Will there be a Rapture?
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Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Oh, boy.
Hotly debated topic. My answer is no. It occurs after the tribulation but before the wrath of God commences, and that statement right there will warrant me several responses wanting to debate over it. I'm not in the mood right now, just telling you that you are likely about to get a bunch of different responses to this question.
God bless, and best of luck.
DancesWithGnostics
Well-Known Member
rapture is not pre=trib - it's at the last trumpet
1Co 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
There is no rapture. According to Romans 6:3-5 and 1 Corinthians 15:35, 36, 44 those who are born again or anointed ones those who will be Kings, judges and priest's with Jesus in that Messianic Kingdom must die before they can gain heavenly life. The ones who are caught up in the clouds as stated at 1Thessalonians 4:17, verse 15 of those scriptures explains that they are faithful ones "who are left until the coming
of the Lord,” that is, they are still living at the time of Christ’s coming. According to Romans 6:3-5 and 1 Corinthians 15:35, 36, 44 they must die before they can gain heavenly life. But there is no need for them to remain in the death state awaiting Christ’s return, as those who were dead in the lord had to wait sleeping in death until the resurrection began. Instead those who are still living who are to be with those in heaven when they die, they will instantly be “caught up,” “in the twinkling of an eye,” to be with the Lord at the moment of their death. 1 Cor. 15:51, 52; Revelation 14:13.
Oh boy! A pre-trib rapture thread!
No. There is no explicit statement of when those "in Christ" will be caught up. But when you rule out all the possibilities for when it can be, you are left with only one that does not conflict, and does harmonize, and that's pre-trib.
Those who disagree will inevitably come to a verse of which they will have to say, "It SAYS that, but it MEANS this." I don't read the Bible that way myself.
Much love!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Yes and the proof requires some digging. there are only two things in the bible that God pours out his wrath on:
1. Sin in general
2. Teh 70th week of Daniel which we colloquially call the great tribulation.
Not only does REv. 5 call teh 70 th week the wrath of god, but several times in the revelation is it called God pouring out His wrath on the earth. Also several times in teh OT is this time called or named including gods wrath.
Teh lake of fire is never called Gods' wrath. then we have Paul showing us this:
1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
The rapture is the great taking away and that taking away is to deliver us from the wrath to come. So 1+1=2
Thessalonians
“Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day [the day of the Lord]1 shall not come except the departure come first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.”
Pay close attention to "departure" That Greek word used in the text has several forms and strictly involves the act or word departure/
Notice that Paul specifically tells you the day of the Lord comes after the reveal of man of sin. The antichrist is revealed and the church removed. The only way to deceive all the nations instantly, involves an event so massive it gets everyone's attention. UFO, One World Government led by an individual that deceives Israel.
Instead of debating pre or post trib ......wouldn't the most prudent thing be to prepared, thus Rapture ready?
Does it matter what you believe and what I believe? Only that the Bible speaks of an event involving the removal of the church.
The entire "Left Behind" series was based on a pre trib event.
Deceiving the nations involves a massive event so traumatic that those left behind have been already set up for the event.
I can lean to one major event ..... Aliens or UFO's combined with the departure of Christians and children worldwide at the same time. Aliens would be blamed for the event and the one world government guarantee everyone left can be protected. The belief in aliens and UFO's climb steadily by the day.
Having studied this for years .....My favorite saying created on my own.
"Following the Great Rapture. Churches will be filled with pew sitters holding down pew cushions, looking around and wondering aloud. What just happened." Unfortunately many of those churches will have the platform and pulpits manned by the Pastors of those churches."
In the end .....does it really matter when the rapture takes place? Be vigilant, prepared and ever ready.
“Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day [the day of the Lord]1 shall not come except the departure come first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.”
Pay close attention to "departure" That Greek word used in the text has several forms and strictly involves the act or word departure/
Notice that Paul specifically tells you the day of the Lord comes after the reveal of man of sin. The antichrist is revealed and the church removed. The only way to deceive all the nations instantly, involves an event so massive it gets everyone's attention. UFO, One World Government led by an individual that deceives Israel.
Instead of debating pre or post trib ......wouldn't the most prudent thing be to prepared, thus Rapture ready?
Does it matter what you believe and what I believe? Only that the Bible speaks of an event involving the removal of the church.
The entire "Left Behind" series was based on a pre trib event.
Deceiving the nations involves a massive event so traumatic that those left behind have been already set up for the event.
I can lean to one major event ..... Aliens or UFO's combined with the departure of Christians and children worldwide at the same time. Aliens would be blamed for the event and the one world government guarantee everyone left can be protected. The belief in aliens and UFO's climb steadily by the day.
Having studied this for years .....My favorite saying created on my own.
"Following the Great Rapture. Churches will be filled with pew sitters holding down pew cushions, looking around and wondering aloud. What just happened." Unfortunately many of those churches will have the platform and pulpits manned by the Pastors of those churches."
In the end .....does it really matter when the rapture takes place? Be vigilant, prepared and ever ready.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I worry more about whether or not I could survive Judgment Day, should it come in the next few minutes.
Paul spoke of it as occurring at the last trump. Now go to the last trumpet and see it for yourself.
The typical rapture description is here, 1 Thessalonians 4
v15 Notice this is the coming of the Lord, which is the second coming. Both letters to the Thessalonians have a central theme, which is the returning of Christ a second time, and what will happen around that time.
v16, this is not a secret coming, there are shouts, voice of a loud angel, trumpets, so an announcement. The Trumpet signifies what exactly? Used in war, it is meant for
ALL to hear, both friend and foe alike.
The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
"that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord"
there will be some believers still alive at the end of the tribulation period, and when Christ returns for the church , it means OUR SALVATION, from the troubles of that time.
Example, Hebrews 9
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Example, 1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
v15 Notice this is the coming of the Lord, which is the second coming. Both letters to the Thessalonians have a central theme, which is the returning of Christ a second time, and what will happen around that time.
v16, this is not a secret coming, there are shouts, voice of a loud angel, trumpets, so an announcement. The Trumpet signifies what exactly? Used in war, it is meant for
ALL to hear, both friend and foe alike.
The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
"that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord"
there will be some believers still alive at the end of the tribulation period, and when Christ returns for the church , it means OUR SALVATION, from the troubles of that time.
Example, Hebrews 9
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Example, 1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
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