Why water into wine?

[Frank N]

Speaking of numerology, seven is widely used as a number of completion. That would fit with the "My time is not yet come."

Some have suggested the 'no wine' represents the barrenness that Christians thought permeated Judaism of the day. Or it could fit in with the popular apocalyptic worldview of the day. Israel has no joy because we are dominated by Rome. As an agent of apocalypse, Jesus would fix that, either as a preacher (convincing Israel to repent therefore God would evict Rome) or as a Zealot (defeating Rome by military action). In context, this would be his formal announcement that he would act in this role. That's supported by "And his disciples believed in him." They were now officially part of a team that would bring about the apocalypse.

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus turning water into wine is not a parable...

you say this, but it can only be a parable to you, who was not a witness, and cannot testify to having witnessed anything similar. Understand that i have no desire to debate whether or not the parable is historical fact, which i understand is all you care about.

But a point here is that as long as you insist upon the story being literally true, and only valuable as history, you will manifest what Scripture outlines in other places as a "water" or even "pablum" interpretation that does not practically serve you in the present, except to justify yourself to yourself in the endless, pointless arguments that you might have over, say, Transubstantiation, or some other completely irrelevant aspect of religious, ritual communion.

 

[bbyrd009]

Where's scripture that says that Jesus turning water into wine has meanings?

even the corrupted Strong's that we have now would indicate the symbolic value of most or all of these terms, water, wine, 6, etc. The proof of the parable can only be realized when manifest in your life, today, for which the story has a valid spiritual application, even if it is not the Bewitched twinkling of the nose one that a logical thinker must arrive at.

Scripture is written so that one might see and not see, for instance. So it becomes incumbent upon you to at least entertain who it is who sees but does not see. Of course the stock answer is "the lost," but then, they are not even looking, right? So that likely lets them out. A more pertinent question is actually "Where's Scripture that says Jesus turning water into wine does not have meanings," and you might compare your symbolic understanding of communion v Christ's literal account of the first communion in this regard; wherein you are not offered a chunk of Christ's arm to gnaw on, nor His actual blood, even though these were both possible at the time.

So then, where is the Scripture that directed you to take that parable symbolically? It is of course accomplished by a soliloquy from Christ, wherein you are to extrapolate that what is meant is basically "eat, breathe, and sleep the concept of Christ," or else it is reduced to a ritual, a little extra protection, maybe, or like a booster shot lol, partaken of a couple of times a year, or the even more profane once a week thing that most people do now.

 

[verzanumi24]

you say this, but it can only be a parable to you, who was not a witness, and cannot testify to having witnessed anything similar. Understand that i have no desire to debate whether or not the parable is historical fact, which i understand is all you care about.

But a point here is that as long as you insist upon the story being literally true, and only valuable as history, you will manifest what Scripture outlines in other places as a "water" or even "pablum" interpretation that does not practically serve you in the present, except to justify yourself to yourself in the endless, pointless arguments that you might have over, say, Transubstantiation, or some other completely irrelevant aspect of religious, ritual communion.

even the corrupted Strong's that we have now would indicate the symbolic value of most or all of these terms, water, wine, 6, etc. The proof of the parable can only be realized when manifest in your life, today, for which the story has a valid spiritual application, even if it is not the Bewitched twinkling of the nose one that a logical thinker must arrive at.

Scripture is written so that one might see and not see, for instance. So it becomes incumbent upon you to at least entertain who it is who sees but does not see. Of course the stock answer is "the lost," but then, they are not even looking, right? So that likely lets them out. A more pertinent question is actually "Where's Scripture that says Jesus turning water into wine does not have meanings," and you might compare your symbolic understanding of communion v Christ's literal account of the first communion in this regard; wherein you are not offered a chunk of Christ's arm to gnaw on, nor His actual blood, even though these were both possible at the time.

