Babylon, בֶּןשָֿׁ֑חַר ׳אֵיךְ נָפַלְתָּ מִשָּׁמַיִם ה Isa 14:12 how art thou fallen, shinning one, son of dawn ! i.e. star of the morning. (compare Assyrian muštilil, epithet of (Venus a) morning-star III R Isa 57:60 OppJAS 1871, 448 SchrSK 1874, 337 COTad. loc.)

הֵילֵ֣ל morning-star בֶּן son שָׁ֑חַר dawn

BSB O Morning Star, son of the dawn!
LEB morning star, son of dawn!
הֵילֵ֣ל[hêylēl / hêlˈēl]
Lexeme: הֵילֵל  Analytical Lexicon
Morphology code: subs.m.sg.a
Morphology: noun, masculine, singular, absolute
 
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Robert Gwin

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How often have I read those words.

Even the Nazis claimed the word of God belonged to them. Didn't do them any good did it?

While its true the Bible is inspired of God, history PROVES that humans deny it and choose their own inspiration NOT of God.

TRUE, the Lake of Fire is the Second Death. Did I ever write otherwise? Not only do you refuse to understand God's Word you refuse to understand mine - however humble they may be.

What is arguable here is the nature of death. Did I not write that before? Yet you cleverly subvert my words and lie about what I wrote.

The Lake of Fire DESTROYS permanently and absolutely. No fire EVER allows something thrown into it to continue to exist - NONE. Show me a single verse of scripture that makes that claim (ie: that fire supports life rather than destroys it). You cannot quote such a verse because it doesn't exist.

Does the kingdom of S'dom still exist? There's nothing left of it but some curious sulfuric ashes (of a purity never seen on earth). It's destroyed forever - meaning it will never rise again upon the earth. THIS IS the meaning of forever where divine judgment is concerned. It is DEATH. It is absolute annihilation.

In order to justify the false dogma of eternal torment the simple words DEATH and FIRE must of necessity be perverted into meanings they do not normally enjoy. THIS IS WHY the world knows the present church doctrine is irrelevant. It has betrayed the gospel and turned its back upon its own god.

FIRE means irreversible destruction. If you don't 'get it' stick your head in one sometime. See what happens.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....
We fully agree on the lake of fire sir. That is what the second death means, permanent.
 

Davy

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How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer - day- star. A title truly belonging to Christ: Rev_22:16, "the bright and morning star," and therefore hereafter to be assumed by Antichrist, of whom Babylon is a type; also applied to the angelic "sons of God," "the morning stars" (Job_38:7). Gesenius, however, renders the Hebrew [ heeyleel (H1966), imperative Hiphil of yaalal (H3213)], here as in Eze_21:12; Zec_11:2, "howl." So Syriac. But the Septuagint, Vulgate, Chaldaic, and Arabic, as the English version (from the Hebrew, haalal (H1984), to shine), which is preferable because of the parallelism. The fall of Babylon as a self-idolizing power, the type of mystical Babylon in the Apocalypse (Rev_17:4-5), before the providence of God, is described in language drawn from the fall of Satan himself, the spirit that energized the pagan world-power, and now energizes the apostate Church, and shall hereafter energize the last secular Antichrist. Thus Lucifer has naturally come to be applied to Satan (Luk_10:18; Rev_12:8-9; Jud_1:6).

O Lucifer; son of the morning] In his splendour he is likened to the morning star; which was worshipped by the Babylonians under the name of Istar, and is described in Assyrian by an epithet, mustilil (shining star), which seems to correspond to the word here used (Schrader, Cuneiform Inscriptions, on this verse). The translation “Lucifer” (light-bearer) is quite correct, and is needlessly abandoned by the R.V. By some of the fathers the passage was applied to the fall of Satan (cf. Luk_10:18); hence the current use of Lucifer as a name of the devil.