So then, where is the Scripture that directed you to take that parable symbolically? It is of course accomplished by a soliloquy from Christ, wherein you are to extrapolate that what is meant is basically "eat, breathe, and sleep the concept of Christ," or else it is reduced to a ritual, a little extra protection, maybe, or like a booster shot lol, partaken of a couple of times a year, or the even more profane once a week thing that most people do now.

Guess what? I'm going to take the wise advice that is written in Proverbs 14:7.

 

[verzanumi24]

you say this, but it can only be a parable to you, who was not a witness, and cannot testify to having witnessed anything similar. Understand that i have no desire to debate whether or not the parable is historical fact, which i understand is all you care about.

But a point here is that as long as you insist upon the story being literally true, and only valuable as history, you will manifest what Scripture outlines in other places as a "water" or even "pablum" interpretation that does not practically serve you in the present, except to justify yourself to yourself in the endless, pointless arguments that you might have over, say, Transubstantiation, or some other completely irrelevant aspect of religious, ritual communion.

i understand all that fine, ok; but i also have come to understand that the version you believe came from a Book written by masters of dialecticism who were interested in nothing other than your spiritual growth, and may also be taken too literally, which does not mean that those stories are still not strictly true in a sense; but what it does mean is that they were written to impart spiritual principles that had to stand the test of time, and see how a strictly historical interpretation, the literal one, keeps the story "dead" in a sense, when you cannot relate it to yourself.

It is about you, that story--whichever one you are reading--and it is about you today, not yesterday or tomorrow.

God can and does work miracles, but at the same time parables that contain symbology such as "dead," wherein we must reflect whether the meaning is "spiritually dead" or "really dead," or even "wine," which is also symbolic in Scripture, should imo be considered for their spiritual value, whereas we are coached only in their literal value.

An example here might be that you have no problem believing that Jesus did not actually like hack off his arm and drain the blood into a cup, and proceed with the First Communion that way, even though His recorded words on the matter suggest exactly that. This should be somewhat of a signpost imo. If you are comfortable taking that symbolically and not literally (so symbolically that Communion now is reduced to a meaningless ritual, imo), then you might at least consider the value in reflecting upon other parables symbolically, for the spiritual values they could afford you right now, in the moment.

i could provide many other examples of where the logic of your position would fail, will fail, for instance if you have been led to believe that Jesus will shortly come riding in on a horse with a sword protruding from His Mouth to save you (again?), yet you are supposedly the Body of Christ. How can both be true?

This God of the Bewitched, who wrinkles His Nose to accomplish miracles in the physical plane, where you have been given sovereignty, simply does not exist, ok. God accomplishes His Purpose on earth through you, and if you are waiting for Jesus to do something else for you, or waiting for the world to change, or for that matter waiting on anything other than God's timing in a matter, then imo it is time to pause and reflect.

Boy, some of the weirdest people are on these kinds of forum. I'm done

 

[bbyrd009]

(yes, now we see the violence inherent in the system)ha look i didn't say that you had to abandon your literal interpretations, by all means keep to them as long as they serve you ok. But there is much evidence in Scripture that one may read water, or wine, and you are not even trained to think in the manner in which Scripture was written; we are logical thinkers, and assume that Scripture can be interpreted logically, when this is simply not true.

Many assertions to this end are made in Scripture, and it is even directly stated that it is when one claims to know something that they are the most astray. Any doctrine that you might hold dear, every one has its competing doctrine, supported by Scripture.

You cannot explain both "8provide for your family" and "27don't work for food" logically, no matter how hard you try; or bam be my guest and try. Your literal interpretation is cute, and advertises where you are in your understanding, which imo is the power of Scripture, as i can only do the same myself.

But consider your position here; we are called to manifest the spiritual into the physical, and symbolism is imo the primary means by which to convey information of that nature; it is why Christ spoke in parables.

Guess what? I'm going to take the wise advice that is written in Proverbs 14:7.

"believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it...unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense" Buddha so by all means do as you see fit.

Proverbs 14:7 hilarious lol. Can you read my palm too?

 

[twinc]

what has been missed and completely ignored is that what His mother says is completely ignored viz do as He says and what He also says and as has already been stated it was/is only when we like the servants without question accept and 'do this is memory of me' that the water turns into wine and the wine into blood - here we also have not just the relevance of the number 6 but Jn 6:66 - the best wine has indeed been kept till the last - twinc

 

[Truth]

Have you ever considered the type of water pots these were, they were ceremonial water pots used by the Pharisees in their man made religious system. If you look at our Saviors actions when He is refuting these Religious leaders in his time in his Ministry you will find that he was tearing down their rules and regulations, and our heavenly Father was validating His authority with the miracles like water into wine. also according to Rabbi-tic tradition these pots would be defiled by the wine.

 

[Marymog]

Have you ever wondered why Jesus changed water into wine as His first miracle?

When you think of it, the majority of the people at the wedding didn’t even know he did it. The servants knew and perhaps His disciples did, but certainly the festive crowd didn’t. So what was the reason for that? Why not heel 10 lepers? That would have been spectacular. Or, what about delivering a demonized individual? That could have been more sensational. Better still, Jesus could have raised a dead person. Now that’s what I call dramatic.

Nope, Jesus changed water into wine. Hmm! Is there maybe more to that than meets the eye. Let’s have a look.

When the wine ran out, Jesus told the servant to fill 6 waterpots with water. We are told that these pots were made of stone. In this command we can glean four pieces of information.

The number 6,
The Waterpots, which were made of
Stone, and then
The Water

Numbers in scripture are significant. They are there for a reason. In our story, the number 6 symbolizes MAN who was created on the 6 day. It is also found elsewhere in scripture. Such as in (Revelation 13:18|) when identifying the MAN of sin with 666.

Waterpots = Containers or vessels. These also relate to MAN who often is identified as a vessel. See (1Thess. 4:4, 1Peter 3:7)

Stone – Note that the scriptures do not characterize the waterpots as made of clay which was the most common at the time. These waterpots are specifically made of stone which, for us, should remind us of the heart of MAN, a heart of stone that changes to a heart of flesh at the touch of the Master. (2Cor. 3:3)

Finally, the water signifies the life of MAN as explained by Jesus to Nicodemus. People must be born of water and of Spirit. (John 3:5)

So what we are seeing in this miracle is an allegory of what the ministry of Jesus is all about. He came to transform these vessels of stone and water into vessel of flesh and fill them with the presence of His Spirit, which in this case is depicted as the New Wine. This can be done through Hid death and resurrection which by the way was on the third day. Did you notice, in verse 1, when this wedding celebration occurred?

Yes, He could have He could have healed ten lepers showing His power over sickness and pain, he could have rebuke a demon showing His power over evil and His enemy or He could have raised the dead proving He was greater than death, the destiny of sinners. However, Jesus came for a higher purpose. That purpose was redemption which eventually would cover all kinds of miracles. So He changed water into wine.

The final noteworthy item in this story is the servants conduct. These servants are likened unto us, who in faith and obedience, follow through at the words of Jesus and received the miracle of changed water into wine. However, we are also called to take that new wine of the Spirit and pour it into the lives of others. We are to become the Bordeaux of benevolence, the Merlots of mercy and the Rosées of reconciliation.

Bravo Sir! Very well done.

Interesting side note: Jesus first miracle, which revealed himself to the world, was performed at the request of his Mother (honor thy father and mother).

Jesus told her it wasn't his time yet but Mary knew it was his time. I wonder how Mary knew but Jesus didn't?

It was performed "on the third day" which was the day of his public revelation and day of resurrection.

It was done at a wedding which also, in my opinion, shows the importance of marriage (one man/one woman) in scripture.

My two cents worth...Mary

 

[perrero]

Interesting side note: Jesus first miracle, which revealed himself to the world, was performed at the request of his Mother (honor thy father and mother).

I do like this.

Jesus told her it wasn't his time yet but Mary knew it was his time. I wonder how Mary knew but Jesus didn't?

Not so sure she knew it was His time as opposed to that she knew He had the power to do something about it.