Some interesting points.
Johann
אֵ֛יךְ
ʾêyk
ʔˈêḵ
אֵיךְ
inrg
H349
how
How

נָפַ֥לְתָּ
nāpaltā
nāfˌaltā
נפל
verb.qal.perf.p2.m.sg
H5307
[you]+ fall
you have fallen

מִ
mi
mi
מִן
prep
H4480
from
from
שָּׁמַ֖יִם
šāmayim
ššāmˌayim
שָׁמַיִם
subs.m.pl.a
H8064
heavens
heaven,

הֵילֵ֣ל
hêylēl
hêlˈēl
הֵילֵל
subs.m.sg.a
H1966
morning-star
O Morning Star,

בֶּן
ben
ben-
בֵּן
subs.m.sg.c
H1121
son
son
שָׁ֑חַר
šāḥar
šˈāḥar
שַׁחַר
subs.m.sg.a
H7837
dawn
of the dawn!
BDB2169 [H1966]
BDB2168 | BIBLICAL HEBREW | BDB2170
הֵילֵל noun masculine appellative shining one, epithet of king of Babylon, בֶּןשָֿׁ֑חַר ׳אֵיךְ נָפַלְתָּ מִשָּׁמַיִם ה Isa 14:12 how art thou fallen, shinning one, son of dawn ! i.e. star of the morning. (compare Assyrian muštilil, epithet of (Venus a) morning-star III R Isa 57:60 OppJAS 1871, 448 SchrSK 1874, 337 COTad. loc.)

הֵילֵ֣ל morning-star בֶּן son שָׁ֑חַר dawn

BSB O Morning Star, son of the dawn!
LEB morning star, son of dawn!
הֵילֵ֣ל[hêylēl / hêlˈēl]
Lexeme: הֵילֵל  Analytical Lexicon
Morphology code: subs.m.sg.a
Morphology: noun, masculine, singular, absolute

Yeah, but "Lucifer" is not really the Hebrew there in Isaiah 14:12, and should never be confused as such. The word 'lucifer' is from the Latin, and means 'light bearer'. It is a title for Satan himself.
 

Johann

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Yeah, but "Lucifer" is not really the Hebrew there in Isaiah 14:12, and should never be confused as such. The word 'lucifer' is from the Latin, and means 'light bearer'. It is a title for Satan himself.
Isa 14:12 HowH349 Interjection ’êḵ אֵ֛יךְ you are fallenH5307 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-2ms nā·p̄al·tā נָפַ֥לְתָּ from the heavens,H8064 Prep-m+N-mp miš·šā·ma·yim מִשָּׁמַ֖יִם O shining one,H1966 N-ms hê·lêl הֵילֵ֣ל N1 sonH1121 N-msc ben- בֶּן־ of the morning!H7837

Isa 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

Isa 14:12 O how [fell from out of the heaven the morning star] -- the one [by morning rising]; [was broken unto the earth the one sending to all the nations].

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from Shomayim, O Heilel Ben Shachar (Bright One of the Dawn, Day Star,)! How art thou cast down to the earth, thou, which hast laid low the Goyim!

Of course it's a title of Nachash/Satan.
Shalom
Johann.
 

Davy

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Isa 14:12 HowH349 Interjection ’êḵ אֵ֛יךְ you are fallenH5307 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-2ms nā·p̄al·tā נָפַ֥לְתָּ from the heavens,H8064 Prep-m+N-mp miš·šā·ma·yim מִשָּׁמַ֖יִם O shining one,H1966 N-ms hê·lêl הֵילֵ֣ל N1 sonH1121 N-msc ben- בֶּן־ of the morning!H7837

Isa 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

Isa 14:12 O how [fell from out of the heaven the morning star] -- the one [by morning rising]; [was broken unto the earth the one sending to all the nations].

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from Shomayim, O Heilel Ben Shachar (Bright One of the Dawn, Day Star,)! How art thou cast down to the earth, thou, which hast laid low the Goyim!

Of course it's a title of Nachash/Satan.
Shalom
Johann.

Yes, the word 'lucifer' (from the Latin) is a title for Satan only. But it is NOT in the Hebrew of Isaiah 14:12, and that's the point.
 

Johann

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Yes, the word 'lucifer' (from the Latin) is a title for Satan only. But it is NOT in the Hebrew of Isaiah 14:12, and that's the point.
Anything "new" you want to tell me? Did I steal your thunder-or do you want to have a last say?

I remember you, we have locked horns in the past-seems it is resurfacing.
J.
 

Davy

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Anything "new" you want to tell me? Did I steal your thunder-or do you want to have a last say?

I remember you, we have locked horns in the past-seems it is resurfacing.
J.
The horn-locking going on here is with you it would seem, with your not willing to recognize what I said. So I'll say it again...

The word 'lucifer' is NOT in the Hebrew of Isaiah 14:12, because it is from the Latin.
 

Johann

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The horn-locking going on here is with you it would seem, with your not willing to recognize what I said. So I'll say it again...

The word 'lucifer' is NOT in the Hebrew of Isaiah 14:12, because it is from the Latin.
And I gave you Scriptures where "Lucifer" is not mentioned in Isa 14:12.