It was performed "on the third day" which was the day of his public revelation and day of resurrection.

Yes, I did allude to that in the OP.

It was done at a wedding which also, in my opinion, shows the importance of marriage (one man/one woman) in scripture.

I would like to think that the hidden message of salvation, done on a wedding day would point towards the reward of a wedding to come, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb"
Just saying!

Thanks for your comments. Two cents is still worth something.

Check out my other Teachings if you liked this one.
Who was the Good samaritan?

Is there a recipe for discipleship?

How fast are you going?

The Crucible of Fire

 

[skyangel]

Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Matt 9 :17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Mar 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

Luke 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

It is interesting to note that wine can be intoxicating and cause deceptions. It is also interesting to note that there are many deceptions and false doctrines in religions of the world today including those who claim to be filled with the "spiritual wine"
Many people claim to be filled with the spirit but are indeed deceived by the spirit within them. What they think is light within them is actually darkness. Matt 6:23
It is also interesting to note that new wine must be put into new bottles.
Bottles are vessels and it is interesting to note that many "vessels" seem to believe that the "spiritual new wine" is placed in their old fleshly bodies as they insist they have not yet been changed into new vessels or new bottles. They don't seem to believe they will be changed till after they physically die.

 

[Truth]

First I would like to say, I am not a Scholar of biblical study's, I have not gone to Seminary, I was lucky to graduate High School. So if I am gullible enough to see that the scriptures Identify these water pots! as water pots of stone, [according to the manner of purification of the Jews]. then I have to ask why was it Important to Identify these stone water pots, why not just say there were six water pots there. Then in John 2:7 our Savior says, "Fill the water pots with water." And they [ the servants] filled them up to the brim. In the Talmud [chillin 26b] the instructions about these water pots, reads- fill them to the brim. Maybe this is just a coincidence, maybe not. Truth, our Savior began His Ministry in a time when the Hebrew leaders had departed from Moses, and had implemented their own Religion. Adding to and taking away from the instructions of God through Moses. Again every Miracle was a validation of our Saviors authority in the true Faith, over the man made Religion of the Pharisees.

 

[perrero]

Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Matt 9 :17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Mar 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

Luke 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

It is interesting to note that wine can be intoxicating and cause deceptions. It is also interesting to note that there are many deceptions and false doctrines in religions of the world today including those who claim to be filled with the "spiritual wine"
Many people claim to be filled with the spirit but are indeed deceived by the spirit within them. What they think is light within them is actually darkness. Matt 6:23
It is also interesting to note that new wine must be put into new bottles.
Bottles are vessels and it is interesting to note that many "vessels" seem to believe that the "spiritual new wine" is placed in their old fleshly bodies as they insist they have not yet been changed into new vessels or new bottles. They don't seem to believe they will be changed till after they physically die.

This Forum is for Christians only.
From your past involvement in the church and biblical studies, you bring a lot of knowledge to these discussions but a wolf in sheep's clothing only seeks to destroy.
You need to deal with what turned you from God and not try to muddy the waters of these discussions.God still has a great plan for your life but He will not force your hand. You still will have to humble yourself before Him.
In the mean time, I will not contend with you.

 

[skyangel]

This Forum is for Christians only.
From your past involvement in the church and biblical studies, you bring a lot of knowledge to these discussions but a wolf in sheep's clothing only seeks to destroy.
You need to deal with what turned you from God and not try to muddy the waters of these discussions.God still has a great plan for your life but He will not force your hand. You still will have to humble yourself before Him.
In the mean time, I will not contend with you.

Do I look like a sheep to you or do I look like a wolf on all outward appearances?
What makes you think or believe I turned away from God?
What exactly about my previous post is upsetting you and causing you to fear the destruction of something?
You talk of wolves in sheeps clothing but have you ever considered a sheep in wolfs clothing?
That sheep in wolves clothing APPEARS to be a destroyer too but are they? The Pharisees thought Jesus was evil remember. They saw a wolf in sheeps clothing too.

False doctrines need to be destroyed and only Truth can destroy them. Lies cannot destroy lies.
Darkness needs to be destroyed and only LIGHT can destroy it. Darkness cannot destroy darkness.
Therefore in a sense Truth and Light are destroyers. They destroy the delusions of the gullible people who have been led astray by their false doctrines and self deceptions.

I turned away from idolising a man as God. I came to the revelation that God is not an individual man neither the son of man but God is a SPIRIT which is in innumerable bodies of flesh on Earth Yesterday Today and forever. If you need the scripture references to support that statement I will give them to you.

You have nothing to fear from me. If I am darkness and you are light, darkness cannot destroy you or your light no matter how hard it tries. IF I am light and you fear me then you must be darkness. Light is not afraid of darkness and it never rejects it. Light does not push darkness away in order to destroy it. It embraces it in order to turn it into light because that is the nature of Light.

What do you want to find on forums,... sheep in sheeps clothing who simply follow what you say and never question you?

Why do you think Jesus APPEARED to turn water into wine? When exactly did the stone WATERpots fill with wine? Jesus never put wine in the pots but told the servants to fill those pots with WATER and what they drew out was still water.
If the pots had wine in them in the first place and all the wine was already gone, how drunk do you suppose the people at the feast were? If you give an intoxicated person fresh water to drink, they might be so intoxicated that they can't even tell if its wine or water.


Anyway, why do you think that some people perceive the wine to be symbolic of the Holy Spirit when the bible warns people against drinking wine due to its intoxicating nature?
You said ". He came to transform these vessels of stone and water into vessel of flesh and fill them with the presence of His Spirit, which in this case is depicted as the New Wine.".
Jesus never told anyone to fill the pots with wine. He told them to fill the pots with water which seemed to be wine to those who drank it but isn't it possible that were they so intoxicated by the wine they had already consumed that they could not tell the difference once they tasted the water?
Many professing believers today cannot tell the difference between the True Christ and a false Christ. They cannot tell the difference between darkness and light. They claim to have light in them but the light in them is actually darkness.

 

[perrero]

Do I look like a sheep to you or do I look like a wolf on all outward appearances?
What makes you think or believe I turned away from God?
What exactly about my previous post is upsetting you and causing you to fear the destruction of something?
You talk of wolves in sheeps clothing but have you ever considered a sheep in wolfs clothing?
That sheep in wolves clothing APPEARS to be a destroyer too but are they? The Pharisees thought Jesus was evil remember. They saw a wolf in sheeps clothing too.

False doctrines need to be destroyed and only Truth can destroy them. Lies cannot destroy lies.
Darkness needs to be destroyed and only LIGHT can destroy it. Darkness cannot destroy darkness.
Therefore in a sense Truth and Light are destroyers. They destroy the delusions of the gullible people who have been led astray by their false doctrines and self deceptions.

I turned away from idolising a man as God. I came to the revelation that God is not an individual man neither the son of man but God is a SPIRIT which is in innumerable bodies of flesh on Earth Yesterday Today and forever. If you need the scripture references to support that statement I will give them to you.

You have nothing to fear from me. If I am darkness and you are light, darkness cannot destroy you or your light no matter how hard it tries. IF I am light and you fear me then you must be darkness. Light is not afraid of darkness and it never rejects it. Light does not push darkness away in order to destroy it. It embraces it in order to turn it into light because that is the nature of Light.

What do you want to find on forums,... sheep in sheeps clothing who simply follow what you say and never question you?

Why do you think Jesus APPEARED to turn water into wine? When exactly did the stone WATERpots fill with wine? Jesus never put wine in the pots but told the servants to fill those pots with WATER and what they drew out was still water.
If the pots had wine in them in the first place and all the wine was already gone, how drunk do you suppose the people at the feast were? If you give an intoxicated person fresh water to drink, they might be so intoxicated that they can't even tell if its wine or water.