1For the Lord shall have mercy on Jacob and again choose Israel, and He shall place them on their soil, and the strangers shall accompany them and join the House of Jacob. אכִּי֩ יְרַחֵ֨ם יְהֹוָ֜ה אֶת־יַֽעֲקֹ֗ב וּבָחַ֥ר עוֹד֙ בְּיִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל וְהִנִּיחָ֖ם עַל־אַדְמָתָ֑ם וְנִלְוָ֚ה הַגֵּר֙ עֲלֵיהֶ֔ם וְנִסְפְּח֖וּ עַל־בֵּ֥ית יַֽעֲקֹֽב:
2And peoples shall take them and bring them to their place, and the House of Israel shall inherit them on the soil of the Lord, for slaves and maidservants, and they shall be captors to their captors and rule over those who dominate over them. בוּלְקָח֣וּם עַמִּים֘ וֶֽהֱבִיא֣וּם אֶל־מְקוֹמָם֒ וְהִתְנַֽחֲל֣וּם בֵּֽית־יִשְׂרָאֵ֗ל עַל אַדְמַ֣ת יְהֹוָ֔ה לַֽעֲבָדִ֖ים וְלִשְׁפָח֑וֹת וְהָיוּ֙ שֹׁבִ֣ים לְשֹֽׁבֵיהֶ֔ם וְרָד֖וּ בְּנֹֽגְשֵׂיהֶֽם:
3And it shall come to pass on the day the Lord allows you to rest from your sorrow and from your shuddering, and from the hard work that you were made to serve. גוְהָיָ֗ה בְּי֨וֹם הָנִ֚יחַ יְהֹוָה֙ לְךָ֔ מֵֽעָצְבְּךָ֖ וּמִֽרָגְזֶ֑ךָ וּמִן־הָֽעֲבֹדָ֥ה הַקָּשָׁ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר עֻֽבַּד־בָּֽךְ:
4And you shall bear this parable against the king of Babylon, and you shall say, "How has the dominator ceased, has ceased the haughty one! דוְנָשָׂ֜אתָ הַמָּשָׁ֥ל הַזֶּ֛ה עַל־מֶ֥לֶךְ בָּבֶ֖ל וְאָמָ֑רְתָּ אֵיךְ שָׁבַ֣ת נֹגֵ֔שׂ שָֽׁבְתָ֖ה מַדְהֵבָֽה:
5The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked, the rod of the rulers. השָׁבַ֥ר יְהֹוָ֖ה מַטֵּ֣ה רְשָׁעִ֑ים שֵׁ֖בֶט מֹֽשְׁלִֽים:
6Who would smite peoples with wrath, incessant blows, ruling nations with anger, pursued without relenting. ומַכֶּ֚ה עַמִּים֙ בְּעֶבְרָ֔ה מַכַּ֖ת בִּלְתִּ֣י סָרָ֑ה רֹדֶ֚ה בָאַף֙ גּוֹיִ֔ם מֻרְדָּ֖ף בְּלִ֥י חָשָֽׂךְ:
7'All the land rested, became tranquil,' they opened [their mouth] in song. זנָ֥חָה שָֽׁקְטָ֖ה כָּל־הָאָ֑רֶץ פָּֽצְח֖וּ רִנָּֽה:
8Box trees, too, rejoiced at you, the cedars of the Lebanon; 'Since you were laid low, the cutter will not come upon us.' חגַּם־בְּרוֹשִׁ֛ים שָׂמְח֥וּ לְךָ֖ אַֽרְזֵ֣י לְבָנ֑וֹן מֵאָ֣ז שָׁכַ֔בְתָּ לֹֽא־יַֽעֲלֶ֥ה הַכֹּרֵ֖ת עָלֵֽינוּ:
9Gehinnom from beneath quaked for you, toward your arrival; it aroused for you the giants, all the chiefs of the earth; it caused all the kings of the nations to rise from their thrones. טשְׁא֗וֹל מִתַּ֛חַת רָֽגְזָ֥ה לְךָ֖ לִקְרַ֣את בּוֹאֶ֑ךָ עוֹרֵ֨ר לְךָ֚ רְפָאִים֙ כָּל־עַתּ֣וּדֵי אָ֔רֶץ הֵקִים֙ מִכִּֽסְאוֹתָ֔ם כֹּ֖ל מַלְכֵ֥י גוֹיִֽם:
10All of them shall speak up and say to you, 'Have you too become weak like us? Have you become like us?' יכֻּלָּ֣ם יַֽעֲנ֔וּ וְיֹֽאמְר֖וּ אֵלֶ֑יךָ גַּם־אַתָּ֛ה חֻלֵּ֥יתָ כָמ֖וֹנוּ אֵלֵ֥ינוּ נִמְשָֽׁלְתָּ:
11Your pride has been lowered into Gehinnom, the stirring of your psalteries. Maggots are spread under you, and worms cover you. יאהוּרַ֥ד שְׁא֛וֹל גְאוֹנֶ֖ךָ הֶמְיַ֣ת נְבָלֶ֑יךָ תַּחְתֶּ֙יךָ֙ יֻצַּ֣ע רִמָּ֔ה וּמְכַסֶּ֖יךָ תּֽוֹלֵעָֽה:
12How have you fallen from heaven, the morning star? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations. יבאֵ֛יךְ נָפַ֥לְתָּ מִשָּׁמַ֖יִם הֵילֵ֣ל בֶּן־שָּׁ֑חַר נִגְדַּ֣עְתָּ לָאָ֔רֶץ חוֹלֵ֖שׁ עַל־גּוֹיִֽם:

Rashi-

the morning star: This is Venus, which gives light as the morning star, הֵילֵל being derived from יהל, to shed light. This is the lamentation over the heavenly prince of Babylon, who will fall from heaven.

הילל בן שחר: כוכב הנוגה המאיר אור ככוכב הבוקר זו הקינה על שרה של בבל נאמר' שיפול משמים:
You have been cut down to earth: You, Nebuchadnezzar, who would cast lots on nations. You would cast lots on them, on the kings, who of them would serve you on such and such a day, and who on such and such a day. Our Rabbis, however, expounded this to mean that he would cast lots on the kings for purposes of pederasty.

Do you have a problem "hearing" me?
J.
 

Davy

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And I gave you Scriptures where "Lucifer" is not mentioned in Isa 14:12.

1For the Lord shall have mercy on Jacob and again choose Israel, and He shall place them on their soil, and the strangers shall accompany them and join the House of Jacob. אכִּי֩ יְרַחֵ֨ם יְהֹוָ֜ה אֶת־יַֽעֲקֹ֗ב וּבָחַ֥ר עוֹד֙ בְּיִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל וְהִנִּיחָ֖ם עַל־אַדְמָתָ֑ם וְנִלְוָ֚ה הַגֵּר֙ עֲלֵיהֶ֔ם וְנִסְפְּח֖וּ עַל־בֵּ֥ית יַֽעֲקֹֽב:
2And peoples shall take them and bring them to their place, and the House of Israel shall inherit them on the soil of the Lord, for slaves and maidservants, and they shall be captors to their captors and rule over those who dominate over them. בוּלְקָח֣וּם עַמִּים֘ וֶֽהֱבִיא֣וּם אֶל־מְקוֹמָם֒ וְהִתְנַֽחֲל֣וּם בֵּֽית־יִשְׂרָאֵ֗ל עַל אַדְמַ֣ת יְהֹוָ֔ה לַֽעֲבָדִ֖ים וְלִשְׁפָח֑וֹת וְהָיוּ֙ שֹׁבִ֣ים לְשֹֽׁבֵיהֶ֔ם וְרָד֖וּ בְּנֹֽגְשֵׂיהֶֽם:
3And it shall come to pass on the day the Lord allows you to rest from your sorrow and from your shuddering, and from the hard work that you were made to serve. גוְהָיָ֗ה בְּי֨וֹם הָנִ֚יחַ יְהֹוָה֙ לְךָ֔ מֵֽעָצְבְּךָ֖ וּמִֽרָגְזֶ֑ךָ וּמִן־הָֽעֲבֹדָ֥ה הַקָּשָׁ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר עֻֽבַּד־בָּֽךְ:
4And you shall bear this parable against the king of Babylon, and you shall say, "How has the dominator ceased, has ceased the haughty one! דוְנָשָׂ֜אתָ הַמָּשָׁ֥ל הַזֶּ֛ה עַל־מֶ֥לֶךְ בָּבֶ֖ל וְאָמָ֑רְתָּ אֵיךְ שָׁבַ֣ת נֹגֵ֔שׂ שָֽׁבְתָ֖ה מַדְהֵבָֽה:
5The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked, the rod of the rulers. השָׁבַ֥ר יְהֹוָ֖ה מַטֵּ֣ה רְשָׁעִ֑ים שֵׁ֖בֶט מֹֽשְׁלִֽים:
6Who would smite peoples with wrath, incessant blows, ruling nations with anger, pursued without relenting. ומַכֶּ֚ה עַמִּים֙ בְּעֶבְרָ֔ה מַכַּ֖ת בִּלְתִּ֣י סָרָ֑ה רֹדֶ֚ה בָאַף֙ גּוֹיִ֔ם מֻרְדָּ֖ף בְּלִ֥י חָשָֽׂךְ:
7'All the land rested, became tranquil,' they opened [their mouth] in song. זנָ֥חָה שָֽׁקְטָ֖ה כָּל־הָאָ֑רֶץ פָּֽצְח֖וּ רִנָּֽה:
8Box trees, too, rejoiced at you, the cedars of the Lebanon; 'Since you were laid low, the cutter will not come upon us.' חגַּם־בְּרוֹשִׁ֛ים שָׂמְח֥וּ לְךָ֖ אַֽרְזֵ֣י לְבָנ֑וֹן מֵאָ֣ז שָׁכַ֔בְתָּ לֹֽא־יַֽעֲלֶ֥ה הַכֹּרֵ֖ת עָלֵֽינוּ:
9Gehinnom from beneath quaked for you, toward your arrival; it aroused for you the giants, all the chiefs of the earth; it caused all the kings of the nations to rise from their thrones. טשְׁא֗וֹל מִתַּ֛חַת רָֽגְזָ֥ה לְךָ֖ לִקְרַ֣את בּוֹאֶ֑ךָ עוֹרֵ֨ר לְךָ֚ רְפָאִים֙ כָּל־עַתּ֣וּדֵי אָ֔רֶץ הֵקִים֙ מִכִּֽסְאוֹתָ֔ם כֹּ֖ל מַלְכֵ֥י גוֹיִֽם:
10All of them shall speak up and say to you, 'Have you too become weak like us? Have you become like us?' יכֻּלָּ֣ם יַֽעֲנ֔וּ וְיֹֽאמְר֖וּ אֵלֶ֑יךָ גַּם־אַתָּ֛ה חֻלֵּ֥יתָ כָמ֖וֹנוּ אֵלֵ֥ינוּ נִמְשָֽׁלְתָּ:
11Your pride has been lowered into Gehinnom, the stirring of your psalteries. Maggots are spread under you, and worms cover you. יאהוּרַ֥ד שְׁא֛וֹל גְאוֹנֶ֖ךָ הֶמְיַ֣ת נְבָלֶ֑יךָ תַּחְתֶּ֙יךָ֙ יֻצַּ֣ע רִמָּ֔ה וּמְכַסֶּ֖יךָ תּֽוֹלֵעָֽה:
12How have you fallen from heaven, the morning star? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations. יבאֵ֛יךְ נָפַ֥לְתָּ מִשָּׁמַ֖יִם הֵילֵ֣ל בֶּן־שָּׁ֑חַר נִגְדַּ֣עְתָּ לָאָ֔רֶץ חוֹלֵ֖שׁ עַל־גּוֹיִֽם:

Rashi-

the morning star: This is Venus, which gives light as the morning star, הֵילֵל being derived from יהל, to shed light. This is the lamentation over the heavenly prince of Babylon, who will fall from heaven.

הילל בן שחר: כוכב הנוגה המאיר אור ככוכב הבוקר זו הקינה על שרה של בבל נאמר' שיפול משמים:
You have been cut down to earth: You, Nebuchadnezzar, who would cast lots on nations. You would cast lots on them, on the kings, who of them would serve you on such and such a day, and who on such and such a day. Our Rabbis, however, expounded this to mean that he would cast lots on the kings for purposes of pederasty.

Do you have a problem "hearing" me?
J.

I can hear perfectly, so no need for your acting STUCK UP.

But it's OTHERS HERE that have no need for one to try to appear as a scholar, because they need to hear the SIMPLE truth, like I was saying.

So now, can you hear what I said?? The word 'lucifer' is NOT in the Hebrew, but from Latin.
 

Johann

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But it's OTHERS HERE that have no need for one to try to appear as a scholar, because they need to hear the SIMPLE truth, like I was saying.
@Davy is that your wish-to be "like a scholar?" Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
Pride is lurking everywhere-in me and in you, whether you like it or not.

Next please-
J.