Anyway, why do you think that some people perceive the wine to be symbolic of the Holy Spirit when the bible warns people against drinking wine due to its intoxicating nature?
You said ". He came to transform these vessels of stone and water into vessel of flesh and fill them with the presence of His Spirit, which in this case is depicted as the New Wine.".
Jesus never told anyone to fill the pots with wine. He told them to fill the pots with water which seemed to be wine to those who drank it but isn't it possible that were they so intoxicated by the wine they had already consumed that they could not tell the difference once they tasted the water?
Many professing believers today cannot tell the difference between the True Christ and a false Christ. They cannot tell the difference between darkness and light. They claim to have light in them but the light in them is actually darkness.

I certainly do not fear you. But I did not join the forums to tear down the faith of people. I post so that people will gain more knowledge and understanding of the Trinity, God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. I choose to teach here in order to enrich peoples lives.

Your personal theology, which is not a theology, because you do not believe in God. You believe, as your signature, that "God is an anthropomorphism of the powers of the universe." Such belief is destructive and darkness. I know that because I've been exactly where you are. I used to believe the same kind of rubbish. But deep down inside my spirit knew full well that it was my own contrived belief and that it had no truth to it. So you can continue on with your magic carpet ride and your mystic beliefs and we will see how they hold up on judgement day.

Oh BTW, the water that was drawn was first served to the Governor of the feast, and he wasn't to drunk to notice that the wine was the best wine yet and proceeded to share this to the bridegroom. he miracle did happen whether you like it or not.
Don't try to change the story as recounted by inserting your godless naturalistic philosophy by explaining away what the Word of God says is true.

 

[skyangel]

I certainly do not fear you. But I did not join the forums to tear down the faith of people. I post so that people will gain more knowledge and understanding of the Trinity, God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. I choose to teach here in order to enrich peoples lives.

I understand your heart is in the right place and you are doing what you believe is correct and you are teaching what you believe is true. However, all people who believe false doctrines, sincerely believe those doctrines are true and they seem to refuse to even want to consider the possibility that they are teaching errors and false doctrines or the possibility that they have been led astray to follow a false Christ. They seem to be so stuck in their ways that they simply just reject anything or anyone that challenges their doctrines at all.
The trinity doctrine for example is something carnal minded people have gathered from the bible and simply cherry pick scriptures to make the doctrine fit. It is a paganistic concept which has infiltrated Christianity and defiled the Truth.
google "Trinity pagan origins" and learn something.

Your personal theology, which is not a theology, because you do not believe in God. You believe, as your signature, that "God is an anthropomorphism of the powers of the universe." Such belief is destructive and darkness. I know that because I've been exactly where you are. I used to believe the same kind of rubbish. But deep down inside my spirit knew full well that it was my own contrived belief and that it had no truth to it. So you can continue on with your magic carpet ride and your mystic beliefs and we will see how they hold up on judgement day.

But I do believe in the very real God who is always on Earth in the flesh and very visible to those who have eyes to see. I mean literally physically visible with physical eyes as well as with spiritual eyes. I see God both ways, physically with my physical eyes as well as spiritually with spiritual eyes. I see God in that LIGHT as the LIGHT because I do not live and walk in darkness. I live and walk in the LIGHT. I do not believe in some mysterious invisible God which can never be seen by any mortal man. I believe all such invisible characters with supernatural powers are as mythical as all the mythical Greek Gods, Zeus, Oden, etc.
I believe judgment day is every day for all eternity since in God there is no time, just eternity and Psalm 7:11 says God judges every day. If that is true, how can anyone claim that judgment day is just one single day some time in the future? People who believe that some pending judgment is a future event are fooling themselves and need to take a good at themselves and judge themselves today.
No invisible God will judge you some time in the future. God judges you and me the same way every day as righteous or wicked and our own words and actions either justify or condemn us since the Father does not judge any man ( John 5:22) and neither does Jesus. ( John 12:47)
So who or what judges us? It is the WORD which comes from our very own mouth which judges us not the WORD of someone else or what comes from someone elses mouth.
Matt 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Therefore you can continue to threaten sinners and unbelievers with judgment all you like but ultimately your own judgment and threats judge you because as you see above the Father does not judge and neither does Jesus judge anyone who does not believe him because he came to save them not to judge them.
Matt 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Therefore take a good look at the judgment you made against me and apply those words to yourself. Those very words judge you.
You may have believed rubbish at one stage of your life but you only replaced one lot of garbage with another lot of garbage.

Oh BTW, the water that was drawn was first served to the Governor of the feast, and he wasn't to drunk to notice that the wine was the best wine yet and proceeded to share this to the bridegroom. he miracle did happen whether you like it or not.
Don't try to change the story as recounted by inserting your godless naturalistic philosophy by explaining away what the Word of God says is true.

I see the "miracle" in the story as being a parable and referring to something spiritual that can be applied to everyone every day of the past present and future. I am not gullible enough to believe it was a physical event that happened only once in history. No physical water ever magically turns into wine in reality. People who cause such things to APPEAR to happen are illusionists and GOD is the greatest illusionist of all. He can APPEAR to be evil when he is not and he can and does cause people to believe lies just like any Earthly illusionist can and does. He clearly tells people that he does these things but they are still fooled by the illusions and can't see the Truth in front of them because they have no love for REAL Truth. They love their fantasies and false doctrines and false Christ a lot more than the TRUTH which stands in front of them daily in the flesh.
2 Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
For what cause?
2 Thess 2 :10 .... because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Feel free to preach and teach what you believe to be true. No one will condemn you for doing what you believe is good and right but I am here to make you aware that God is not a trinity and God is not an invisible Father figure in the form of a man in the sky.
To worship such an invisible character is no better or wiser than worshipping Zeus. To confine God to some trinity is also very foolish when you understand that God is ALL and IN ALL.( Eph 4:6 ) Does the word ALL mean three of something or Trinty? I am sure a smart man like you can figure that out.

 

[skyangel]

This Forum is for Christians only.

It is a very prejudice, pious and self righteous attitude to have a forum for Christians only. It is like a cafe for "whites only" as they reject all "black people" as if they were somehow trash and unworthy of communicating with them and want to throw them out of their special "elite" cafe. It might as well be called a forum for Pharisees only. I doubt Jesus would make a forum like that since he ate and drank with the sinners that the Pharisees refused to eat and drink with.

I certainly do not fear you. But I did not join the forums to tear down the faith of people.

Neither did I. I joined to bring LIGHT to the darkness. That does however tend to tear down darkness in the process. Such is the nature of LIGHT as it embraces the darkness.
If people have faith in a false Christ, would you not want to tear down that false faith and replace it with real faith in a REAL Christ that a person can actually see on Earth in the flesh Yesterday TODAY and Tomorrow?
OR do you think it is a good thing to let people continue to worship a false Christ and say nothing about it to them that might make them feel uncomfortable?

 

[Marymog]

Dear perrero,

Since you are not so sure she knew it was His time as opposed to that she knew He had the power to do something about it I will try to help you be sure.

I agree with you that she knew he had the power to do something about it because by the time this happened Jesus was 30 years old. I am sure that Jesus and Mary were in similar situations BEFORE this that she could have convinced Him to reveal himself. She OBVIOUSLY knew it was FINALLY his time and she pulled out the mother card. Mary didn't discuss it with him our argue with him. Mary simply said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you". Jesus, being a good son and Jew who knows the 5th commandment, knew dang well he better do something so he wouldn't show dishonor to his Mother ESPECIALLY in a public setting at a wedding.

Scripture doesn't say that God (his father) spoke directly to Jesus and told him 'it is your hour'. It says OPPOSITE of that. It says that Jesus DIDN'T think it was 'his hour' and that Mary (his mother) revealed to Him that it was 'his time'.

She was telling Jesus 'it is your time' by telling the servants 'do whatever he tells you'.

I apologize. You did allude to the 3 day thing in your OP!

My two cents worth......Mary